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Old 08-18-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Survival Sam View Post
The light weight is based on SKILL and experience, not just buying gear that sits in it's wrapper with tags attached dreaming I'm going to carry an 80 lb INCH bag around for hundreds of miles.

The more skill you have the less gear you need. I don't need anything but the basics to survive. I can improvise even the 5C's, but I still have them. That's the core of the kit and for fire, water and food, there is triple level redundancy. Heck, my GHB is 10 lbs.... Nobody is going to survive in the woods forever. What happens when your hatchet breaks? Your steel pot is damaged? Your compass is lost?

I can navigate from my watch, the sun and stick method and the stars. Yeah I can make a burn bowl and a hatchet out of natural materials. But living the life of a homeless person isn't living...
You still didn't say what you imagined doing with the skill and experience.

I'll try this again since I'm not sure you even read my post.

A bug out is not just a matter of wilderness survival until rescue. Like say, from a plane crash in the wilderness or something. It's not Survivor man. Survivor man doesn't have to worry about getting shot in the back of the head while he makes a snare or figure out how to sneak through the woods that a thousand other refugees are camping int.

It's running away. That means something or someone is after you. If you are starting out in a populated area that could mean hundreds of thousands of other people in competition with you for food, water, camping spots. This is not a buschcrafting situation. You aren't squatting down and carving yourself a bowl, your crawling inside culvert and praying nobody finds you and the fallout blows the other way.

You are in extreme competition with your fellow man AND nature all at the same time.

And its not going to be for just a few days. If whatever SHTF is that you think running out into the woods is safer than staying at home with all your preps then its a big one, some kind of massive, unprecedented apocalyptic event. You don't go live under a mylar blanket because your house burned down, you go stay in the motel the red cross booked for you.

Just walking out your back door with a backpack full of wilderness skills and no where to go is likely to result in you ending up walking up six days later when your out of food on bubba the meth head who drove up in the woods with his 4x4, five cases of beer, and MRE's and is now entertaining himself by shooting backpackers.

So I say again....what is your plan where are you going, why are you going there and what are you going there to get away from?

Mission dictates gear. Just saying 'Muh skillzzz' over and over again is not a mission. What is a good idea or not to take is completely dependent on what you are doing. You could either have not nearly enough gear, or far too much, but nobody here can tell you that unless we know what you think you are going to do with it.
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:27 PM
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For the sake of pure usefulness, I would keep the Kukri machete. (By the way which brand do you have? Apparently, you don't have a flimsy one to be able to chop two huge trees.)

As many can attest (myself included) mylar is fine IF you are not freezing cold to begin with. Surprisingly, people have gotten hypothermia on summer nights especially if raingear is torn, or they accidentally got dunked into a creek/river, etc. I would consider packing at least a wool blanket for an extra insulating layer between you and the mylar, because wool will retain its warm insulating properties even when soaking wet.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:50 PM
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It would be nice to see a gear list breakdown with weights.

I can do 25lbs and get by with backpacking four seasons. That includes shelter, sleep system good to ~ 15F comfortably, saw, knife, plenty of warm clothing, bear spray, food for a week, and quite a bit of gear given the weight.

I agree, mission dictates gear.

If I'm in the desert, I need to be able to carry quite a bit of water. When I'm in the mnts here I almost never carry water because there are ample sources all over the place. In the south, I could probably get away with 20lbs because it just doesn't get cold like it does further north at elevation.
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:42 PM
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I don't use it often, but when I do, boy am I glad I brought a handaxe. In a situation where calories matter, it makes shorter work of taxing jobs. I find I use it more when making shelters than anything. I rarely split wood to burn it.

I've got some recalibration to do. I moved somewhat recently. Up north I've slept many comfortable nights in the lean-to that pine forest branches provide generously and carried only a sleeping bag. I don't think the vegetation around me will afford the same comfort and I may need more.
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:53 PM
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I would take a hand axe over a machete or big knife any day. I like the flat back side for pounding and the axe head for cutting.
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:56 PM
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That's a good point. I may have to rethink my load out.

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I would take a hand axe over a machete or big knife any day. I like the flat back side for pounding and the axe head for cutting.
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NateMeans View Post
You shaved some serious weight! As a minimalist by nature, I'm always looking to retool my BOB to just the essentials. Keep what you need, nothing you don't.
Yeah, once I realized that a BOB is not a camping bag I really retooled it for something where I actually need to grab and go fast and I pared that down to a fire because everything else I have time to assemble a proper long range kit.

I'm now down to: documents, food, clothing, some chocolate covered coffee beans, water, a med kit, and toiletries. I keep all my EDC gear on a small table which is covered with a shemagh. In the event of a fire I throw on clothes, grab the shemagh with everything else in it and the BOB and I'm out the door. It's everything I need and nothing I don't. It does what I need and lets me get out to my car, or just out fast.
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Old 08-22-2019, 07:01 PM
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I like where you head is at. The perfectionist in me can be my own worst enemy. Keeping just the essentials for you (whatever those are for your needs) helps keep things simple. I know I can over think my gear sometimes.

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Yeah, once I realized that a BOB is not a camping bag I really retooled it for something where I actually need to grab and go fast and I pared that down to a fire because everything else I have time to assemble a proper long range kit.

I'm now down to: documents, food, clothing, some chocolate covered coffee beans, water, a med kit, and toiletries. I keep all my EDC gear on a small table which is covered with a shemagh. In the event of a fire I throw on clothes, grab the shemagh with everything else in it and the BOB and I'm out the door. It's everything I need and nothing I don't. It does what I need and lets me get out to my car, or just out fast.
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Old 08-22-2019, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Survival Sam View Post
I've taken a few BOB trips recently to test my gear and decided to ditch gear that I either didn't use or didn't REALLY need.

Thoughts?
A survival pack, as opposed to a sporting pack, has only one function.

To get you to a known and designated place of safety.

If anything but what you are needing to get to the prearranged place is in your survival pack then it is weight slowing you down.

Guessing what you need in the pack is foolish. Go make the trek and learn what you truly need.

As for packing "just in case" what you thought it might come in handy or piling a bunch of gear in with no planned destination in mind is deadly foolish. You can never carry everything you might need to live indefinitely out of a pack. Nor can you set out with no planned destination in mind. Old frontier pioneers used pack trains. Unless you are stabling a bunch of horses, mules, and donkeys then you can't carry everything you need for heading out with no fixed destination.

Go identify your bugout destination. Go stock it for indefinite living time. Go make the trek enough to learn what you need to get there. Then pack exactly what you need to get the trek accomplished. If you want some emergency extra reserves for that trek then go cache them.

You can't put your future life on your back.
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Old 08-22-2019, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by NateMeans View Post
I like where you head is at. The perfectionist in me can be my own worst enemy. Keeping just the essentials for you (whatever those are for your needs) helps keep things simple. I know I can over think my gear sometimes.
I think for me (and many others) there's a tendency to start with the scenario and then keep branching off in "what ifs," or to just jump straight to worst case. It's important to prep for specific scenarios and to start with the most probable. I have to work to keep that in check. There are still things I include, like rain gear, because if things are really bad I want to be able to grab that bag, run out in my house coat, and still be okay.

That said I still have a sillcock key in there because it's tiny, I bought it, I don't want to throw it out, and I can't think of a better place for it
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:53 PM
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I think for me (and many others) there's a tendency to start with the scenario and then keep branching off in "what ifs," or to just jump straight to worst case. It's important to prep for specific scenarios and to start with the most probable. I have to work to keep that in check. There are still things I include, like rain gear, because if things are really bad I want to be able to grab that bag, run out in my house coat, and still be okay.

That said I still have a sillcock key in there because it's tiny, I bought it, I don't want to throw it out, and I can't think of a better place for it
You only need a sillcock key if your already tested path includes water outlets that need it.

The "what if" needs are only validated if you already are testing your planned paths.

Too many make bugout packs without testing their bugout plan or having a good destination locked in and prepped.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:15 AM
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On the subject of moving magazines & NVGs to your BOB...

BLUF: I'd generally recommend against that (assuming you are thinking of moving all/most ammo to your pack or simply attaching a parasitic assault pack to your BOB). Adopt some sort of on-body load carrier option instead.

Here's why:

1. Moving under a BOB while armed with a long gun (or even just a handgun) usually implies human threats. (Lets leave off discussion of animal defense for this one.) Assuming SHTF circumstances have forced you into actually rucking up under a BOB (as opposed to recreational hiking), the primary reason you are moving armed is for self defense from unfriendly people. Possibly a gunfight.

2. Several centuries of practical small arms employment has almost universally resulted in combatants (that's you) carrying weapons in hand... and their ammunition & water on their body. And in modern times, critical items like night vision, trauma kits, or small radios. Because...

3. One of the first things that typically happens when you come under effective fire is that you drop a worn pack. So frequent an occurrence that most military packs are purpose designed for quick cutaway while running for cover. Even if you don't immediately cut it away, you'll shrug it off once you've gone to ground behind cover. Which then leads to a predicament...

4. If you are in the company of other armed friends, you may establish a hasty perimeter, strong point, defensive line, assault line, or fire & maneuver plan, while generally leaving behind most anything not directly supporting immediate use of weapons, comms, water, medical trauma, or target acquisition. Things like your backpack full of food and environmental gear. None of that shiznit is useful in a firefight. It inhibits you ability to maneuver, fire from the prone, haul ass, or utilize micro-terrain for cover. Or egress from a vehicle.

5. If you are alone, your problems are magnified ten-fold. Especially if you have to beat feet and open up some distance in a hurry. Especially if those firing at you aren't encumbered by backpacks. You are gonna need to win a foot race... while under fire. Wearing that pack... you won't. At least not for very far.

If you win your engagement (or shake your pursuers), you can possibly go back for your dropped pack after the drama is over. If you lose... the pack is probably unrecoverable. Possibly irrelevant.

6. Live fire events have a habit of forcing you to move involuntarily around the terrain. With that precious pack left at a starting point (back where you first made contact). Whether a few meters back... or several hundred. The hiking sustainment pack won't help you win your fight, so you lose it until that fight is resolved. One way or another.

Yes, in some thickly vegetated terrain, it might be possible to shag ass with it on your back (Break Contact Drill), but at a certain point, you'll shed everything that slows you down while getting chased or flanked. Starting with that succubus on your back... no matter how ostensibly light it is. About the only exception is if that pack contains your critical winter survival gear. Where its loss likely ensures your later death from freezing/hypothermia. In which case you have to make a quick & hard choice about retaining that weight on your back. Die now... or die later.

7. There's an old military mnemonic that employs the letters of the word "SURVIVAL" as a guideline for accomplishing just that. The letter "A" stands for "Act like the natives and acquire their skills". People typically think that this just means emulating primitive tribal peoples by employing their bushcraft or environmental survival techniques. It does mean so, but not only that.

It also means observing how ALL subject matter experts function. No matter the location, society, or endeavor. The gear they use. The techniques they use. The practices they employ. How they handle their typical natural or working environments. How first world technological peoples handle theirs. Including modern soldiers, cops, or other armed formations. In other words, if you go armed, it's wise to emulate the practices of those who go armed professionally... and successfully.

8. In no modern military do ground combatants carry all (or even the bulk of) their personal long gun or handgun ammo in their packs. (I'm talking Riflemen... not Weapon Crews.) Instead, they carry a combat load of ammo on their body. Suspended from some type of harness, vest, slung pouch, belt, armor carrier, etc. Because they know that their packs are going to get dropped in a hurry; probably in a fairly bullet swept & exposed location. Wired tight units also carry their NVGs, water, and personal comms the same way.

Street cops carry primary reload ammo on their gun belts... not in some pack left in a patrol vehicle.

9. Everyone may carry spare ammo in go-bags, rucksacks, backpacks, assault packs, pack-mounted external shingles or bandoleers, etc. But the basic wherewithal to fight is always carried on-body. Able to be reached by hand while facing the enemy. Because in a fight, that ammo must be rapidly accessible and travel with you at a dead run, an exhausting low crawl, or during an effort to get really small and flat behind the tiniest cover. Or to reload in just a few desperate seconds.

Ammo carried in/on your backpack is ammo you can't reach efficiently or fast. Or at all. It's ammo that does not support rapid reloads. And it's very likely ammo that gets dropped and left behind at some point. Or left behind inside of a vehicle you just rapidly abandoned. NVGs left behind inside of an abandoned pack would be like losing a Super Power. Like Batman leaving behind his Bat Belt. Like Thor without his Hammer. Better that it's kept on your body, no matter the inconvenience.

10. Act Like the Natives. Professional combatants carry their ammo, water, NVGs, trauma medical gear, and small radios on their body. That's called a Clue. You should do likewise. If the situation warrants carry of a weapon... it warrants carrying your ammo properly set up to fight with.

Spare rifle ammo mounted on the outside of a ruck? Sure. Primary ammo & passive NODs anywhere but on-body? No.

I spent just shy of 35 years in the US Army developing the above opinions. All of that time served in operational SOF units. 2/75 Rangers and Group. I've lived the things I mentioned. YMMV.
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Old 08-23-2019, 05:28 AM
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Spare rifle ammo mounted on the outside of a ruck? Sure. Primary ammo & passive NODs anywhere but on-body? No.

I spent just shy of 35 years in the US Army developing the above opinions. All of that time served in operational SOF units. 2/75 Rangers and Group. I've lived the things I mentioned. YMMV.
For those not familiar with this post full of gold nuggets, read it a couple more times and even consider copy-paste for inclusion of your training, SOPs, battle drills, etc. Astronomy just gave you some free advice many have paid with years of lessons learned...

Many of Astronomy's points mirror my own experiences. Doing break-contact battle drills with a 45+pound pack will quickly clue you in on why your pack should have "break-free" straps. From my early career experience, I can tell you that you won't make good distance or speed running up a 45-degree hill with both your pack and fighting gear while trying to break contact

One concept I grew up with was having a layered concept or "gear lines". Many subscribe to such a methodology and it applies to combat as much as survival.

Line 1: This is typically your daily EDC, but could be robust enough to serve as an emergency E&E styled loadout. The main aspect is that this is the stuff that is on your immediate person, be it pants-belt or pockets. I've seen some use a fanny pack or even those doing more tactically-oriented training using a more modern "battle belt".

Line 2: This has several variations. For combat kit, it's your fighting load. This has exactly what Astronomy identified such as your primary weapon/ammo, NODs, water, compass, etc. I use a similar concept for my backpacking, primitive kit loads, etc. Line 2 augments Line 1 with possibly some redundancy, and a little more focused on extending your survival and fighting capacity. On the more outdoors-focused concept, I can go as small and light as a Hill People Gear Kit Bag, commercial lumbar pack, or something like the RIBZ front pack systems. I do try and find something that will integrate with my larger, Line-3 pack system. Even when backpacking, if I have to "dump my pack" in order to hike down into a steep ravine to collect water, I keep my Line 2 with me. While backpacking, my pack is with me about 90% of the time; my Line 1/2 kit is with me 100% of the time.

Line 3: Your larger sustainment and resupply system; basically your pack. Where I think you should be able to "survive, fight, and/or E&E" with your Line 1 and Line 2 kit for anywhere from 3 days to a week, your pack adds more critical, often bulky items we typically associate with backpacking, or gear listed in most "bugout" lists. Your pack could also have "mission-specific" items that aren't an immediate necessity when traveling.

While I do think practicing those immediate action drills are importnat, which may include dumping your pack to either fight or flee, there are other reasons to have those sub-layers or lines of survival kit. Traveling on foot in a non-permissive environment will require not only stealth, but patience, observation tools, recce and recon skills. Dumping your pack and taking mission-specific kit (binoculars, wire cutters, water filtration, fishing/snaring kit, etc.) along with your Line 2 kit to recon is a typical TTP. If the area has viable threats, it's much easier to break contact and E&E your way back to your hide or rally point without a pack...and you won't lose your pack either. Additionally, even if you have to vacate the area, your pack should be hidden well enough that you can return after things quite down to retrieve it.

Bottom line, your "bugout bag" is important, but it shouldn't be the only basket with all the eggs. Your Line 1/EDC should handle everyday issues, and you should also have some form of "Line 2" kit that can bridge that gap between Lines 1 and 3, yet be robust enough to serve as a 72-hour survival kit, a fighting kit, or an E&E kit.

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Old 08-23-2019, 01:30 PM
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What Astronomy says makes perfect sense... for military people facing military people.
The big Crisis is different. First of, why ANYBODY would attack (shoot at) bugouter. They would only do that under two basic scenarios:
1. Ambush. He won't be shot at: one shot one kill. Nobody woul do it without being sure.
2. "Meeting engagement". Everything is possible under this situation, but the situation itself is not particularly likely (correct me if feel the need). The guy would not be alone for a hundred miles around. Others, dozens or even hundreds would be there, going the same way, mostly. Which means they would not risk shooting at anyone, unless absolutely necessary AND with success guaranteed.
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Old 08-23-2019, 05:14 PM
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A side topic to add to Astronomy and Rock6; wear your sling under your pack, or don't have it attached to your pack.

Little PFC me figured that out doing my first big boy contact drill when I dropped my pack and all 40lbs of it pulled my rifle sling pretty securely around my neck and I fell backwards like a silo hit by a tractor.

Secondary lesson learned; helmets are handy.
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Old 08-23-2019, 06:39 PM
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What Astronomy says makes perfect sense... for military people facing military people.
The big Crisis is different. First of, why ANYBODY would attack (shoot at) bugouter. They would only do that under two basic scenarios:
1. Ambush. He won't be shot at: one shot one kill. Nobody woul do it without being sure.
2. "Meeting engagement". Everything is possible under this situation, but the situation itself is not particularly likely (correct me if feel the need). The guy would not be alone for a hundred miles around. Others, dozens or even hundreds would be there, going the same way, mostly. Which means they would not risk shooting at anyone, unless absolutely necessary AND with success guaranteed.
You underestimate the depravity of humanity under crisis. Conflict avoidance is avoiding as many people as you can that you don't know (or that don't know you). What we've described are how you layer your kit if you are ambushed or shot at and the battle drills necessary to get you out of the kill zone or at least to the closest terrain feature that provides cover. That's not just combat, but any less-permissive environment with the potential for other hostile actors post-crisis.

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A side topic to add to Astronomy and Rock6; wear your sling under your pack, or don't have it attached to your pack.

Little PFC me figured that out doing my first big boy contact drill when I dropped my pack and all 40lbs of it pulled my rifle sling pretty securely around my neck and I fell backwards like a silo hit by a tractor.

Secondary lesson learned; helmets are handy.
With a pack on, I keep my sling under my pack straps/suspension. Regardless, I also have a QD sling is that's necessary. The sling isn't as maneuverable, but I can pop it off if needed for more than snap shooting or suppressive fire before dropping the pack. I've known others that just loop it over their neck (for two-point slings). My favorite is a single point sling made by are a friend who was in Corps LRRS for the Iraq invasion. I don't care for single point slings much, but his are excellent, especially when wearing a pack. The placement is right in front with enough mobility to use, and a quick detach shackle (God, this is an OLD picture).





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Old 08-23-2019, 07:09 PM
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I used to roll with single points but I got tired of getting hit in the nuts. Firmly in the "2 point around the neck" corner these days.
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Old 08-24-2019, 01:55 AM
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In this era of truly useful advanced tactical slings, you might find the following difficult to believe...

For decades (post-Vietnam; mid 70s into the mid 90s), almost nobody working in US Army Ranger, LRSD/LRSU, or SF units used slings during patrol movements. Weapons were carried in your hands. No slings at all, or an occasional 550 cord jungle sling taped down to a butt stock. Or a dummy cord. Used for things like rock climbing, skiing/snow shoeing, water crossings, air-mobile ops, rope & ladder exfils, or small boat movements. Radio operators tended to employ them more than anyone else (allowing them to have a free hand while talking on the move). If you needed to temporarily secure a CAR-15 to your body, a rubber boat, a parachute, or a single rope bridge...the M16 style solid carry handle, sling loops, or fixed front sight base (and a carabiner) provided handy and reliable attaching points.

For example, during 1977-1980, issue M16 slings were SOP proscribed for use during patrol movement at 2nd Ranger Battalion. Employed by exception only (as mentioned). Everyone carried a sling. In their ruck or buttpack. Or carefully folded flat and secured to the butt stock of rifles. But they were used infrequently. Slung weapons were not useful for frequent fence crossings (especially electric ones); for low/high crawling; or for threading high or low tunnels through heavy brush, wait-a-minute vines, jungle, rain forest. Nor especially useful when climbing through structural windows, rolling over wall parapets, or low crawling through building rat-holes or tunnels.

Slings were generally viewed as an impediment to moving through thickly vegetated terrain while patrolling at night (except for those humping crew served weapons). Slung rifles also interfered with certain SOP hand/arm signals. And the ability to quietly lay a weapon down when patrol base, deliberate ambush line, or recon of an objective noise discipline was paramount. Even when routinely jumping exposed rifles (slung through parachute harnesses), those slings were either dismounted soon after landing or folded tightly against the weapon with ranger bands, tie downs, or tape.

There was also a unit Bayonet Culture. We carried 'em. Rifle combatives/disarms, pugil stick training, bayonet assault courses, etc. Slings work against that.

Dummy cords were In. Slings were mostly Out.

So I was taught by my SEA veteran mentors. Guys who had served in MACV-SOG teams, SF Special Projects, LRRPs, or Ranger Companies in Southeast Asia. This despite numerous photos of many recon teams utilizing them in combat during that war. Slings were generally out of favor with similar type units after that conflict. So I rolled until at least the mid-90s. So did everyone else. Not a sling in sight while patrolling.

This in a day before pistol transition drills and heavy emphasis on team CQB raids in urban environments.

It was also a day of pretty rudimentary issue USGI nylon slings that offered no great advantages other than keeping the gun attached to your body... while interfering with a lot of what you routinely needed to do. They weren't especially good at providing an enhanced firing position. Not in the same way as adjustable leather slings of an earlier rifleman's era. Military slings were frankly better suited for Drill & Ceremony marching than they were for patrolling.

Sounds like heresy in this golden age of innovative tactical slings and well-oiled rifle to pistol transition drills, but...

From that experience, I learned that, most of the time, moving on foot with a rifle held combat ready, you can function quite effectively without any sling whatsoever. Same thing for vehicular use.

Just something to keep in the back of your mind.
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:09 AM
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Yes, I'm guilty of going down that rabbit hole. from time to time, too. Sometimes it's just trial and error.


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Originally Posted by BearShark View Post
I think for me (and many others) there's a tendency to start with the scenario and then keep branching off in "what ifs," or to just jump straight to worst case. It's important to prep for specific scenarios and to start with the most probable. I have to work to keep that in check. There are still things I include, like rain gear, because if things are really bad I want to be able to grab that bag, run out in my house coat, and still be okay.

That said I still have a sillcock key in there because it's tiny, I bought it, I don't want to throw it out, and I can't think of a better place for it
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Old 08-24-2019, 11:23 AM
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I've taken a few BOB trips recently to test my gear and decided to ditch gear that I either didn't use or didn't REALLY need.

-E-Tool: Only thing I ever used this for was digging holes to crap in. I could do this with a stick and save myself 2 lbs...

-Camp stove and fuel canister: It was one of the backpacking isopro ones. Initially I wanted it to stay low key, not have a fire, but then I decided a water filter I had with me provided me with clean water to drink without fire, as did water purification tablets, and I packed food that didn't need cooking, such as GORP. Weight saved, 2.5 lbs. I still have a stainless container for cooking, but would only do so if the coast is clear.

-Kukri machete: this helped me chop two HUGE trees that had fallen over the road when car camping years ago, but other than that I've never used it. Weight saved, 1.5 lbs.

-Becker BK2: I carry a Mora companion in my vest and a pocket knife. 99% of the time I use my pocket knife with the Mora as a backup. I also have a multi-tool. I don't plan on batoning wood, it's a dumb use for a knife anyways.

-0 degree sleeping bag: unless it's winter, I did just fine with mylar blankets overnight. I was toasty warm all night. They are loud AF though....Weight saved, 5 lbs.

-Hatchet: Not as good as a splitting maul and wedge, and risky when you're tired, cold and hungry. Don't want to risk injury. If I needed to split wood, I'd rather have this than a knife that I risk breaking, but it's not necessary IMO. Weight saved, 2 lbs.

My BoB weight is now 20 lbs including the pack weight (Blackhawk 3 day assault pack at around 4 lbs) and 7 lbs for survival vest. Weight saved, 13 lbs. This does not count ammo, NV goggles (separate kit).

I'm debating taking magazines and NV gear and attaching to the outside of my BOB so that I just have ONE bag. Only beef with that is my "tactical" pack is much lighter than a BOB and designed purely for fighting (water, gloves, IFAK, mags, monocular, etc, batteries, etc.)

Or I can use a slightly larger pack to store it all, but my concern with this is maneuverability.


Thoughts?



As a non-backpacker but a former Boy Scout leader who has backpacked in the wilderness, I will try to give some of my ideas. I found that, as long as a person knows how to either find dry wood or sapwood in a downpour, your best stove is a wood stove. Mine is a bit black from lots of use, but it has two SS pots, one of which can be used as a frypan and both have handles. And you can boil water fast because it has a battery run fan. I keep the stove in a camp sack inside another sack to keep the soot from ruining clothes in pack. I remember one trip where we were in the mountains and it rained steadily for 3 days. I was the only person who could start a fire due partly to cold weather. Those fuel stoves don't do well in cold weather.

If I had to evacuate, I would take a Wiggie Bag which is good below zero and is pretty compact. If you have the room, you could take a Wiggie mattress pad or just a regular 4'long camp mattress. And a bivy bag will keep you dry in a downpour, inside your sleeping bag.

For water purification, I took the small Sawyer filter. I used to use other kinds until the Sawyer came out. It used to be a real problem not getting contamination.

For crapping I used a small orange plastic shovel a foot long. I've been to wilderness camps that hadn't been cleaned for months and stunk so bad that I would have to climb up a hill, use my digger and do my thing.

For food, I take a lot of energy bars, Emergen-C, and lots of nuts and seeds. I carried a Glock knife with about an 8-inch blade with serrated edge for sawing, a small Swiss Army knife, knife sharpener, hand, body, toe warmers, extra eye glasses, head lamp, Streamlight small flashlight, extra batteries, tactical flashlight/extra batteries, first aid kit with Quick-clot.

If a choice between a saw and a hatchet, take a saw. I can split wood some with a rock and knife but with a saw you might have to saw wood to bridge a creek. I used an aluminum saw system which has different types of saw blades and when saw is used, works like an old woodsman buck saw, and it will easily go through 12-inch logs. And nut'n fancy online recommends taking along WD-40 to make sawing easier.

I would highly recommend going to the Nut'n Fancy (TnP) you tube channel. Besides being a gun-reviewer and a Lt. Col. in the Air Force Reserve, he show what to take in a pack and he and his dog have packed a lot in the high mountains of Utah.

As I grew older I switched to day hiking and used Cabella's 2500 cubic inch day pack and would carry it packed full, due to the fact that I was a wilderness hiker, rarely passing another soul, and always going alone. On most hikes, including with Boy Scouts, I carried a SA Ruger Blackhawk in .357 magnum. Hope this helps.
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