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Old 08-18-2019, 05:17 PM
T-Rex T-Rex is offline
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Default Chicken or the egg..... (AR-308 question)



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I am looking at the future and am seriously considering building an AR-308.

My question is ammo. While I am collecting parts for the rifle, I am looking at ammo sales thinking that I should grab some when I see a good price.

The rifle with no ammo is a club, but the ammo with no rifle is a paper weight.

Does it make sense to grab both as I go, or build the rifle first and worry about ammo later?

I do not want to go into what I may or may not already have, that is not the question.
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:26 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Get the lower.

Then buy whatever is a good deal, more parts or ammo.
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:28 PM
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Well, .308 is "just deer rifle", not nearly as powerful as a atomic nuclear mass destruction anti satellite planet killing death star AR-15. Just ask any of the mind controlled.

Sorry, those leftist marionettes just defy reason...

Already have a 5.56 and a 7.62x39, .308 is next on the bucket list. Was going to start the collection with 308 but wanted to build it. The different AR-308 brands dont play well with each other for mixing and matching parts

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Old 08-18-2019, 06:20 PM
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I'd grab not only ammo but reloading components too and get a good supply of reloadable brass. I mostly use Hornady components for my reloading habits because I think they make good stuff and I really respect how they support the gun community in 2A issues. .308 ammo prices have been going up significantly, so I'd rather have the ammo on hand. More people would be willing to part with their guns than an ammo stockpile I've found.

Right now though, surplus Malaysian ball is going for $0.40/rd and it's pretty good stuff out of my PTR-91s. Getting about 2-2.5" groups at 100yrds using a 3x prism scope. Reliable ignition, accurate, and comes with a free sealed .50 cal ammo can.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:46 PM
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This site can show you good deals on ammo & reloading components. I don't own any calibers that I don't also relaod. I do have some calibers that I can reload for but don't currently own.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/308-winchester

https://ammoseek.com/reloading/bullets/.308-diameter/

https://ammoseek.com/reloading/prime...=Large%20Rifle


You can also search for brass, powder, misc. on there.
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:22 AM
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In my opinion, keep the AR in 5.56, plenty of ammo. If you want a bigger gun, do the 308 in a bolt gun, as a second rifle. The 308 is a great cartridge, works in a short action, easy to reload for, plenty of components available, and very accurate. If you really want it nice, get a competent smith to put an aftermarket barrel on, then it really shines!
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Stob View Post
In my opinion, keep the AR in 5.56, plenty of ammo. If you want a bigger gun, do the 308 in a bolt gun, as a second rifle. The 308 is a great cartridge, works in a short action, easy to reload for, plenty of components available, and very accurate. If you really want it nice, get a competent smith to put an aftermarket barrel on, then it really shines!
We've had this discussion numerous times. A quality .308 semi-auto (especially in AR format) can do everything an average bolt gun can do...plus more. Typically, the only consolation is aesthetics/looks, and to some degree, weight.

Go with Nomad's recommendation. Get he receiver first. If you see an ammo deal, jump on it as you continue to source and search parts for your build. That "egg", will need feed down the road anyways, so load up on deals...

ROCK6
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:39 AM
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I have 1,500 rounds of 12 gauge bird shot in my preps but no shot gun. Not that I don't want a gun, just to many other things on my list and thought I should have some 12 gauge rounds and could easily aquire a shot gun in shtf later but the bullets would be way harder to come by.
I have 3 scar 17's, 1 LWRC Repr, and 1 POF Revolution, all in 7.62nato.
Have 1 ar15 and one scar 16 in 5.56.
5.56 is lighter and easier to shoot, but in SHTF I want punch and distance. I can shoot through a 24" pine with the 7.62nato and have been chopping down trees with it literally after say 10 trips to my range. Turning cover into concealment!
I would rather shoot my 5.56 if it would do the same, but it just doesn't so I train with the large frame rifles.
How much ammo do you plan to buy? A quality rifle will cost you 2k or more. But ammo to feed it could cost more. I'd start buying ammo now. Then take your time and really consider what you want for your rifle and do it once and buy what you want for the rifle when you figure that out. And then keep buying ammo.

As for my choice if you have any interest in the above LMK and I'll compare.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:32 AM
T-Rex T-Rex is offline
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Been looking at lowers online, but not locally yet. I agree that is where I should start. Even if I end up with a few rounds for a rifle that I don't have, I'm fairly certain that I would be able to find some one who has a rifle and needs ammo.

Also like the suggestion of buying the reloading supplies. Probably already have powder, but still need more.

The idea of buying a bolt rifle is interesting. I do believe that the libtards will find a way to take our semi-autos within the next 10 years or so. At least with a bolt rifle I could hand it down to a child for as long as they are allowed....

Many things to hink about. 'Course I have been thinking on this for too many years already. I need to get my butt into the buying mode while I still can.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
We've had this discussion numerous times. A quality .308 semi-auto (especially in AR format) can do everything an average bolt gun can do...plus more.
Except accuracy. I suggested the rifle be fitted with an aftermarket barrel, and done right, there isn't a semi-auto made that would be as accurate.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:56 PM
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Hmm, tough call as no idea on what your $ restrictions are.

In short I’d go with @Nomad, 2nds recommendation & work up from there.

Don’t forget to keep an eye out for magazine deals either, being a new platform for you. Assuming you don’t have any ATM.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Stob View Post
Except accuracy. I suggested the rifle be fitted with an aftermarket barrel, and done right, there isn't a semi-auto made that would be as accurate.
It's not the rifle's accuracy that is the problem. The majority of shooters can't even shoot to the limited potential of a budget bolt gun. I still contend a quality semi-auto is just as accurate as a bolt gun for an average to above-average shooter. Optics don't help either; they either refine one's skill or exacerbate it.

If you want to talk bench-rest, target shooting, bolt guns will have an advantage. I'm focused on realistic shooting scenarios from hunting to combat. 99% of realistic accuracy is more about the trigger puller than the platform.

I'm not sniper, but I was easily outshooting two gentlemen with bolt guns. Only shooting at 100 meters and they were firing from a sled with one shot and waiting 15 minutes between shots (not making a single difference). They had far better optics in the 14x range. I was simply shooting a very accurate POF Revolution 308 AR10-style (more accurate than I'm capable of), surplus ammo, max 4x scope, from a bench unsupported. Their groups looked like a shotgun blast, mine were right at 1.5" MOA and while it wasn't rapid fire, it wasn't deliberately slow. The platform had nothing to do with it and inherent accuracy is meaningless without the skill to maximize it.

I do agree, one can make a quality bolt action extremely accurate (more accurate than most custom semi-autos), but few have the skill, discipline, or dedication to really make a noticeable difference...

ROCK6
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
It's not the rifle's accuracy that is the problem. The majority of shooters can't even shoot to the limited potential of a budget bolt gun. I still contend a quality semi-auto is just as accurate as a bolt gun for an average to above-average shooter. Optics don't help either; they either refine one's skill or exacerbate it.

If you want to talk bench-rest, target shooting, bolt guns will have an advantage. I'm focused on realistic shooting scenarios from hunting to combat. 99% of realistic accuracy is more about the trigger puller than the platform.

I'm not sniper, but I was easily outshooting two gentlemen with bolt guns. Only shooting at 100 meters and they were firing from a sled with one shot and waiting 15 minutes between shots (not making a single difference). They had far better optics in the 14x range. I was simply shooting a very accurate POF Revolution 308 AR10-style (more accurate than I'm capable of), surplus ammo, max 4x scope, from a bench unsupported. Their groups looked like a shotgun blast, mine were right at 1.5" MOA and while it wasn't rapid fire, it wasn't deliberately slow. The platform had nothing to do with it and inherent accuracy is meaningless without the skill to maximize it.

I do agree, one can make a quality bolt action extremely accurate (more accurate than most custom semi-autos), but few have the skill, discipline, or dedication to really make a noticeable difference...

ROCK6
I shoot benchrest and have competed in rifle shooting for over 30 years. To me, accuracy is paramount. I have no use for a spray and pray gun. I know people and have built guns for some that compete in across the course fire and do very well. Here is where the shooters ability comes into play. I know how they reload and what they use to reload. To them, a decent load is good enough. Never could understand that. If they tweaked their load and used some better methods and components, the gun would be more accurate and logic says their scores would improve. But, they do quite well as is, so their ability speaks volumes.

I'm still in the extreme accuracy game and expect that from my guns.
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:02 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Rex View Post
.

The idea of buying a bolt rifle is interesting. I do believe that the libtards will find a way to take our semi-autos within the next 10 years or so. At least with a bolt rifle I could hand it down to a child for as long as they are allowed....
.
If you had a FA in 1980 you could pass it on to your kid.

Food for thought.
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:56 PM
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Israel Putnam Israel Putnam is offline
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Originally Posted by Stob View Post
I shoot benchrest and have competed in rifle shooting for over 30 years. To me, accuracy is paramount. I have no use for a spray and pray gun. I know people and have built guns for some that compete in across the course fire and do very well. Here is where the shooters ability comes into play. I know how they reload and what they use to reload. To them, a decent load is good enough. Never could understand that. If they tweaked their load and used some better methods and components, the gun would be more accurate and logic says their scores would improve. But, they do quite well as is, so their ability speaks volumes.

I'm still in the extreme accuracy game and expect that from my guns.
Benchrest shooting is a little off topic for a thread about an AR10 on a survival/prepping forum.

A quality factory or home built AR10 will shoot plenty good enough for most people looking for something that covers self defense as well as taking game.

And “spray and pray”?
Just because a gun is an auto loader doesn’t mean the shooter has to “spray and pray”...

I doubt there will be many benchrest matches happening in post apocalyptic America.
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:24 PM
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Bolt vs SA, my take. So everyone keep their knickers straight. The bolt may have better accuracy but like Rock said, most shooters will not gain an advantage. The SA shines in firepower but at the cost of weight. 20-25 rd loaded mags start adding on the pounds. In the end you probably end up with a weight difference of about 4-5 lbs. Scoped loaded bolt action somewhere around 7-8 lbs. Scoped mag loaded SA 11-12 lbs. So depends on what else you have to tote. Which one will the banners come for first? Get the semi!
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by thequintessentialman View Post
Was going to start the collection with 308 but wanted to build it. The different AR-308 brands dont play well with each other for mixing and matching parts

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If you stick with DI (direct impingement) I think you may find lots of interchangeability. Esp if you stick with a DPMS pattern. Piston operated, Ruger parts won't interchange with SIG, etc. Just Sayin'.

As far as the chicken/egg question, it's still America, whatever floats yer boat.
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stob View Post
I shoot benchrest and have competed in rifle shooting for over 30 years. To me, accuracy is paramount. I have no use for a spray and pray gun. I know people and have built guns for some that compete in across the course fire and do very well. Here is where the shooters ability comes into play. I know how they reload and what they use to reload. To them, a decent load is good enough. Never could understand that. If they tweaked their load and used some better methods and components, the gun would be more accurate and logic says their scores would improve. But, they do quite well as is, so their ability speaks volumes.

I'm still in the extreme accuracy game and expect that from my guns.
Not disagreeing with you in any way. But a lot of competition matches have been won with accurized M1A's. In my case, my eyes only seem to be good to about 1 1/2 moa. So chasing the last .0001" of case runout is a waste of time and effort.

Many of us are concerned with self defense. Zero 4" high at 100 yds, and aim for the belt buckle.
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stob View Post
I shoot benchrest and have competed in rifle shooting for over 30 years. To me, accuracy is paramount. I have no use for a spray and pray gun. I know people and have built guns for some that compete in across the course fire and do very well. Here is where the shooters ability comes into play. I know how they reload and what they use to reload. To them, a decent load is good enough. Never could understand that. If they tweaked their load and used some better methods and components, the gun would be more accurate and logic says their scores would improve. But, they do quite well as is, so their ability speaks volumes.

I'm still in the extreme accuracy game and expect that from my guns.
I do not get it. Who cares if you play games with your firearms ?????
You have a very high opinion of yourself.
I just added a couple "spray and pray" guns that fit right into survival and preparation.
They really should be called "spray and pay" as the are mostly 2" to 4" MOA depending on how cheap the ammunition is.
So the two Arsenal SAM 7R AK47s you think are worthless, are beautiful things in my opinion. They are not going to be used to play games.
Agree, stick with AR 308 and not AR10
I have a few uppers and lowers and they all can mix and match with two pins.
All AR 308 pattern
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Rex View Post
Also like the suggestion of buying the reloading supplies. Probably already have powder, but still need more.

The idea of buying a bolt rifle is interesting. I do believe that the libtards will find a way to take our semi-autos within the next 10 years or so. At least with a bolt rifle I could hand it down to a child for as long as they are allowed....

Many things to hink about. 'Course I have been thinking on this for too many years already. I need to get my butt into the buying mode while I still can.
The .308 is extremely easy to reload, and the choice of components is boundless. If you come across deals on IMR4064, it is your friend for a powder choice. You can get once-fired military brass extremely cheap, though you have to swage the primer pockets. RCBS Rock Chucker kit can be had for under $300, and they currently have a rebate available. All you need to add is powder, primers, bullets, and dies, and you are in business. You can add a vibratory tumbler if you want your brass to look nicer. ($40)

As far as the Communist 'Rats taking our guns. They have to have people that are willing to give them up!!

'Years' to 'Think' about buying a gun. What is wrong with you???
Is it a gun you do not have?? Do you have the money?? Decision made!!
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