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Old 08-09-2019, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Henrykjr View Post
I've recently given some thought as to what pistol/rifle combination I would actually carry if I physically had to leave my homestead.

I have a number of different calibers and weight vs carry capacity is a concern.

I know someone may have at some point asked the same question.

But if you could carry only one caliber what would that be?

My thoughts are .22lr or 9mm.

It's pretty easy to carry 500 rounds of .22 that would not be a huge weight add to a backpack but at at the same time the 9mm has more power.

So simply by bullet weight 500 rounds of 36 Grain about 3 pounds

Or 144 126 grain rounds (same weight) which simply does not seem to be enough for an emergency.

Thoughts?

HK

A few suggestions for you to ponder. ......

1. Figure out how many rounds you would like to carry. Somewhere between 200 and 500 rounds according to your comment above. BTW. ...... What kind of emergency are you looking at where 144 rds ain't enough in well trained/ experienced hands?

2. Know the exact weights pertaining to loaded ammunition.

:Example:
22LR Remington 36gr = .75 lbs per 100 rounds.

9MM Spear gold dot 124gr = 2.81 lbs per 100 rds

5.56MM Hornady TAP 75gr = 2.85 lbs per 100 rds.

7.62x39mm Federal Fusion 123gr = 3.75 lbs per 100 rds.

357 Mag Winchester 158gr JHP = 3.57 lbs per 100 rds

45ACP AE 230gr fmj = 4.61 lbs per 100 rds

12GA Winchester 2.75 inch 00 buckshot = 10.28 lbs per 100 rds.



3. Know what your requirements are concerning what terminal effects you need out to your given maximum effective range.
One example of why 5.56mm has never replaced 7.62x51mm in the Military and never will.
One thing to keep in mind......Do you wish to rely on a " minimum " during this emergency or something leaning more towards " optimum" ?

4. Training has been mentioned already, but should not be left out here. Either should physical training ( PT) , as the best gun fighter in the world becomes useless if he can't physically make that hump to the fight in the first place. The number 1 most important preparation for anyone. IE. ......Make certain that you can carry your emergency wpns, ammo, and other equipment thru the terrain you might be forced to travel .....and under any kin d of weather( seasonal as well) you are likely to encounter.

5. No problems here with " 1 caliber"..... as the one chosen here covers 100% of all requirements. With that said, I don't try and cram the 1 caliber for a rifle and a pistol combined simply because it makes no practical sense to do so in the first place.
In short...... pick a rifle cartridge for your rifle . If the plan is to carry a pistol/ sidearm with the rifle, pick a caliber well suited for the sidearm's primary role .Example in photo below. Primary role = Very quiet close distance use in a compact package with very light weight ammo.

Good luck.


11B
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Old 08-10-2019, 06:32 AM
Ozone Crusade Ozone Crusade is offline
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The other reason why I think 9mm might be the way to go (in addition to some of the other good reasons posted by others in this thread) is 9mm performs well out of carbines (as opposed to .45 ACP which usually performs worse) and it is a good round for suppressors.

I donít own a suppressor but if I did, it would be for one of my 9mm Carbines. (If TEOTWAWKI occurred during our lifetimes, I would think a suppressed carbine would be a good thing to have.)
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:41 AM
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I wouldn't stick with 1 cartridge, but if I absolutely had to it would be either 9mm luger or 10mm auto with a preference towards 10mm auto.

With rifles you'll get a roughly 200fps increase in velocity between 180 and 200gr loads in 10mm from the added 12" (16" total) of barrel and 300fps with 155gr bullets which puts em in the area of 850-1100ft/lbs of energy depending on the bullet weight and load over the average 4" barrel length of most 10mm handguns.
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Old 08-11-2019, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoo View Post
9mm seems the obvious choice to me, particularly the Ruger 9mm carbine with matching pistol/Glock which uses the same magazine.
Just my .02
Although, having thought about it, a close second choice (for me) would be a .357 wheel gun and a .357 Lever action....
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Old 08-11-2019, 04:11 PM
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Im going with 9mm. .22 is often deadly but what good is that if it takes so long for an intruder to die that he takes you with him? 2- 9mm rounds will stop a man faster than several .22's
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Old 08-11-2019, 04:20 PM
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I think 38/357 would be what Id go with if I had to pick one caliber. that or either 44mag

in a wheel/lever gun combo
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodoo View Post
Although, having thought about it, a close second choice (for me) would be a .357 wheel gun and a .357 Lever action....
The numbers aren't too bad...

1235MV/535ME from the short gun.
1850MV/1201ME from the long gun.

...and in this case, the long gun is almost as handy as the short gun is!
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fragout View Post
A few suggestions for you to ponder. ......

1. Figure out how many rounds you would like to carry. Somewhere between 200 and 500 rounds according to your comment above. BTW. ...... What kind of emergency are you looking at where 144 rds ain't enough in well trained/ experienced hands?

2. Know the exact weights pertaining to loaded ammunition.

:Example:
22LR Remington 36gr = .75 lbs per 100 rounds.

9MM Spear gold dot 124gr = 2.81 lbs per 100 rds

5.56MM Hornady TAP 75gr = 2.85 lbs per 100 rds.

7.62x39mm Federal Fusion 123gr = 3.75 lbs per 100 rds.

357 Mag Winchester 158gr JHP = 3.57 lbs per 100 rds

45ACP AE 230gr fmj = 4.61 lbs per 100 rds

12GA Winchester 2.75 inch 00 buckshot = 10.28 lbs per 100 rds.



3. Know what your requirements are concerning what terminal effects you need out to your given maximum effective range.
One example of why 5.56mm has never replaced 7.62x51mm in the Military and never will.
One thing to keep in mind......Do you wish to rely on a " minimum " during this emergency or something leaning more towards " optimum" ?

4. Training has been mentioned already, but should not be left out here. Either should physical training ( PT) , as the best gun fighter in the world becomes useless if he can't physically make that hump to the fight in the first place. The number 1 most important preparation for anyone. IE. ......Make certain that you can carry your emergency wpns, ammo, and other equipment thru the terrain you might be forced to travel .....and under any kin d of weather( seasonal as well) you are likely to encounter.

5. No problems here with " 1 caliber"..... as the one chosen here covers 100% of all requirements. With that said, I don't try and cram the 1 caliber for a rifle and a pistol combined simply because it makes no practical sense to do so in the first place.
In short...... pick a rifle cartridge for your rifle . If the plan is to carry a pistol/ sidearm with the rifle, pick a caliber well suited for the sidearm's primary role .Example in photo below. Primary role = Very quiet close distance use in a compact package with very light weight ammo.

Good luck.


11B
Built in redundancy isn't a bad thing concerning battle or preps. A very good reason I can think of having one caliber is never being completely out of the fight. During maintenance of the "big gun" of a 2 gun battery, it would be a bugger needing the bigger gun and being stuck with the .22. I did a little reading on the Vietnam war, and there was an observation made that most (!) of the soldiers killed during a particular investigation, were killed due to the fact that they were caught weaponless while maintaining their rifles.

Or, one of the guns just flat out breaks down. Maybe parts aren't available, or the gun is a little too complicated to fix easily, or too badly damaged. In that case, half your ammo preps are now junk for all the good it'll do you. But if you had a good load for a rifle or a pistol, you can still access all the ammunition.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
9MM Spear gold dot 124gr = 2.81 lbs per 100 rds

5.56MM Hornady TAP 75gr = 2.85 lbs per 100 rds.
This is why I can't figure out why the hell anyone would choose 9mm for their single caliber. It boggles the mind.
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
This is why I can't figure out why the hell anyone would choose 9mm for their single caliber. It boggles the mind.
Because there aren't any 'viable' handgun-rifle combo packages (per the conditions of the original post) available in 5.56mm.

Yeah, there are guns marketed as "AR 15 Pistols"...but they are not true handguns.

While researching the issue, I ran across this:

Locally Made 5.56 Revolver From Indonesia at TFB (The Firearms Blog).

Not saying these are a 'good thing' to have, just interesting.
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Old 08-12-2019, 11:32 AM
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Too many big unanswered questions for the OP: exactly what do you mean by "bugging out"?

Do you mean heading to your 'survival camp' in a SHTF with enough food and water for the trip?

If so, do you have other guns stashed there/nearby your destination and thus your "bugging out" guns only need to get you there?

Or are you talking about leaving with no firm destination in mind and only being assured of having what you can carry?

Are you talking about TEOTWAWKI and so the gun(s) you'll have may be all you'll have 'forever'?

Regardless of any of the above, what threats are likely? Getting out of an inner city to the survival site 5 days away on foot requires a different pack/load (and not just your guns) than leaving the suburbs headed to the 'Hideout in the Hills' in a vehicle.

In either case, is it just you or are family/friends making the trip with you? If so, are they armed? Commonality of calibers if not guns may be a consideration...or, conversely, a larger group may be able to diversify calibers.

Will there be friends/family at the destination? If so, see above.

And so forth and so on.

Everyone will still have a wide range of ideas about best caliber...but assessing the 'triggers' that prompted the bug out, the pre bug-out setting, the time frames involved, threat assessments, etc. all have to factor in.
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Old 08-12-2019, 05:27 PM
NAC/NSW/CAC NAC/NSW/CAC is offline
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Now if "Bugging Out" means you just move to another location that leaves you in the scrum? Well that is a pre planned failure in MHO. Evade & Escape is an extraction completely from the life threatening scenario. To expect to survive indefinitely without support on any "Battlefield" is a "Fool's Errand", not to mention a planning failure. JMHO.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAC/NSW/CAC View Post
12 gauge has a lot of versatility...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
The shells are too enormous for an on foot bugout.
And yet, 12ga shotguns were a favored weapon for jungle fighting in several wars by guys operating on foot on extended missions.

Maybe they were just tougher than the average survivalist-?

I guess it depends on individual preference and expectations of the threats, terrain and overall scenario of whatever bug out situation.
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:43 AM
Ozone Crusade Ozone Crusade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.5x55 Swiss View Post
I wouldn't stick with 1 cartridge, but if I absolutely had to it would be either 9mm luger or 10mm auto with a preference towards 10mm auto.

With rifles you'll get a roughly 200fps increase in velocity between 180 and 200gr loads in 10mm from the added 12" (16" total) of barrel and 300fps with 155gr bullets which puts em in the area of 850-1100ft/lbs of energy depending on the bullet weight and load over the average 4" barrel length of most 10mm handguns.
I love 10mm Auto (and I own five 10mm pistols) but 10mm is harder to find than 9mm and a lot more expensive when you do find it. 10mm Auto carbines are uncommon (and I donít own one). Iíd love to have an MP5 in 10mm but evidently the FBI has all of them.
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Old 08-13-2019, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Yeah, there are guns marketed as "AR 15 Pistols"...but they are not true handguns.
If two ammunition types have the same weight per round but one of them is more than THREE TIMES more powerful, I'm going with that one. I'm not going to cripple my main weapon just so I could have a traditional handgun along for the ride.

Conversely, if I am dead set on having a handgun with me then that is what I am going to have, I'm not going to lug a PCC in the same caliber that weighs almost as much as a real rifle along just for good measure. I'd rather carry 6-7 lbs of something more useful.

I think the idea of a PCC and handgun combo being somehow a good thing is deeply flawed to the point of lunacy. Sure, your hedging your bets but your doing it at cost of a very large step down in what that rifle could have been capable of with a real rifle round in it....for what?

The guy with a 556 AR and Glock 9mm and ten pounds of ammo is going to be much much better armed than the guy with a CX4 and PX4 in 9mm also with ten pounds of ammo. Virtually the same weight, bulk and number of rounds available but one of them is topping out at about 100 yards and 350 ft/lbs of energy while the other is going out to 600 and has 1300 ft/lbs to work with.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
The US military has already optimized the carry weight vs Power equation for a defensive rifle and came up with the AR-15. At least for the time that troops are in between resupply points.
When I was in the Army I wasn't issued a pistol.
I think there's a reason for that
Rather than carry 3-5 pounds of pistol w/ ammo, you should maybe carry 3-5 pounds more rifle ammo.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAC/NSW/CAC View Post
12 gauge has a lot of versatility. A 590 or any other combat styled shotgun may not be the best for grey man passage. But a slugged barreled standard field pump shotgun on the floorboard of the canoe, that's something to ponder upon. JMHO.
Hope you got a mule to carry the ammo.
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkbait View Post
When I was in the Army I wasn't issued a pistol.
Rather than carry 3-5 pounds of pistol w/ ammo, you should maybe carry 3-5 pounds more rifle ammo.
Indeed. The only pistol I am going to carry if I'm bugging out on foot weighs a pound, will only have a dozen rounds of ammo for it, and is basically just a the gun equivalent of a neck knife.
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Martial Lawyer View Post
I would think that 30mm is most versatile for both small game hunting and self defense.
I think you must have meant .30 caliber. A 30 mm bullet would be 1.1811024" diameter, or almost 1 .2 inches. That might have recoil issues for me.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:30 AM
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I 'love' how these discussions always seem to get hijacked by the

"I

Need

More

Cowbell (power)!!!"

crowd.

LOL

All you 5.56mm afficionados are wussies! REAL men know that 7.62mm/.30 cal BATTLE RIFLES win the day in the perpetual, ongoing, sustained fire-fights, running gun battles, and fire & maneuver between infantry company-sized units of belligerents and hordes of snake eaters that will be the norm in the Zombie Apocalypse. Those pitched battles at 500yds or more will be a daily if not hourly occurance.

With that in mind, gimme gimme gimme some .30-06, 8mm Mauser, .303 Enfield, 7.62x51mm NATO, .308 Win, .300 Win Mag, .338 Win Mag, .338 Lapua, etc....

Anything less is a recipe for DOOM!

LOL
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