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Old 12-08-2019, 09:56 AM
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We have portable type water filters in our bags but here in the desert puddles are hard to find!! We have bottled water in them I change out every Spring and Fall. They tolerate the freezing temps OK but what I'm worried about is leaching from the plastic in a super hot car in the summer.

I bought some aluminum water bottles for summer but will freeze and break in the winter. So I'm thinking aluminum in Spring and plastic in Fall. Now I'm worried about possible leaching in the Winter. Is that possible?

Is there a water bottle good for year round use able to tolerate the extreme changes in weather?Should I change out the water more often?

Thanks for any input.
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:14 AM
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Water is cheap from the tap, change it often. I have several stainless steel water bottles, the teflon o-ring is the only non stainless material that contacts the water. I have several plastic water jugs for the truck in case it over heats or blows a hose.

During the summer I use frozen water bottles in the ice chest in the back of the truck to moderate the temp for the stored supplies in the ice chest. I rotate them to the freezer daily. I also use the frozen bottles in the grocery store ice chest for bring home my supplies. Really helps keep the food fresh for the 100 degree hour long trip home.

During the winter I sometime use my stainless steel thermos with hot tea.
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Old 12-08-2019, 11:15 AM
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During a previous job I tested the groundwater for contamination. I could keep a water bottle from freezing by just keeping it in the cab of a two door pick up. Temps would drop to the teens during the day and high 20’s at night and easily last a weekend without freezing solid. If you put your water in a stainless container in a cooler then it most likely won’t freeze for a long time. Especially if you filled them from the hot water tap.
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Old 12-08-2019, 12:24 PM
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be aware that "aluminum bottles" can leech bad chems… ....stainless steel is a better choice
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Old 12-08-2019, 12:42 PM
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Aluminum tastes bad, too. That's why they plastic coat the bottles and add a brass thread to the top. So you can't hardly boil water in it. Get stainless steel.
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Old 12-08-2019, 01:48 PM
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I keep a bunch of those lifeboat emergency water pouches in my car year-round (hot summers and cold winters). They can handle being frozen with no problem, but like any plastic (polymer foil pouches, in this case) they'll eventually break down in excessive heat, so I rotate them every 2-3 years.

https://www.amazon.com/DATREX-Emerge...EXM?th=1&psc=1

This is in additional to a couple of filled water bottles.
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Old 12-08-2019, 03:29 PM
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Mt GHB has a filter and a cup for boiling water. I have water with me but not as a plan to get me home from everywhere I may go.
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Old 12-08-2019, 07:30 PM
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Plastic leaching is a function of the type of plastic used.

Grocery store clear bottles are bad. Dedicated plastic canteens are safe.

https://www.amazon.com/Military-issu.../dp/B008E8EEEI

Something like this is safe in the heat, easy to sling, and holds a half day of water for daylight desert walking in summer.

Winter weather or night walking it could be stretched to a whole day.


Or look into collapsible silicone water bottles. They might not come in much more than 20oz bottles, but once empty they fold up to 1/4 of the space and are 100% safe in all weather.

Here are a couple of examples:
https://www.amazon.com/mountop-Colla.../dp/B07PTY7LCH
https://www.amazon.com/Baiji-Bottle-.../dp/B00UGQBTP8
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Old 12-11-2019, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Plastic leaching is a function of the type of plastic used.

Grocery store clear bottles are bad. Dedicated plastic canteens are safe.

https://www.amazon.com/Military-issu.../dp/B008E8EEEI

Something like this is safe in the heat, easy to sling, and holds a half day of water for daylight desert walking in summer.

Winter weather or night walking it could be stretched to a whole day.


Or look into collapsible silicone water bottles. They might not come in much more than 20oz bottles, but once empty they fold up to 1/4 of the space and are 100% safe in all weather.

Here are a couple of examples:
https://www.amazon.com/mountop-Colla.../dp/B07PTY7LCH
https://www.amazon.com/Baiji-Bottle-.../dp/B00UGQBTP8
I decided on these canteens. I drank from plastic canteens for over a year in Vietnam. I don't know why I didn't think of it. Thanks again!!
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Old 12-24-2019, 10:14 PM
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Switch to BPA free Nalgene's and buy an insulating sleeve for them. It will prevent freezing and get rid of the "plastic" taste. I like and have stainless steel bottles but sometimes when not being careful in winter, it can freeze to one's lips when sipping. Silicon bottles tasted rubbery to me, YMMV.
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Old 12-24-2019, 11:11 PM
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Switch to BPA free......
This is such a scam. Most plastics never even used BPA in the first place. The ones that did now use other plasticizers that are arguably just as hazardous, or are just so new that we don't have a clue if they are dangerous.

Your average thermal cash register tape has far more BPA than those bottles did. Every time the cashier hands you your receipt you poison yourself with BPA.

Nalgene bottles are not the cure. You want food grade polyethylene or polypropylene instead. They never needed a risky plasticizer. Old Nalgene had BPA and new Nalgene uses chemicals we don't even know their long term effects.

Good old military style canteens have always been made from polyethylene, once the government quit using metal canteens. A 70 year track record of safe use by millions of servicemen.

Don't buy into the BPA-free hype. In most cases it wasn't there to begin with. Where it was it can still be very risky from other chemicals. And it makes you think you are safe. A common 20oz soda bottle is PET plastic that never used BPA, but poisons you with antimony. The BPA-free thing is just an advertising gimmick that plays on fears. It's like calling lettuce fat-free or sugar-free. Just a duh moment for those who understand and only there to pat idiots on the head.
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Old 12-25-2019, 05:57 PM
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I only mentioned Nalgene's as one option, having a resistance (in an insulating sleeve) to freezing temperatures, not having a "plastic" taste after long term storage (unlike those grocery store plastic water bottles like Dasani or Poland Spring), and also not having BPA, which was one of the more feared leaching elements and a subject of lawsuits and FDA investigations (though BPA, just like aluminum, was never declared by the FDA as totally unsafe and is still in use). These factors appeared to be the initial concerns to me in this thread's start.

I would ultimately not consider any petroleum derived plastic safe from leaching under extreme temperatures (especially heat). If one is so concerned of it, just use glass or ceramic/other pottery (talk about a proven track record ) in a protective sleeve.

I've used the traditional plastic canteens. They're fine too. I am not too crazy about their "irregular" shape, still find them having a "plasticky" smell or taste, and that most of them are not clear/see-thru.
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Old 12-25-2019, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilgar View Post
I only mentioned Nalgene's as one option, having a resistance (in an insulating sleeve) to freezing temperatures, not having a "plastic" taste after long term storage (unlike those grocery store plastic water bottles like Dasani or Poland Spring), and also not having BPA, which was one of the more feared leaching elements and a subject of lawsuits and FDA investigations (though BPA, just like aluminum, was never declared by the FDA as totally unsafe and is still in use). These factors appeared to be the initial concerns to me in this thread's start.

I would ultimately not consider any petroleum derived plastic safe from leaching under extreme temperatures (especially heat). If one is so concerned of it, just use glass or ceramic/other pottery (talk about a proven track record ) in a protective sleeve.

I've used the traditional plastic canteens. They're fine too. I am not too crazy about their "irregular" shape, still find them having a "plasticky" smell or taste, and that most of them are not clear/see-thru.
The truly safe plastics are never clear. Polyethylene and polypropylene are translucent at best.

Go look at an Arizona Tea or milk gallon jug to see as good as clear gets with the safe plastics.

The PET (soda bottles) and polycarbonate (nalgene) products are all known to give off unsafe or unknown byproducts.


The odd shape of US military 1 liter canteens is due to having them hanging off the belt and having no pointed edges while running.

The 2 liter versions that have a strapped bag are about as close to square as you can get.
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Old 12-25-2019, 10:14 PM
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Zeke does the reading before class
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Old 12-25-2019, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilgar View Post
I only mentioned Nalgene's as one option, having a resistance (in an insulating sleeve) to freezing temperatures, not having a "plastic" taste after long term storage (unlike those grocery store plastic water bottles like Dasani or Poland Spring), and also not having BPA, which was one of the more feared leaching elements and a subject of lawsuits and FDA investigations (though BPA, just like aluminum, was never declared by the FDA as totally unsafe and is still in use). These factors appeared to be the initial concerns to me in this thread's start.

I would ultimately not consider any petroleum derived plastic safe from leaching under extreme temperatures (especially heat). If one is so concerned of it, just use glass or ceramic/other pottery (talk about a proven track record ) in a protective sleeve.

I've used the traditional plastic canteens. They're fine too. I am not too crazy about their "irregular" shape, still find them having a "plasticky" smell or taste, and that most of them are not clear/see-thru.
THe only thing companies did by replacing BPA with other plastics is to cause another type of illness that will take another 10 years to figure out whats causing it.

There is nothing wrong with BPA either. It was when people were exposing containers to high temps in the dishwasher that caused the leaching. That and acid food in BPA lined cans IIRC

The best solution is to not leave your water containers in high temps, like in the car in the summer.

To the OP. In cold months, simply dump 10 to 15% of the water from the container and that will solve the problem of bursting. Water only expands 9% when it freezes
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Old 12-26-2019, 02:06 AM
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I have empty bladders in my GHB and a sawyer filter.
The way I figure it, most of the places I travel around town are near restaurants and if things go bad I can fill the bags and then hit the road. If I am traveling out of town I have several gallons of water in the vehicle. ( car, motorcycle, truck)
While I travel any distance I scan the way ahead to see what there is in the terrain and what resources I might find.
Being a desert finding water is difficult but with all the irrigation round some times pipes can have residual water left inside. though it may not be potable it can be filtered and boiled. I also carry a large trash bag that can be used in collecting rainwater or steam it off the earth. I have surgical tubing for my slingshot for drawing the water from the receiving cup.
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Old 12-26-2019, 12:38 PM
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you can buy a jug of spring water from walmart for like 80 cents

leave it in your trunk out of direct sunlight, cover it up with something else like a blanket to keep it from getting too much heat.

change it out every quarter.

a gallon of water is enough for 2 solid days of walking. that plus a water filter and you should be good to go.

the benefit of this approach is that no matter where you are when the SHTF occurs, you have 4 quarts of water to get you from where you are now to where you want to be. a lot of people theorycraft their plans based on being at work or at home. what if you're not either place. food for thought.
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Old 12-26-2019, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinfire View Post
you can buy a jug of spring water from walmart for like 80 cents

leave it in your trunk out of direct sunlight, cover it up with something else like a blanket to keep it from getting too much heat.

change it out every quarter.

a gallon of water is enough for 2 solid days of walking. that plus a water filter and you should be good to go.

the benefit of this approach is that no matter where you are when the SHTF occurs, you have 4 quarts of water to get you from where you are now to where you want to be. a lot of people theorycraft their plans based on being at work or at home. what if you're not either place. food for thought.
I really liked you response ^.

I do a lot of thinking about being away from home during a disaster. I do even more about one or more of my family being away and in the vehicle during a disaster. I don't mind stocking up with several days of food and water in each of them. This is completely separate from an emergency bag. The way I see it, if you are stuck somewhere you will be ok until you can get moving again. If I have to hot foot it then I will take what I can reasonably carry. Water being a very high priority. I like those large Arizona ice tea bottles. After I'm done with one I clean it and re-fill it. They are really rugged and have a handle to help with carrying. In the hot summer I'm not sure I could get by easily with a gallon for two days walking but it's sure better than none. If it's come to that I more than likely won't be moving by day anyway.

I like to keep some water purification tabs and a Sillcock key https://www.lowes.com/pd/IRWIN-Combo-Wrench/1000668319 in the vehicles. Just about anywhere there is water you can use one to obtain water and they are a cheap investment to keep in the glove box. Going hungry stinks but being dehydrated is deadly quick.
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Old 12-26-2019, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
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change it out every quarter.
This one line is the reason I nod instead of gripe.

Those #1 resin clear plastic bottles are no good at all for long storage of water.

But if you are rigorous about changing them out every few months then they work.


Just remember that even $4 a year only needs a few years to justify one of the many affordable Aquatainer options.

That modest sum also can get you a case of glass bottles from Topo Chico.
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Old 12-26-2019, 07:01 PM
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If you are filtering water off the ground, what's the difference between that in a plastic bottle?
There is a chance of contaminants in everything but distilled water. Very few people will do that .
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