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Old 08-19-2019, 12:16 AM
arleigh arleigh is offline
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Almost every time I leave the house I contemplate the idea of getting home on foot. and this by looking at the traffic and places I might find water or shelter .
My EDC and computer back pack carries all the stuff I anticipate needing for the trip. It changes form time to time depending on the current state of affairs' and the job at hand.
the vehicle is not always the same , motorcycle, truck, car. Each have ear I might need in them for the distance. remember it is better to have and not need then to need and not have. some things might end up as barter for things , or to satisfy a need along the way. if the car is dead I might salvage some of the lights and the battery for lights along the way and convert a bicycle or wheel chair for hauling necessities, for instance having just gone shopping I'm not abandoning the food I just bought. I might just cook it up to preserve it for the trip home.
5 miles or 25 miles can turn into several days to get home . when I was young I might have worked all day and had a search all night 20 miles and work again the fallowing day . when your young you do what you have to , but getting old is a much different problem.
Getting home is not a strait line as the crow flies . Maps are important and compass and orienteering are essential. things change and maps change so that 20 year old map can lead you into nothing but trouble.
I make a red lens for my flashlight so I can safely travel at night and only travel during the day if it can be done without being noticed . and that is near impossible.
Don't think you can sneak around without being noticed if there are dogs in the neighborhood. They won't last long being a security devise , but initially the will be effective . you can bet too that people that live on the fringes of town will have dogs well adjusted to keeping watch. One get's started and you have a whole chorus of tattle tails exposing your presents .
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:16 AM
mtnairkin mtnairkin is offline
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Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
I've tried to estimate this window. I figure anywhere between 72-96 hours (3-4 days) before people start getting dangerously weird. The majority of people are pretty helpful directly after a crisis, but as potable water becomes limited, access to gasoline is cut short, food supplies drop...people will quickly turn. While some petty theft occurs during that time period of a SHTF, serious attacks won't take too long if there's limited law enforcement.

This is pretty interesting and I hadn't see these before. That's a lot of on-board fuel. Even with a gas guzzling truck, that will likely add an additional 1200-1500 miles to your range. If I was traveling 600-800 miles away, and was serious, this would be at the top of my list as a "get home" investment. I will likely get a new truck this next year and this is a looking like an excellent accessory to add...

With that in mind, I have in the past and would recommend considering adding a bike to your vehicle kit if you have room. I have a Montague Folding mountain bike that easily fits in the back seat area of my crew cab for security. If you can stick to even unimproved, gravel/dirt roads, you can still make about 60-90 miles a day, depending on the condition of the roads and it's much less physically taxing than on foot...and you'll use a lot less food in the long run.

I also concur with the recommendations that if you have a destination where you can store a cache, do this...including some fuel you can rotate. If the distance is really 600-800 miles, strongly consider one of those RDS fuel transfer tanks, and also consider adding a mountain bike if forced to dismount from the vehicle. Even with a smaller bugout bag, you can still ride your bike (or add a trailer).


ROCK6



I agree with the fuel cache but fuel is not the only concern. Highways can be blocked either by stalled traffic (highly likely) or by authorities or even by vigilantes who claim a territory. Truckers carrying supplies might have some priority if authorities shut down traffic. Highway blockage is a big reason why I think a bike of some sort would be invaluable. In fact for long or short trips a bike could easily turn out to be one of the most important preps. Also a person needs to think about just how to get that bike across a major river in case the bridges are blocked or gone (think New Madrid).

There is a very good chance that people will not be extremely weird immediately (but on second thought, there are a lot of extremely weird people right now) but depending on the event, one cannot depend on people staying sane for several days.

A lot of posters on this thread also seem to think that a disaster will not be sudden and we'll have beaucoup time make plenty of last minute adjustments. That might be correct, but how many people made last minute adjustments when a large meteor passed close to earth. How much warning will we get when the Yellowstone caldera blows and how many people take extra precautions every time Old Faithful erupts.

On the weird news section on this site, there are people predicting disaster on a daily basis. How many of us really make our preps based on these potential disasters and way out theories? Lotsa normalcy bias out there that outweighs even credible information.
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:45 AM
NateMeans NateMeans is offline
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Same here. I like traveling lighter and having what I need on me. I, too, would bug out as soon as possible in urban environs.

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I always pack a backpack. Stopped using a suitcase long ago. Sometimes even strap down sleeping bag on it. It is easy to move on a bus or train. Planes really hamper what you can pack. My expedition is always ready. I would not look forward to a long walk and scrounging sustenance but could and would if required. If in an urban area, I would start walking Asap just to get out of that environment. Over the years my pack has had great zipper pulls added i.e. a compass, metal match and mini multi tool.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:41 AM
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ROCK6 ROCK6 is offline
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Originally Posted by mtnairkin View Post
I agree with the fuel cache but fuel is not the only concern. Highways can be blocked either by stalled traffic (highly likely) or by authorities or even by vigilantes who claim a territory. Truckers carrying supplies might have some priority if authorities shut down traffic. Highway blockage is a big reason why I think a bike of some sort would be invaluable. In fact for long or short trips a bike could easily turn out to be one of the most important preps. Also a person needs to think about just how to get that bike across a major river in case the bridges are blocked or gone (think New Madrid).
I'm not sure how quickly roadblocks would be set up, but they are very much a high probability for any number of crisis: an active shooter cordon, containing or keeping out rioters, containing any number of pandemics, keeping roads clear for emergency/utility vehicles; and that doesn't even account for natural disasters such as sink holes, land-slides, flooding, earthquakes, etc. This is why I think the window is so narrow on just the broad spectrum of scenario planning.

I fully concur a bicycle (preferably a mountain bike) is a very good idea as part of the emergency transportation plan. You can easily bypass a road block through the woods, carry over smaller bodies of water, or simply stick to other routes that aren't paved roads and likely not targeted. To contain or control a population is easiest when you control the road systems with focus on critical choke points (bridges, passes/gaps, etc.).

As one who both backpacks and mountain bikes, you can cover exponentially more distance (terrain dependent) on a bike than you can on foot...it's far more efficient, uses less calories per mile, and most mountain bikes can traverse many of the more remote hiking trails.

ROCK6
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:09 AM
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merlinfire merlinfire is offline
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Something to keep in mind, if it is specifically a CME, there should be 12-18 hours warning.

Most people will not know what to do. However, if you are mentally prepared to jump when your solar alert app goes off, you could conceivably make it home, or most of the way, by vehicle before it hits, before people know what is going on and the roads close.

But that means not waiting to see what happens, no hesitation. It means maxing out your credit card, renting the biggest SUV you can at the airport, filling the back of it up with gas cans at your first stop on the way out of town, pounding no-doze and driving straight through while the world around you is still just starting to think about things.
I really need to get a solar alert app on my phone.

I only rarely check solar weather and often don't look at my phone or TSB on the weekends....much less on vacations...it would be easy to get caught flat footed.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:12 AM
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merlinfire merlinfire is offline
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I'm surprised most people imagine their home (i.e. all their preps) are immune to shtf given that the most common actual (not imaginary) shtf scenarios involve destruction of one's home by fire, flood, earthquake, etc.

I'm also surprised that most people imagine that if they are far from home when bad things happen, that home will be the safest place to head. It may very well be that being away from home saved your life.

Seems to me a wise prepper bases their plan around what they have with them all the time, and works out from there. Skills over gear.

Recommend folks read anti-fragile, not a prepper book, but should be - its about mindset.
All depends on where you live. If you don't live on a flood plain, tornado alley, or hurricane-prone zone, if you're not directly on top of a fault, etc, home probably is a great choice.

Now there's no way to know precisely from where danger will arise. But home is a place you know and where you're prepared to make a stand. Otherwise you're a refugee living on the run, and that is the hardest life of all even in the best of times.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:17 AM
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merlinfire merlinfire is offline
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Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
I've tried to estimate this window. I figure anywhere between 72-96 hours (3-4 days) before people start getting dangerously weird. The majority of people are pretty helpful directly after a crisis, but as potable water becomes limited, access to gasoline is cut short, food supplies drop...people will quickly turn. While some petty theft occurs during that time period of a SHTF, serious attacks won't take too long if there's limited law enforcement.

While the scenarios are all different, I've averaged that window to 3-4 days where I have to make a concerted effort to get home or reassess the plan.
Besides the general assessment you have to think about your town, neighborhood, and neighbors, if any. I live in a rural area but on a road just one turn off a state route. Also most of my neighbors are chill but one neighbor is a convicted felon with a grudge against some of my in-laws living on the other side of him. Also he is basically a sociopath. I hate to say it, but I figure if SHTF I'll end up having to shoot him sooner or later just to protect my family. If he realizes that it's SHTF and that we're not home, he'll be getting into my stuff. It's concerning. My "get home window" is probably less than 24 hours. If the wife is home at least she knows how to protect herself.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:52 PM
francessanne francessanne is offline
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So I've thought this over a bunch of times and there's some cold hard facts you have to accept.

1. If you can't get home within a pretty short window and it's really all that bad, you may arrive to find your stuff already looted unless you are really, really remote. This raises the question of whether getting home is really the goal if you'd have to make a month-long journey, only to find the place looted or even worse, occupied (as it likely would be if it had significant natural resources or amenities not easily carried away).

2. If you are willing to spend out the money, you could leave large caches at family's houses where you spend time visiting. For instance, I go down with my family to see my grandmother in TN a couple times a year. We're a solid 6 hour drive from home at that point, usually having to stop for gas once even if we had a full tank of premium (which, by the way, means going the quickest/shortest route using interstates that would almost certainly be impassible by this point, if you estimated an additional 30% fuel usage for funding alternate sub-optimal detours you might still not have enough). So I have thought what if I left a bunch of preps there, along with some gear and equipment. That way if SHTF while we're down there, we have a little bit of depth besides what we brought with us.

3. People have made threads about leaving caches in self-storage places on or near likely transportation routes. But that's significant cost with no guarantee you'd be able to access it unless you're willing to always carry some bolt cutters in the trunk. If you spaced caches out every 200 miles along a 600 mile corridor, so that you're never more than 100 miles from a cache, a 5x5 or 5x10 would easily cost you $1200ish a year. For rent for your caches. Not a great use of your money especially if you don't travel that often.

4. Again, if traveling by vehicle, another possible solution would be to focus on extending your range. The obvious answer there is to add external mounting points for durable fuel cans that would be kept full during trips. 3x 5-gal jerry cans = 300 miles, give or take in your SUV. If you want to be able to navigate past other cars more easily get a motorcycle, and if you have a small family, a sidecar. store some extra gas on the motorbike and you're back in business. Most of the examples and research I've seen seems to suggest EMP would not kill most vehicles unless they were really close to the pulse.

5. Flying is obviously the worst case scenario. There's not much you can do. Pre-stage preps at recurring destinations.
im just throwing this out there...i once knew a guy who was setting up 'addresses' for mail away from home...he would drive into the desert a certain way, dig a post hole and put up a mailbox. no guarantee it might still be there when you show up, but an inconspicuous way to hide some preps...200 feet right of the mailbox.
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