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Old 07-11-2019, 11:11 AM
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Default Eviction Thread For Home Bible Study



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Oppression In Virginia. Technically, this is not a violation of the 1A because it is not initiated by Congress. Still, a very disturbing threat in a country that once prided itself on religious liberty.

https://www.charismanews.com/us/7713...-study-at-home
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:59 AM
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It's a pretty stupid move by the Senior Living community's management, but you are right, they are not bound by the First Amendment. Fox News reported that the management company had received complaints from other residents about being pressured to join the bible study... so there may be two sides.

But the upshot is that a private company can't decide you can't live in their apartment complex based on your religion, but it can have a say in what you do, especially in the communal areas.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:18 PM
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There was quite a bit of this going on under the Obama administration, it seemed that after the election that it had settled down a bit.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:29 PM
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There was quite a bit of this going on under the Obama administration, it seemed that after the election that it had settled down a bit.
Could you share the evidence that leads you to this conclusion?
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:26 PM
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But the upshot is that a private company can't decide you can't live in their apartment complex based on your religion, but it can have a say in what you do, especially in the communal areas.
Really?

What limits are there on the power of a private company to restrict your freedom of action?
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:42 PM
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Really?

What limits are there on the power of a private company to restrict your freedom of action?
First off, whatever is in the lease. From reading the stories it appears that residents of the facility in question agreed not to run a business out of their apartments. I would assume there is probably language about disturbing your neighbors, too.
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:03 PM
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It's not illegal, but the loss of civility in public and private discourse cannot come without consequences.
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Old 07-11-2019, 09:04 PM
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There may be some valid problems if other Tenants are not allowed to use a common area or their peaceful enjoyment of a common area is interfered with. The couple should be able to hold small private studies in their own unit.

I tried to research this to find a copy of the eviction notice, but it is unavailable so only one side of the story is being told.

Well here it is. Seems they were monopolizing the common area for multiple events every week. They had the general public attending. And there are apparently rules.

https://firstliberty.org/wp-content/...e_Redacted.pdf
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Old 07-11-2019, 09:05 PM
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Really?

What limits are there on the power of a private company to restrict your freedom of action?
None whatsoever if you lease property from a landlord or live in an HOA community that has rules.
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:46 AM
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Seems they were monopolizing the common area for multiple events every week. They had the general public attending. And there are apparently rules.

https://firstliberty.org/wp-content/...e_Redacted.pdf
"Monopolizing the common area" is not against the rules you posted. Most common areas I've ever seen in such buildings are almost always vacant, e.g., gym, pool, laundry room, rec room.

Also, inviting some friends over, "non-residents" as the Complaint labels them, is NOT the general public attending. Let's keep it real!

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None whatsoever if you lease property from a landlord or live in an HOA community that has rules.
The rules prohibit running a business. The couple in question are not running a business. The Complaint states the common room is for residents only. However, the Complaint also states the common room can be reserved for use for non-residents for bridal showers, birthdays, weddings and funerals. My wife works in such a building and posted in the elevator is a notice for weekly Bible study/church service since so many of the residents, being very elderly, have difficulty getting out or cannot drive. Moreover, dubious claim of "monopolizing the common area" seems to extent to the use of their own apartment. From the article:
And in that 21/30 Notice, it went broader than covering the club room," Ken told CBN News. "It specifies that I am not permitted— because it's considered conducting business for me—to lead a Bible study." ... Liv could be evicted for breaching their lease if they hold a Bible study in the community room or even in their own apartment
Studying the Bible, what once was considered one of the best things anyone could do, is now the object of condemnation and legal sanction. If this were a Black or trans couple who held weekly political meetings, such as Antifa or LGBT rights, they would not be sued for "running a business" in violation of the rules - not matter how much they "monopolizing the common area" due to Black & Gay Privilege. And by comparison, we all know how unruly those Bible study groups of 85 year olds can get.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:29 AM
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"Monopolizing the common area" is not against the rules you posted. Most common areas I've ever seen in such buildings are almost always vacant, e.g., gym, pool, laundry room, rec room.

Also, inviting some friends over, "non-residents" as the Complaint labels them, is NOT the general public attending. Let's keep it real!



The rules prohibit running a business. The couple in question are not running a business. The Complaint states the common room is for residents only. However, the Complaint also states the common room can be reserved for use for non-residents for bridal showers, birthdays, weddings and funerals. My wife works in such a building and posted in the elevator is a notice for weekly Bible study/church service since so many of the residents, being very elderly, have difficulty getting out or cannot drive. Moreover, dubious claim of "monopolizing the common area" seems to extent to the use of their own apartment. From the article:
And in that 21/30 Notice, it went broader than covering the club room," Ken told CBN News. "It specifies that I am not permitted— because it's considered conducting business for me—to lead a Bible study." ... Liv could be evicted for breaching their lease if they hold a Bible study in the community room or even in their own apartment
Studying the Bible, what once was considered one of the best things anyone could do, is now the object of condemnation and legal sanction. If this were a Black or trans couple who held weekly political meetings, such as Antifa or LGBT rights, they would not be sued for "running a business" in violation of the rules - not matter how much they "monopolizing the common area" due to Black & Gay Privilege. And by comparison, we all know how unruly those Bible study groups of 85 year olds can get.
This guy is holding himself out as a Pastor. He is mis-using rental property to run a church. The other residents are complaining and moving out so, it in fact is unruly enough that the landlord feels he has to act. It will be up to the courts, but if you read the complaint it is more than bible study, it is counseling, religious movie nights and proselytizing other residents.

Imagine for a moment that he was not a Pastor but a clinical psychologist and would have group therapy sessions and AA meetings weekly in the common areas. It would be a commercial endeavor and violate the rules. Churches are commercial endeavors.

A house in my part of town was undergoing renovations. It started to look weird like a dollar store with parking outside. I checked, the residents of this single family house are turning it into a church. The building permit lists it as an expansion to a single family residence. It is not zoned for commercial, it is a residential location and there are no shortages of churches in the area. Parking and traffic will be a problem for the residents nearby this new "church".

http://www.attorneysforlanduse.com/c...ng-ordinances/
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Oppression In Virginia. Technically, this is not a violation of the 1A because it is not initiated by Congress. Still, a very disturbing threat in a country that once prided itself on religious liberty.

https://www.charismanews.com/us/7713...-study-at-home
Although the actions & threats of the Living Center are disgusting and downright wrong, I'm not sure I would want to live my "golden years" in such a hostile environment. I would likely look for a more down-to-earth, people friendly retirement home where I would feel more welcome.
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Old 07-12-2019, 02:57 PM
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If this were anything but a Bible study you would agree with the landlord.

Fact is, there a lot of "home church" *******s. My sister is one of them, loud, frequent, meetings, hogs up all the parking, bothering the neighbors to attend, etc. My neighbor did that for a while until someone broke up a late night meeting by firing a gun several times. Praise God, I went outside and clapped as everyone scattered.

"God" does not want you to alienate the neighbors. There is a healthy, appropriate, way to share your faith. That is not it. "Self" wants to do that, not "God".

If you want to have a big meeting multiple times a week you rent a hall, or do it in your unit.

"My wife's building allows homechurch, therefore everyone should". It doesn't work that way. It is up to the landlord.

My HOA says I cannot run a business out of my home. That means the woman next door (home church woman) is violating those rules because she is running such a well known daycare it was posted on Nextdoor app. If/when she gets caught it will be her fault and no one else for "persecuting a daycare" anymore than it is for "persecuting a church".

If a church goes out and rents a building and someone tries to shut them down, I'm with you. But if they are taking advantage of a building's hospitality then they should go.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:04 PM
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Always read the fine print.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
This guy is holding himself out as a Pastor.
What is that supposed to mean? Would it be different if he held himself as a retired mechanic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
He is mis-using rental property to run a church.
A Bible study is a church now?
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
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"My wife's building allows homechurch, therefore everyone should". It doesn't work that way.
Nobody said anything like this.
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:37 PM
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What if someone was holding prayers to Allah? Would that be alright?
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Old 07-12-2019, 03:42 PM
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What if someone was holding prayers to Allah? Would that be alright?
It must be OK as there are no lawsuits against.
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:32 PM
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What is that supposed to mean? Would it be different if he held himself as a retired mechanic?



A Bible study is a church now?
If he were playing a mechanic and changing oil for random folks in the parking lot. Yes

Bible study, Church? How does one differentiate? The subject matter is exactly the same.
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:33 PM
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What if someone was holding prayers to Allah? Would that be alright?
Heads would be exploding here on SB.
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