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Old 01-06-2020, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
My head hurt trying to comprehend this gibberish. I expect my firearm(s) to work ALL of the time regardless of the scenario. I never know what I'll be carrying at any given point, so yeah, there IS something wrong with that if it fails me.
I tend to agree, but lots of people will opt to save money by purchasing economical alternatives to more reliable equipment. I concede that, as this thread showcases, these people are prevalent.
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Cavadus View Post
You're either looking at a variable optic or red dot or holo and magnifier combo.

5.56 isn't a strong enough round to necessitate anything stronger than 4x magnification.

Best bet is a nice red (or green) dot, IMO. Holosun makes an exceptional green dot that includes solar power in addition to the battery.
It depends on your usage and goals. Our military disagrees, hence the SVO solicitation.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
It depends on your usage and goals. Our military disagrees, hence the SVO solicitation.
Not really. If you need more magnification than 4x it's time for 7.62NATO.

Our military can disagree all they want. They picked the M14 over the FAL and recently-ish brought back a 1911 variant. They can be dumbasses just like the rest of us :-/
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:26 PM
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Favorite AR optic = ACOG w/red chevron = perfection for me. (can be used with both eyes open, like a red dot, very nice)
2nd fav = Eotech it's fast, clear, easy to use and tough. The red dot is a tiny 1moa dot, so it's easy to be accurate at a distance.
3rd fav = Holosun 510 (much like Eotech) unsure if it's as robust, glass is a step down from Eotech, but still excellent. 2moa dot.
I also like the Trij MRO. Tough little guy, with great glass. Positioned correctly, it almost disappears from view and 'ya see is a sharp little dot. Nice!

I'm old and can't use iron sights. Thought back up iron sights were interesting, so purchased some, can't really use 'em either. So I do without back up sights.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:43 AM
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At 200 yards can you tell a cell phone from a pistol easier with 4x or 8x? Do you really need a .308 to shoot 200 yards? Magnification isnt just about getting hits.
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Old 01-20-2020, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Cavadus View Post
Our military can disagree all they want. They picked the M14 over the FAL and recently-ish brought back a 1911 variant. They can be dumbasses just like the rest of us :-/
Bogus test standards designed to give the outcome they wanted. Just like the desperate clinging to a .30-cal based cartridge when the Brits were prepared to roll out a caliber we are now looking at.

And, if that isn't bad enough, now looking to roll out a .338-based MG AND a .338-based minigun.

smh........
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
At 200 yards can you tell a cell phone from a pistol easier with 4x or 8x? Do you really need a .308 to shoot 200 yards? Magnification isnt just about getting hits.
Spotting scope what?
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
Hobby gun = firearm that at no point in time will upset you greatly if it fails you.

Nothing at all wrong with that.
Interesting. I will keep that in mind.

With that said.....

2 firearms in pic below.

The Benelli 121 M1 is utilized as a fun gun while blasting skeet.

The M14S is used for hunting, hog eradication, and is the go to rifle in the event security becomes an issue.....so....defensive.

If one or both was not reliable, one or both would be replaced with something else.

I guess that I don't own any " hobby guns"... by that definition....lol.

11B
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Spotting scope what?
Field glasses too boot.

While it may sound all commando to aim loaded weapons at unidentified " targets" because said weapon sports an optic.....that practice is not the best of ideas in reality.

Probably why they dont send untrained civilians off to war.......lol

11B
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:55 PM
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I personally use aimpoints on the 3 ARs I have. 2 16” carbines, one with a comp m4 and the other a pro. The other an 11.5” sbr with a comp m4. Works well for me out to 450yd (haven’t had the opportunity to shoot any further)
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Old 01-29-2020, 04:49 AM
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I personally use aimpoints on the 3 ARs I have. 2 16Ē carbines, one with a comp m4 and the other a pro. The other an 11.5Ē sbr with a comp m4. Works well for me out to 450yd (havenít had the opportunity to shoot any further)
On a square range with highly contrasting targets and no clutter, aimpoints are awesome.
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
On a square range with highly contrasting targets and no clutter, aimpoints are awesome.
Used to see a lot of Aimpoints at the local 3-gun matches. Guys running them then preferred them. Don't know if that is still the case or not.
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:52 AM
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MBUS under a nikon prostaff on QR base and a docter on top
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Old 01-30-2020, 05:55 PM
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Variable power optics are fine but don't get anything you can't run at a true 1x magnification when you want to. The army made a huge mistake with the fixed 4x ACOGs and only people who know very little buy them because "the army uses them so they must be good".
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Old 01-30-2020, 06:03 PM
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Variable power optics are fine but don't get anything you can't run at a true 1x magnification when you want to. The army made a huge mistake with the fixed 4x ACOGs and only people who know very little buy them because "the army uses them so they must be good".
So would you say then the Marines made a huge mistake as well? Couple Reserve buddies of mine were talking about this not too long ago. New boots training on ACOGs and rather than adjusting for elevation, being trained to get initial 100 zero then use BDC for subsequent ranges.
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Old 01-31-2020, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
So would you say then the Marines made a huge mistake as well? Couple Reserve buddies of mine were talking about this not too long ago. New boots training on ACOGs and rather than adjusting for elevation, being trained to get initial 100 zero then use BDC for subsequent ranges.
Yes the entire military, 4x is nice when you want it but terrible when you don't.

What you described is changing your holdover and that is a different issue than having too much magnification at close ranges, its something you have to work out on ALL optics.

I'm glad to hear it is being trained, now if they could explain how optic height over bore works so people don't tell their buddies it has anything to do with magnification that would be great.
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Old 01-31-2020, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by GoodPrepper View Post
What you described is changing your holdover and that is a different issue than having too much magnification at close ranges, its something you have to work out on ALL optics.
I know what it means. And it also means I don't necessarily agree with it. But, that is the new doctrine and it gets boots through qualification faster so be it. Me? I've got an ACOG on one of the M4 clones and I don't use the BDC. I know what the adjustments are because I took the time.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
I know what it means. And it also means I don't necessarily agree with it. But, that is the new doctrine and it gets boots through qualification faster so be it. Me? I've got an ACOG on one of the M4 clones and I don't use the BDC. I know what the adjustments are because I took the time.
What don't you agree with? Because of physics a weapon can only be zeroed at essentially one distance although sometimes the zero at 2 distances ends up being the same because of bullet drop. So you MUST use hold over in order to accurately hit targets at difference distances quickly. We are talking about a self defense gun not something setup for matches.

Are you honestly saying because you learned what adjustments need to be made you will stop in a gunfight if someone appears closer to you to adjust you elevation dials before shooting rather than just knowing "at this distance I should put the dot/chevron/crosshairs/whatever reticle on his cap to hit his T-box"?

Or are you going to reply with "well no if he is only 15 yards from me I don't really have to aim all that accurately...unless there is a kid in front of him or barrier or other something that would be the entire reason why shooting accurately which includes knowing exactly where your point of impact is at your given fixed zero point of aim"?

Again all SEPERATE from having constant fixed 4x magnification that narrows your field of view, makes it hard to shoot with both eyes open and transition between close up targets regardless of holdover.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but you need to think about what you are saying here. When was the last time you went and got quality carbine training for a nationally recognized trainer? They travel the country and are well worth the money even if you can only make one 2-day class a year.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:50 AM
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Itís not the adjustments...itís the seeing. If youíre clearing a room, 4x is a bit much. It makes both eyes open, harder.

That said, there are ways to deal with that, like a secondary weapon, or offset sights. And not everyone is clearing rooms all day.
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Old 01-31-2020, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ajole View Post
Itís not the adjustments...itís the seeing. If youíre clearing a room, 4x is a bit much. It makes both eyes open, harder.

That said, there are ways to deal with that, like a secondary weapon, or offset sights. And not everyone is clearing rooms all day.
Bingo! Not one point here I disagree with.
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