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Old 05-27-2020, 07:27 PM
Madoc Madoc is offline
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Default ...for those who think New Zealand is an outstanding anti-Xivirus success story...



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...based on what you see and read in the New Zealand and International media; there are many things that the Lugenpresse downplays or simply ignores.

We haven't eliminated it and we haven't eradicated it; the government has just changed the dictionary definitions of those two words; and so far the media have been extremely cooperative in not reminding the government of what they have promised as recently as a couple of months ago.

With one or possibly two* exceptions, all of the deaths so far have been in the very elderly ("the authorities" are keeping very close lipped about causes of death, ostensibly for reasons of confidentiality, but are not even releasing aggregate details). Deaths from the effects of lockdown already outnumber deaths from the virus.

Much of the world has lauded the socialist Comrade Dear Leader for her leadership and success. I am naturally of the opposite view. She was very late to take any concrete steps, for reasons I won't bore you with in this post; and after failing to secure the border, failing to institute appropriate inbound passenger testing, failing to exclude infected cruise ships, failing to prepare for early and widespread testing, failing to prepare PPE supplies and a host of other failures - and then denying a lockdown was coming... suddenly after she talked to some friends in London (by her own public and published admission) she locked the country down for 50 days.

She continues to claim - as do her sycophants - that New Zealand went hard and fast. No, we delayed, prevaricated, did not plan, did not prepare, and subsequently overreached hugely. The government has chosen industry winners and losers - and turned us more or less within a month to a country where 40% will need to support the other 60% for the foreseeable future, and to do so not for months but for years. A surplus of $20 billion has turned into a projected possible deficit of $200 billion by 2023.

...and what now with the virus? because, while we have managed to clamp down on cases - because we are lucky enough to have a large amount of water surrounding us and so you can't drive through our frontier, and air travel has collapsed so we are able to keep up with quarantining the inbound people the government still lets arrive (having basically lied about closing the border to foreigners, and just been found out...) - we cannot stay in a country-sized bubble forever without going back to an early 1900's style of living and a huge mental and physical illness and injury toll. Even if we wanted to do that, and accepted to do that, we simply couldn't afford to pay for imports.

But the entire plan so far from the NZ government appears to be threefold

1. "we be waiting for a vaccine". Sure, and we been waiting for a vaccine against HIV for 40 years.

2. "we be encouraging New Zealanders to travel domestically". Sure, with what money exactly since more than half the population are now out of work and on unemployment, sickness or wage subsidy benefits?

3. "we be opening up a trans-Tasman travel bubble shortly." Sure, and anybody with money to travel will probably buy a one-way ticket to Australia.

As others have said, her job was to flatten the curve. Instead she flattened our country.

I saw no reason to ever travel to Venezuela. and now as it turns out, I don't need to, my country will become Venezuela.
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:40 PM
hardcalibres hardcalibres is offline
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New Zealand under JA was always going to be a demonstration of what happens to a nation where all policy is some sort of virtue signaling.

Her policy towards the virus just shows how comfortable she is and always will be with destroying economic activity and spending borrowed money.

But since she leads a minority government and is getting tangled up in all the ugliness, hypocrisy and lying that involves, she will most likely get voted out next time the NZ has an election.

NZ is very isolated geographically. Just but anything/anyone that wants to get there has to get through or past Australia to do so.

NZ did not need to go any harder than Australia - and could have gotten away with going less hard and still been relatively untouched by the pandemic.
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Old 05-28-2020, 01:23 AM
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Another interesting NZ Prime Ministerial Socialist outreach:

The most noteworthy appointment in Ardern's diary was a phone call with Chinese billionaire philanthropist Jack Ma, on March 21. Ma is the co-founder of Chinese online retail giant Alibaba and is worth roughly $40 billion, according to Forbes.

Ardern spoke with Ma, via video conference, at 3pm – the pair spoke for half an hour.

Ardern's diary does not say what was talked about, but a spokesman for the Prime Minister said Ma and Ardern discussed New Zealand's response to Covid-19, in particular personal protective equipment (PPE).


Wow, a bit late to the PPE party were you not darlin'? why didn't you get it together a couple of months earlier? Oh yes, that's right, you wanted to shine on the world stage for the Christchurch Terror Event Memorial.

Here is a hint for you JA: the best way to memorialise that event, would be to pass a law under urgency with no real consultation = just like you passed laws that confiscated legally-acquired assets from law-abiding firearms owners - to reinstate the death penalty, convict Tarrant, and have him hung, shot, or drawn and quartered at dawn next week. I don't think anybody would really mind how that terminal event happens. Then, deport his ashes to Australia where someone more closely affiliated with the Southern Cross can dispose of them.
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Old 05-29-2020, 04:36 AM
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More than 4200 people died separated from their loved ones around New Zealand between March 25 (when New Zealand went into Alert Level 4) and May 13 (the start of level 3), Department of Internal Affairs figures show.
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:29 AM
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She might be the ultimate leftist biatch, but I'd still like to make her pregnant.
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Old 06-06-2020, 01:24 AM
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Ft Frostbite: srsly. You never stick it in crazy, if you know what's good for you.

Meanwhile back in Reality Land:

http://gdplive.net/Dashboard#map
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Old 06-06-2020, 09:08 PM
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Another dose of New New Zealand Reality...

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.c...-robbo-we.html
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Old 06-12-2020, 12:01 AM
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Ummm no
NZ has done a brilliant job, the USA especially should be jealous
NZ will recover economically

As for Venezuela, as you haven’t been there - maybe STFU about it?
Venezuela was destroyed by NATIONALISM and CORRUPTION - don’t believe the conservative lies that it was socialism or anything else. Hugo Chavez and his toadie Maduro were/are wannabe nationalist dictators whose corruption was out of control
Trump would have fitted in well with them, he’s the same kind of dodgy egotist



Quote:
Originally Posted by Madoc View Post
...based on what you bc see and read in the New Zealand and International media; there are many things that the Lugenpresse downplays or simply ignores.

We haven't eliminated it and we haven't eradicated it; the government has just changed the dictionary definitions of those two words; and so far the media have been extremely cooperative in not reminding the government of what they have promised as recently as a couple of months ago.

With one or possibly two* exceptions, all of the deaths so far have been in the very elderly ("the authorities" are keeping very close lipped about causes of death, ostensibly for reasons of confidentiality, but are not even releasing aggregate details). Deaths from the effects of lockdown already outnumber deaths from the virus.

Much of the world has lauded the socialist Comrade Dear Leader for her leadership and success. I am naturally of the opposite view. She was very late to take any concrete steps, for reasons I won't bore you with in this post; and after failing to secure the border, failing to institute appropriate inbound passenger testing, failing to exclude infected cruise ships, failing to prepare for early and widespread testing, failing to prepare PPE supplies and a host of other failures - and then denying a lockdown was coming... suddenly after she talked to some friends in London (by her own public and published admission) she locked the country down for 50 days.

She continues to claim - as do her sycophants - that New Zealand went hard and fast. No, we delayed, prevaricated, did not plan, did not prepare, and subsequently overreached hugely. The government has chosen industry winners and losers - and turned us more or less within a month to a country where 40% will need to support the other 60% for the foreseeable future, and to do so not for months but for years. A surplus of $20 billion has turned into a projected possible deficit of $200 billion by 2023.

...and what now with the virus? because, while we have managed to clamp down on cases - because we are lucky enough to have a large amount of water surrounding us and so you can't drive through our frontier, and air travel has collapsed so we are able to keep up with quarantining the inbound people the government still lets arrive (having basically lied about closing the border to foreigners, and just been found out...) - we cannot stay in a country-sized bubble forever without going back to an early 1900's style of living and a huge mental and physical illness and injury toll. Even if we wanted to do that, and accepted to do that, we simply couldn't afford to pay for imports.

But the entire plan so far from the NZ government appears to be threefold

1. "we be waiting for a vaccine". Sure, and we been waiting for a vaccine against HIV for 40 years.

2. "we be encouraging New Zealanders to travel domestically". Sure, with what money exactly since more than half the population are now out of work and on unemployment, sickness or wage subsidy benefits?

3. "we be opening up a trans-Tasman travel bubble shortly." Sure, and anybody with money to travel will probably buy a one-way ticket to Australia.

As others have said, her job was to flatten the curve. Instead she flattened our country.

I saw no reason to ever travel to Venezuela. and now as it turns out, I don't need to, my country will become Venezuela.
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Old 07-09-2020, 07:35 PM
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For the very few interested in a NZ reality check -

(It's lengthy but has applicability beyond NZ in terms of the decision between lockdown and not lockdown)

PANDEMIC STOCKTAKE
By Dr Muriel Newman

At Labour’s annual conference last weekend, Covid-19 dominated Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s address: “Our strong health response now gives us an economic head start, the ability to move from responding to Covid-19, to recovering and rebuilding… So today my ask of you is simple. Don’t put on the brakes when now more than ever is the time that we need to speed up… let’s keep up the momentum… Let’s keep rebuilding.”

The Prime Minister outlined the steps her Government has taken to help the economy recover from the hit caused when she imposed ‘the strictest constraints placed on New Zealanders in modern history’. A record $50 billion in borrowing has been providing wage subsidies, loan guarantees, job creation, re-training, and additional welfare support – leaving $20 billion of unallocated spending to ‘assist the recovery’. And while the generous funding pledges now being announced almost daily do not amount to “treating” under the Electoral Act, the scale and proximity to the election are most irregular.

With the PM pitching for a second term on the basis of her track record of managing the Covid-19 crisis, let’s do a quick stocktake of how the two main parties have responded to pandemics.

John Key’s National Government faced the swine flu pandemic in 2009, which affected up to 1.4 billion people world-wide and caused 600,000 deaths, while Jacinda Ardern’s Labour Government has, of course, been dealing with Covid-19, which, at this stage, has 12 million notified cases and 550,000 deaths.

Swine flu is caused by the H1N1 influenza virus and the pandemic, which originated in Mexico, lasted for around 19 months. Altogether, it was estimated that of the 430,000 symptomatic cases of H1N1 in New Zealand, around 116,000 visited GPs, some 1,100 were hospitalised, and 119 patients were admitted to intensive care units. Of the forty-nine deaths attributed to the disease, 86 percent had underlying health complications, most notably, respiratory illnesses, obesity, and substance abuse.

To deal with the pandemic, the National Government adopted the Ministry of Health’s Influenza Pandemic Plan – a mitigation strategy designed to manage an outbreak in such a way as to prevent hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, whilst reducing the impact on society and the economy. While border controls were introduced, and some schools and businesses temporarily closed to reduce the spread of the disease, there was minimum economic and social disruption.

Fast-forward to 2020.

When reports of the spread of Covid-19 emerged in January, the Ministry of Health’s Influenza Pandemic Plan was again enacted. Border controls were introduced, work began on testing and tracing, and an Alert Level system was developed.

By mid-March, with fewer than 50 reported cases and no deaths, but more New Zealanders arriving home from infected areas, the Ministry of Health recommended that the country move to Alert Level 2 for a month. This involved stricter border controls, the introduction of social distancing and good hygiene measures, increased testing and tracing, a restriction on gatherings to 100 people, and a recommendation that those at the greatest risk from the disease – namely the elderly and anyone with underlying health conditions - take extra care.

Two days after introducing Level 2, the Prime Minister, warning of tens of thousands of deaths, ordered the country to Level 3 for two days, and then to Level 4 for a month.

This week’s NZCPR Guest Commentator former Cabinet Minister Barry Brill has analysed the Ardern Government’s response to the pandemic and reminds us how the Prime Minister over-rode the Ministry of Health’s recommendation for “a 30-day pause at Level 2” with her Captain’s Call to lock the country down:

“The Prime Minister impulsively chose to disregard this official advice and instead leaped to the world’s most masochist restrictions - the Lockdown - with the resounding battle-cry of ‘go hard, go early’, and hang the expense!

“Political instincts and theatre easily trumped all the evidence-based science. There was no cost-benefit analysis of any kind. The PM’s historic Captain’s Call was apparently influenced by alarming forecasts from three academic computer models – one from the Imperial College of London, one from Otago University, and one from Auckland University... In announcing her extreme Lockdown decision, Ms Ardern signalled that ‘the worst case scenario is simply intolerable’. All three unvalidated models have since been thoroughly discredited by both peer reviews and real-world events.”

Barry reminds us that in spite of the media and others treating the Prime Minister as a hero for keeping us safe, that is not the reality. He argues that Jacinda Ardern’s Lockdown was “the worst policy decision ever and almost surely resulted in a net loss of New Zealand lives… In retrospect, there is no evidence that our extreme Lockdown saved the life of a single New Zealander.”

We certainly know that in spite of the frail elderly being clearly identified as the group most vulnerable to Covid-19 - especially those in rest homes – Jacinda Ardern’s lockdown wasn’t able to keep them safe. Almost three-quarters of the country’s 22 deaths were of rest home residents.

While they died in spite of the lockdown, many other New Zealanders died as a result of the lockdown: mothers and babies lost their lives due to the disruption in regular health care; gravely ill people were too afraid of the virus to seek medical help from doctors or hospitals; suicides were triggered by financial ruin caused by the lockdown; cancer sufferers were unable to access life-saving tests, operations, and treatment.

Many deaths never made the headlines - like the case of a frail elderly gentleman with a chronically sore foot who lived alone but had friends who ensured he ate properly and took care of his foot. Without their support, by the end of the lockdown he had developed gangrene and died just a few weeks later – a victim of the lockdown.

Governing a country means carefully weighing up policies to ensure the damage caused by unintended consequences do not outweigh the benefits being sought. While government agencies usually provide Cost-Benefit Analyses and Regulatory Impact Statements to outline the pros and cons of policy options, as well as identifying costs and risks, Jacinda Ardern used no such analyses to inform her lockdown decision.

In fact, a new report from the OECD, which has analysed the effectiveness of the responses of various countries to the Covid-19 pandemic - not only in keeping infection and death rates low but also in minimising economic and social disruption - has ranked New Zealand ninth, with South Korea first, Latvia second, and Australia third.

Those highly ranked countries relied more on stringent isolation and quarantine measures, border controls, comprehensive testing and tracing, and good hygiene and social distancing practices, rather than on harsh lockdown restrictions.

This week’s news that Britain is opening its borders to 70 countries with returning passengers not required to self-isolate, highlights a significant flaw in Labour’s Covid-19 response.

Instead of following the Ministry of Health’s plan to manage the virus - as John Key had done during the swine flu pandemic - Jacinda Ardern decided on ‘elimination’. As a result most New Zealanders have developed no immunity to the virus. In an increasingly infected world, that will never be able to eliminate Covid-19, the Prime Minister’s strategy - which depends on our borders remaining closed - has left New Zealanders isolated and extremely vulnerable.

Former Prime Minister Helen Clark along with Sir Peter Gluckman, a former Prime Minister’s Science Advisor, and former Air New Zealand chief Rob Fyfe believe that this is unsustainable and they argue that New Zealand needs to ‘re-engage with the world’: “Just after COVID hit our shores, initial discussions centred on adopting a ‘flattening the curve’ strategy. This involved accepting there would be some influx of disease, but by using behavioural and hygiene measures, viral transmission would be slowed and our hospital system would not be overloaded.

“But soon after cases started appearing, a clear shift in strategy was made – sometimes expressed as ‘keep it out, stamp it out’. In epidemiological terms, elimination of the virus became the goal. But it required huge effort and sacrifice by all New Zealanders – the burden of which will continue to echo for many years.”

They ask, “Is New Zealand prepared to hold itself in its state of near-total isolation for the indefinite future?” Other countries “have not adopted the elimination strategy. While we pin our hopes on a vaccine, it could be much further away than the hype suggests. Can we afford to wait out another year, two years, or even more in almost total physical isolation? And at what cost? This is not just affecting tourism and export education, but also the many ways in which New Zealand projects and leverages its place in the world.”

They conclude that unless New Zealand has global connectivity “we will rapidly progress to a position of relative disadvantage”.

These are important questions to which our Prime Minister has few answers.

It’s becoming clear that around the world countries are now beginning to treat Covid-19 as ‘just another flu’, shifting to a management strategy so life can return to “normal”.

That new normal comes with caveats of course, such as good hygiene and sensible social distancing - as well as facemask use in an increasing number of countries. Since the majority of infected people are now known to be asymptomatic, facemask use in public is seen as an effective way of helping to stop the spread of the virus.

It is something that many New Zealanders called for, but the Director General of Health refused to recommend their use – no doubt because of insufficient stocks of masks.

Professor Mark Woolhouse, an infectious disease epidemiologist at the University of Edinburgh recommends that since Covid-19 is ‘not going away any time soon, if at all’, alternative approaches are now needed: “The chances of dying from Covid-19 are at least 10,000 times greater for the over-75s than the under-15s. Our priority should be to protect the old and others at greatest risk.”

He believes, “When the reckoning comes we may well find the cure turned out to be far worse than the disease. I fear history will judge lockdowns as a monumental mistake on a global scale.”

It is becoming increasingly accepted that countries that are trying to “keep the virus out” are doing a grave disservice to their citizens.

Oxford University’s epidemiologist Professor Sunetra Gupta believes that closing borders in the long term is unsustainable: “You can only lock down for so long unless you choose to be in isolation for eternity so that’s not a good solution. Being self-congratulatory, ‘we have kept it out’, is misplaced.”

She says that instead of lockdowns, governments should be focussing their energies on shielding the elderly and those with comorbidities to protect them as much as possible. She also warns, “There is no way lockdowns can eliminate the virus … and so it’s not at all surprising once you lift lockdown in areas it will flare up again. In places where it has already swept through, a proportion of people are immune and you are not seeing it come back.”

So while in 2009 John Key followed the Ministry of Health’s pandemic plan and the country moved on once the swine flu epidemic had abated, in 2020, Jacinda Ardern ignored the warning that eliminating flu viruses is impossible in the long term and imposed such harsh State controls that ‘fortress New Zealand’ has become our reality.

As the election approaches and our future hangs in limbo, the major parties are asking voters to ‘trust’ them to manage the country out of the difficulties we now face, including massive debt, skyrocketing unemployment, collapsing businesses, and chaotic border controls.
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Old 07-09-2020, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrowbreaker View Post
Ummm no
NZ has done a brilliant job, the USA especially should be jealous
NZ will recover economically

As for Venezuela, as you havenít been there - maybe STFU about it?
Venezuela was destroyed by NATIONALISM and CORRUPTION - donít believe the conservative lies that it was socialism or anything else. Hugo Chavez and his toadie Maduro were/are wannabe nationalist dictators whose corruption was out of control
Trump would have fitted in well with them, heís the same kind of dodgy egotist
Have you been to NZ since the lockdown? If not, well... maybe take your own advice :-)
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Old 08-17-2020, 12:51 AM
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Well, the comments by arrow breaker and Southern Cross appear to have lost the gloss with time...

New Zealand established the worst of both worlds. Huge economic losses - crashing economy - major joblessness - more than 50% of all New Zealand workforce are receiving some form of wage and salary subsidy - depression, suicides, delayed cancer diagnosis and treatment, you name it we are accumulating it; and we still don't have control of the outbreak nor do we have any herd immunity for all that price paid.

But then again that's what happens when you 'elect' a Self-proclaimed, Comrade Communist.
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Old 09-06-2020, 09:15 PM
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I'm an American who has been at NZ for the past 13 years. This place is a British colony, a grand social experiment on an island. Politics is a clever diversion for the unwashed masses. Virtually all its population is mind controlled and thus are the primary hazard to the free thinkers in this present covid hoax. Hitler gave out an extra week's food rations to those who snitched out their neighbors. Beware the snitches.

Firearms are not useful in any meaningful way against fascist actors, but only to deter crim's and would-be crim's who will covet your three F's (Foods, Fuels and Females).

Went up to Drury (just south of Auckland) last week to pick up an item purchased from TradeMe. The highway was blocked in both directions by dozens of uniforms (both police and cammo'd military). Desensitization of the public to the military presence is the short-term goal; these predictive programming tactics (including the "wait" for the vaccine, the declaration of a reprise of this mess in October, contact tracing sign-in's & apps (soon to be tightened), social distancing, ad nauseum) continue nonstop to condition us to accept such eventualities.

No one will be "forced" to comply with the next level of control (e.g. "vaccination") - that is, if they want to eat. And agreeing to take the test confirms compliance to their authority and thus those who test can indeed be then forced to take "the shot." The perp's used to be in your face, now they're "ON your face". Gotta luv those visual indicators of compliance.

Free thinkers will be marginalized from all that society has to offer. Without the pre-approved Certificate Of Vaccination I D, no engagement with commercial enterprises will be allowed for such "un-vaxxed." This means no supermarket access, no access to public buildings, public transportation or public gatherings/events. Oh, and your government benefit check (indeed, ALL gov't subsidies) will be slowly but systematically reduced until you comply or until it is eventually terminated altogether.

The commercial marketplace will remain available to those who will give their internal control over to an external source (i.e. those who "take the shot" or an oral or a nasal). It begs the question of what is in that so-called vaccine. I know; do you?

New Zealand has fallen.
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Old 09-06-2020, 10:02 PM
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I gotta admit, I am still waiting for SouthernCross to surface again, but I'm running out of popcorn :-)
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Old 09-06-2020, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrox View Post
Wot 'e said above

***

I wish I could say you were entirely wrong in all respects, but you aren't.

Only thing I would take issue with is the extra week's ration for the snitches. Where / when did that take effect? My Karenina neighbor snitched on maskless-in-public me without (AFAIK) getting food for it
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Old 09-06-2020, 10:08 PM
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I gotta admit, I am still waiting for SouthernCross to surface again, but I'm running out of popcorn :-)
Gonna be a long wait, he thinks "This is a great survival forum"
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Old 09-06-2020, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
My Karenina neighbor snitched on maskless-in-public me without (AFAIK) getting food for it
In one form or another, she indeed got something for it. In due time, all will be revealed.
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