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Old 09-14-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Klaymore View Post
I sometimes wonder whether Donald Trump is a Communist agent-provocateur.

Think about it. He's like a caricature of an evil capitalist, in that he's at the same time venal, self-obsessed and blisteringly incompetent (the string of bankruptcies for his business, for example). He's most famous lately for randomly firing employees on television and being the impresario behind ogle-fests like the Miss USA pageant. He makes the kind of comments about workers, minorities and women that Communists claim are in the hearts of capitalists. And his policies almost seem designed to follow the old Communist goals of accentuating and exacerbating class warfare before the inevitable Revolution.

Then you add his actual connections to Communists. Two of Trump's three wives grew up as teenagers in Communist countries, being indoctrinated in Communist ideology and going to meetings of whatever the Czechoslovak and Yugoslav equivalent of the USSR's Young Pioneers was. He's a known admirer of Communist government. His strongest supporter on the international stage is Vladimir Putin, who spent 16 years in the KGB, and who he calls upon to interfere in the American election. And Trump's most prominent foreign policies advance long-time Communist goals - the destruction of capitalist trade blocs like NAFTA and the EU, and withdrawing the arm of American protection from Europe, Japan and South Korea. It's hard to see how any American could advance Communist goals on the international stage more.

Plus there's the fact that the party he's running for is the one that's typically been *less* tough on Communists, contrary to popular imagination (detente, SALT I, START, the INF treaty and looking the other way at Tienanmen Square for the Republicans as opposed to Korea, the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, and getting involved in Afghanistan the first go-round for the Democrats).

It could make you wonder. It really could.
I don't know if I would call him a Communist but he does seem to lean towards "nannyism" and big government. He spends like the Democrats. He makes executive orders that hinder our freedom and liberty "for our own good." So I don't think he's a pro-Constitution and pro-American as he pretends to be. He may have fired a War Hawk RINO recently but he's still surrounded by them.
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Old 09-15-2019, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
Communism is like crying witch.

Of course we can point the finger at whoever we want.

If people follow the herd and not the logic. This is exactly what will happen.

And if you disagree you are a communist.
No, the call to burn a witch is from ignorance of the unknown.

But communism and socialism have been proven to fail every time and kill many millions.

Burn the commie has been validated as a rational response to a proven threat.

If not for the existence if the 1A, I would be fully on board with labeling card carrying commies guilty of a capital crime and and socialists to be treated as a lesser form of violent felon.

To believe in collectivism beyond the family/tribe/clan is a form of armed assault on society. Belief is intent; voting booth is motive, means, and opportunity; advocacy is the criminally violent act. Joseph McCarthy was right and should be sainted.

My wallet is not your wallet.
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Old 09-15-2019, 11:19 AM
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There needs to be a sense of treating everyone equally in order to sell the idea of communism to the people.

That's the ultimate goal, nobody owns anything and everyone has access to whatever their needs are.

THAT idea requires a sense of altruism to accept.

Its an idea that should fall on the trash heap of history.
To that end, the 'Rats are seeking a $15/hr minimum wage. What they don't tell you is that they seek for that to be a maximum wage, also. In the interest of true equality. The current CEO's making $Millions/yr will be expected to continue in the interest of the 'common good' for the same $15/hr. "To each, according to their needs, from each, according to their ability".

Can one say "who is John Galt" ???

True altruism is a myth. Even Mother Teresa got a payback to her psyche for her acts.
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Old 09-15-2019, 11:51 AM
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I learned a new word today the OP is guilty of suing: Speculusions.

They speculate then make conclusions based on their thoughts.

I had an old liberal once say, "Don't believe everything you think." The OP should remember that.
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Old 09-15-2019, 03:18 PM
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I learned a new word today the OP is guilty of suing: Speculusions.

They speculate then make conclusions based on their thoughts.

I had an old liberal once say, "Don't believe everything you think." The OP should remember that.
If only Trump would heed this advice.
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Old 09-15-2019, 09:13 PM
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If only Trump would quit keeping me guessing.
Fixed that for you, libtard.

Oh look! There goes the red laser dot. Go catch it!
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
Okay, if altruism wasn't involved, explain these guys.

Fidel Castro was born into a wealthy family, went to law school and started a law firm dedicated to helping the poor. What was his motivation? He had money and power and would have done well following that path.

Che Guevara was born in a middle class Argentinian family and became a physician.. He became a communist after traveling through Latin America as a medical student where he was overwhelmed with the poverty. He was born into privilege and money, studied at a university and became a doctor. So he was someone who was middle/upper class in Latin America. What was his motivation to abandon all that?

Mao Zedong was born into a wealthy farmer class. As a child and teenager he witnessed famine and misery and was motivated to change China. But he was not suffering. He went to university and was a member of a relatively wealthy class. What was his motivation to leave that behind?

If these guys were strictly motivated by personal greed ,it would have been MUCH easier for them to exploit their education, profession, position in society and personal wealth to acquire more.

Let's be clear here. What I'm saying doesn't negate your point about greed. But its not the sole motivation.

I'm NOT defending these guys nor communism. What I am suggesting is that, for good or bad, altruism HAS played a part in motivating people to become communists. To not understand this is to not understand your enemy.
People find a political system, a religion, an ideology they think will bring about paradise on earth, they decide it is all right - indeed, necessary - that they do whatever it takes to put it in place because the end justifies the means. Lies, torture, murder, destruction, all good. And since the people opposing them are obviously evil because they DON'T want to bring about paradise on earth, well, they deserve what they get.

Thousands of years of 'civilization' and we're still like this.
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Old 09-16-2019, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Klaymore View Post
I sometimes wonder whether Donald Trump is a Communist agent-provocateur.

Think about it. He's like a caricature of an evil capitalist, in that he's at the same time venal, self-obsessed and blisteringly incompetent (the string of bankruptcies for his business, for example). He's most famous lately for randomly firing employees on television and being the impresario behind ogle-fests like the Miss USA pageant. He makes the kind of comments about workers, minorities and women that Communists claim are in the hearts of capitalists. And his policies almost seem designed to follow the old Communist goals of accentuating and exacerbating class warfare before the inevitable Revolution.

Then you add his actual connections to Communists. Two of Trump's three wives grew up as teenagers in Communist countries, being indoctrinated in Communist ideology and going to meetings of whatever the Czechoslovak and Yugoslav equivalent of the USSR's Young Pioneers was. He's a known admirer of Communist government. His strongest supporter on the international stage is Vladimir Putin, who spent 16 years in the KGB, and who he calls upon to interfere in the American election. And Trump's most prominent foreign policies advance long-time Communist goals - the destruction of capitalist trade blocs like NAFTA and the EU, and withdrawing the arm of American protection from Europe, Japan and South Korea. It's hard to see how any American could advance Communist goals on the international stage more.

Plus there's the fact that the party he's running for is the one that's typically been *less* tough on Communists, contrary to popular imagination (detente, SALT I, START, the INF treaty and looking the other way at Tienanmen Square for the Republicans as opposed to Korea, the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, and getting involved in Afghanistan the first go-round for the Democrats).

It could make you wonder. It really could.
Out of 800 businesses he has started, a small few went bankrupt, and that only because he refuses to use a good business to bail out a bad one. His success rate is truly remarkable.
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:18 AM
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Like him, or hate him, President Trump is currently our last bastion against Communism/Socialism. Referring to him as a 'Communist' is patently absurd!!!
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Old 09-16-2019, 02:21 PM
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He is definitely not a closet Communist though given his spirited defense of Saudi Arabia I could go along with the notion that he is a closet adherent of Wahhabism.
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Old 09-16-2019, 02:37 PM
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True communism has never happened and never will. There will always be a greedy despot in charge.
Small tribes manage it. But big first workers will not make it successful.

The military manages pretty well but it is for a specific reason.
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Old 09-16-2019, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
Communism is like crying witch.

Of course we can point the finger at whoever we want.

If people follow the herd and not the logic. This is exactly what will happen.

And if you disagree you are a communist.
No, the call to burn a witch is from ignorance of the unknown.

But communism and socialism have been proven to fail every time and kill many millions.

Burn the commie has been validated as a rational response to a proven threat.

If not for the existence if the 1A, I would be fully on board with labeling card carrying commies guilty of a capital crime and and socialists to be treated as a lesser form of violent felon.

To believe in collectivism beyond the family/tribe/clan is a form of armed assault on society. Belief is intent; voting booth is motive, means, and opportunity; advocacy is the criminally violent act. Joseph McCarthy was right and should be sainted.

My wallet is not your wallet.
I can point the finger at pretty much any part of society I don't like and cry communist.

Especially when it comes to redistribution of funds. Because modern democracys rely on redistribution of funds to work.

Public space is technically communist.

And if i use a road, call the police, use money, use a library get my rubbish picked up. Your wallet is my wallet.
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Old 09-16-2019, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
I can point the finger at pretty much any part of society I don't like and cry communist.

Especially when it comes to redistribution of funds. Because modern democracys rely on redistribution of funds to work.

Public space is technically communist.

And if i use a road, call the police, use money, use a library get my rubbish picked up. Your wallet is my wallet.
Bull****. You are using the community public necessities as an excuse to creep into the elimination of private property.

Caesar must build what families and private enterprise shows the lack of interest, ability, or efficacy in.

If families, private social groups, or private enterprise show they can get it done then Caesar must back off.

The fact that you said police shows you are being purposefully blind. Police don't protect you. Private security and individuals fill the role of actual protection in a community. Police exist to enforce jurisprudence, but I protect my property and security guards protect businesses.

Many more mundane community services are handled by private industry using a monopoly contract. Utilities (water supply, power, natural gas, internet, garbage collection) are routinely handled by private community contract for the simple reason that allowing a free for all would cause excessive infrastructure and loss of quantities of scale.

My city library was built by Andrew Carnegie and under his mandate that it get filled with books by private citizens or he would take the structure back and flatten it.

Police? Trash? Library? In all three cases you completely ignored charity, individuals, and business provide the lion's share of the effort. The government is merely the arbitrator and facilitator for the last 10% of the job. Just because the government gets its hand in to help control something does not mean they are actually getting most of the actual work done.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
Yeah, altruism was the ultimate goal of Castro and Mao but first they had to clear away the "impediments" to utopia.

Stalin was a state controlled capitalist who was interested in power more than anything else.
Initially, Castro was a NATIONALIST who turned communist after falling under the influence of his right hand man, Che Guevera, who was a stone cold commie. Altruism was never in Fidel's vocabulary! LOL We saw how successful his system was after the dissolution of the Soviet Union and Cuba lost all Soviet financial support.

The 40 million victims who starved to death during Mao's "Great Leap Forward" and the millions of victims of his "Cultural Revolution" would most likely not see him as an altruist if they had lived to give their opinion.

Stalin's cult of personality was not any different from the one Mao developed to elevate himself to godlike status. Both were scumbags who were more interested in power than their people. So, when you are out there waving your "Little Red Book" remember that you're not fooling anyone.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:38 AM
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Initially, Castro was a NATIONALIST who turned communist after falling under the influence of his right hand man, Che Guevera, who was a stone cold commie. Altruism was never in Fidel's vocabulary! LOL We saw how successful his system was after the dissolution of the Soviet Union and Cuba lost all Soviet financial support.
Actually, Castro wasn't a nationalist as much as a leftist/communist all throughout his history. You can do your own research to fill in the blanks. Debating Castro any further would only derail the thread, but if that's important, be my guest. I'm done.

And whether he was successful or not was never the point. I've already said that communism belongs in the dumpster of history, a point you conveniently ignore.

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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
The 40 million victims who starved to death during Mao's "Great Leap Forward" and the millions of victims of his "Cultural Revolution" would most likely not see him as an altruist if they had lived to give their opinion.
As I said earlier, this was a means towards his higher goal of transforming society for his utopia. Because I claim this was his motivation doesn't mean I support it or condone it.

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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
Stalin's cult of personality was not any different from the one Mao developed to elevate himself to godlike status. Both were scumbags who were more interested in power than their people. So, when you are out there waving your "Little Red Book" remember that you're not fooling anyone.
Agreed about Stalin, but not so much about Mao. Again, as I said before, I don't agree with, support or follow of these guys. I think they are the worst of the worst.

So you can take YOUR ad hominem and "Little Red Book" and shove 'em where the sun doesn't shine.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:50 PM
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As I said earlier, this was a means towards his higher goal of transforming society for his utopia. Because I claim this was his motivation doesn't mean I support it or condone it.:
Causing 40+ million deaths is not the work of an altruist no matter how you cut it.



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Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
o you can take YOUR ad hominem and "Little Red Book" and shove 'em where the sun doesn't shine.
You sound like Maoist the way you defend him. Hey, if it quacks like a duck it must be a duck!
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
I can point the finger at pretty much any part of society I don't like and cry communist.

Especially when it comes to redistribution of funds. Because modern democracys rely on redistribution of funds to work.

Public space is technically communist.

And if i use a road, call the police, use money, use a library get my rubbish picked up. Your wallet is my wallet.
Bull****. You are using the community public necessities as an excuse to creep into the elimination of private property.

Caesar must build what families and private enterprise shows the lack of interest, ability, or efficacy in.

If families, private social groups, or private enterprise show they can get it done then Caesar must back off.

The fact that you said police shows you are being purposefully blind. Police don't protect you. Private security and individuals fill the role of actual protection in a community. Police exist to enforce jurisprudence, but I protect my property and security guards protect businesses.

Many more mundane community services are handled by private industry using a monopoly contract. Utilities (water supply, power, natural gas, internet, garbage collection) are routinely handled by private community contract for the simple reason that allowing a free for all would cause excessive infrastructure and loss of quantities of scale.

My city library was built by Andrew Carnegie and under his mandate that it get filled with books by private citizens or he would take the structure back and flatten it.

Police? Trash? Library? In all three cases you completely ignored charity, individuals, and business provide the lion's share of the effort. The government is merely the arbitrator and facilitator for the last 10% of the job. Just because the government gets its hand in to help control something does not mean they are actually getting most of the actual work done.
So your suggestion is that basically any sort of public infrastructure or services done by the government and of course paid for by our wallets

Are really done by charitable groups and private enterprise.

And of course ignoring where private enterprise are on government contracts. Because that is still our wallets.

And with no facts other than one library that was donated.

Ok. Let's look at a big wall someone wants to build with other people's money.

Why hasn't that been left to charitable groups and private enterprise?

And a free society isn't one where I should have to beg for the table scraps of a rich person.
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:19 PM
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And a free society isn't one where I should have to beg for the table scraps of a rich person.
No it's not. A free society is one where you can WORK for your own steak & potato's. Then YOU get to decide who gets your table scraps, without having them taken from you & redistributed by the Nanny State.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
So your suggestion is that basically any sort of public infrastructure or services done by the government and of course paid for by our wallets

Are really done by charitable groups and private enterprise.

And of course ignoring where private enterprise are on government contracts. Because that is still our wallets.

And with no facts other than one library that was donated.

Ok. Let's look at a big wall someone wants to build with other people's money.

Why hasn't that been left to charitable groups and private enterprise?

And a free society isn't one where I should have to beg for the table scraps of a rich person.
And now it comes out with your last line. Class envy. Rich should pay more because they have more, right?

Everything else was smoke on a slippy slope in hopes of trying to normalize class envy.

In all cases when a public need exists: once all private options have been exhausted or are unrealistic, the final choice must be taxation by the government, with no regard to an entity's status or wealth.

In all cases where someone perceives a society need and their preferred choice is taxation or appropriation, those people must be identified, singled out, and punished until the faulty thinking no longer exists - even if the only means to get the point across means death.

Anyone who sees taxation and appropriation as good and just needs a mental realignment, by force if necessary.

The government choice should always remain the last grudging choice.

Caesar is the necessary evil to hold groups of people together that are larger than a tribe. Caesar must always be treated as a pariah and remain the last to be fed. Once you assign virtue and preference to Caesar you have let slip your commitment to your fellow members of your society and should be punished.

Burn the commie.
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