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Old 07-25-2020, 09:19 AM
down under down under is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeDefense View Post
I don't see how the Epsom Salt solution can replace sulfuric acid.
Way too long since I did any chemistry but it is as @Justme11 says, the sulfate ion is the key.

The difference in the water in a battery is high between a fully charged battery and a fully flat one. One contains a lot of acid, the other very little acid (I can't remember which way it goes).

The battery contains either sulfuric acid and lead, H2SO4 and Pb; or water and lead sulfate, H20 and PbSO4.
As the battery charges and discharges the sulphate ion gets switched between the two chemicals.
Add Epsom Salts, magnesium sulfate aka MgSO4, and the same reactions will occur. Once the Epsom salts convert to acid or lead sulfate the magnesium probably gets ignored because the other two chemicals are more reactive. Or maybe it coats the plates and acts the same as the lead does. Anyway it becomes irrelevant because the sulfate ion can still change to the other form, acid, which is the important thing.
Could probably add acid instead but Epsom Salts are a bit less corrosive to handle and cheaper too, I would think. Remember this isn't to create a new battery, just extend the life of an old one.
Something like that. Anyone, feel free to explain it better!
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:05 PM
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How about draining , filtering and saving all the acid. Washing the cells thoroughly with tap water, followed by a thourogh rinse with distilled water, then reintroducing the filtered acid?

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Old 07-25-2020, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
How about draining , filtering and saving all the acid. Washing the cells thoroughly with tap water, followed by a thourogh rinse with distilled water, then reintroducing the filtered acid?

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If the battery is fully discharged, the acid is mostly in the form lead sulfate which is not very water soluble. So the liquid is pretty much water at that point (which is why a dead battery will freeze and break in winter). Dump the water, refill with distilled and charge. Should re-create the acid. I think, my last chemistry class was back when Dalton had his dilemma.

Or just buy new sulfuric acid somewhere. There must be a way to buy it.
Here you go. 10 bucks at Autozone.

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-s...ing%20smoothly.
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Old 07-25-2020, 03:10 PM
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I’m sorry.... but slamming a lead acid battery on the ground or dropping it on concrete to repair it......is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Not even worth an explanation
I can't resist, are you sure it is the dumbest thing or, just in the top ten, things you have heard?? [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
Its ranked in the top 10
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Old 07-26-2020, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
The main advice I have for pasted plate flooded lead acid batteries is to keep them topped up with distilled water. Even so called sealed or maintenance free batteries.
Take off the big top sticker and pop those little plugs open and add demin or distilled water. This will violate your warrantee, so wait until that expires before doing this .

Hot weather is especially hard on the batteries as it dries them out faster.

And if you want to try it, running a desulphating operation on the batteries every couple years might keep them functional longer. Desulphating is simply using a higher voltage to recharge the batteries. Some smart chargers will do this automatically now. the charger will sense that the battery needs to be desulphated and they run the programmed desulphating step. The guy on Sweet Project Cars claims he does this using a particular (expensive) charger by hitting the battery with a "claimed" 200 amp charge/jump start step of 15 minutes continuous. But he does not have it connected to an ammeter while doing this and I think he is full of crap. The batteries are not bubbling nearly hard enough to indicate 200 amps of insane charging happening. That charger had no way of showing amps, so for all he knows it was only giving it 10 amps or something. If he really was jamming 200 amps though that battery, it would be a pile of flaming molten lead after 15 minutes.

Smart chargers only apply a high voltage for very brief intervals so as not to overheat and damage the battery.

One main way batteries die is the active material sheds to the bottom of the battery case and piles up until it shorts out the adjacent grids, killing the cell.

Another way they die is the formation of dendritic crystals that punch through the cell divider membrane and again, short out adjacent grids.

And lastly, sulphation, which is the formation of sulfate crystals on the surface of the pasted plates that reduces the mass transfer required for battery operation.


Edit:
My god the spell checker is atrocious on this site. I have had to go back and fix the spelling on about 20 words. It simply changes letters to suit its tiny pea brain.
Yes. But I am looking for experience on renewing a 10 year old "dead" battery using the Epsom Salt. All the other stuff may have been helpful 6 or 8 years ago. I am well beyond that. I got a good 7 years out of the batteries even enduring the heat of the desert and baking hot temps in the sun. I do have a cover but it still probably gets 130*+ when the sun is beating on the box.

Eventually I will trade them in as a core charge for new batteries but i am trying to learn something while possibly extending the battery life another year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by down under View Post
.......
Could probably add acid instead but Epsom Salts are a bit less corrosive to handle and cheaper too, I would think. Remember this isn't to create a new battery, just extend the life of an old one.
Something like that. Anyone, feel free to explain it better!
I have considered that but I am still curious about the Epsom Salt method, or the EDTA (Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid) method. I have 4 batteries. Whichever method I choose I will try on 2 batteries. If it works I will repeat with the other 2, if not I will try another process. Just hoping for some first hand experience from one of our members here.
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Old 07-26-2020, 08:47 AM
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There are videos on YouTube where people use various means to restore the plates in batteries, but then they replace the acid with new acid. That makes much more sense to me. Even that method sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
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Old 07-26-2020, 08:49 PM
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I found this step by step today. This is the same process I first learned/read about last fall. DO NOT CLICK ON THE VIDEO, IT TAKES YOU TO ANOTHER PAGE TO SELL YOU SOMETHING AND THERE IS NO WAY TO FAST FORWARD THE VIDEO.

https://www.wrightgrid.com/battery-r...ng/epsom-salt/
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:47 PM
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I have tried it with a couple batteries and had nothing. That being said there were old batteries lying around, and I saw these videos on youtube. I figured why not give it a go. I personally had 0 luck getting any kind of charge. I also was not aware of whatever history these batteries had, and the shape they were in internally.
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Old 07-31-2020, 06:24 AM
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I followed the video with a motorcycle battery. No luck. It kind-of took a charge and worked, for about 15 minutes. Dead the next day. Charged again, over and over. Finally bought a new battery.
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:19 AM
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I have allot of batteries around here for everything from solar to machines. One of the batteries I used in a Ford 5000 diesel tractor lasted me 14 years before it would not hold a charge.

I never let it go low, pulled the cables when it was not being used.

Brought it in during the winter when the machine was not being used.

Always kept it topped up, never used a float or "maintainer".

Used a "desulph" cycle on an old Vector smart charger every few months.

This was a quality battery to begin with. Epoxy cased. Back when batteries were costing 60 70 dollars, I paid around 130 for this thing from New Holland.

You get what you pay and ask for.
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeDefense View Post
There are videos on YouTube where people use various means to restore the plates in batteries, but then they replace the acid with new acid. That makes much more sense to me. Even that method sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
If you try this method, make sure hit it with a high, hot charge to run all the electrolyte/acid out of the plates, then dump it. Then get gallons of distilled water and fill the battery and then dump it, do this many times to get all of the funk out of the bottom of the battery that shorts the plates. Pump and dump, over and over until no garbage comes out.

After you wore your ass out, pumping and dumping, fill with acid, dont let the plates dry between p&d and acid install. Give it a low current charge overnight and load test the following day, watch the temp while charging, don't want any explosions... Sometimes" this works. I had a friend that did this with 6 deep cycle golf cart batts and got another year or so out of them.

Batts lose capacity due to shorting and partial shorting, (crap in the bottom) thinning and deterioration of plate material, insulation break down and sulfur build up.

Acid mixes are proprietary to the manufacturer, depending on composition of plate material, good luck with that...
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