Sleeping bag or bivvy recommendations. - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-08-2019, 01:28 PM
Truckersurvivor's Avatar
Truckersurvivor Truckersurvivor is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 12 Posts
Default Sleeping bag or bivvy recommendations.



Advertise Here

Hoping some you could recommend a cost effective sleeping bag or sleeping system. That's good for 20f to 32f. I don't mind spending some money but I'm really don't want to shell out hundreds of dollars.
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-08-2019, 01:44 PM
bunkerbuster's Avatar
bunkerbuster bunkerbuster is online now
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Out west
Posts: 8,837
Thanks: 4,507
Thanked 22,499 Times in 7,006 Posts
Default

For the money a MSS sleep system is about as good as it gets.
Sturdy, reliable, all over eBay variable prices.

__________________
Its dangerous to be right, when the government is wrong. The price of freedom can be seen at your local VA hospital.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to bunkerbuster For This Useful Post:
Old 09-08-2019, 05:02 PM
goat daddy goat daddy is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: California
Posts: 3,217
Thanks: 3,250
Thanked 4,538 Times in 1,955 Posts
Default

I pick up sleeping bags and down comforters in thrift stores. A few weeks ago I picked up a nice grey goose down bag for 12.98. In my younger days days of deer hunting I just used a 4# Dacron bag on a foam pad with a heavy quilt that my wife made. "the hunting" quilt was king size and well done. I could double it in really cold weather, could cover several of us and throw it off if too hot. Last winter she replace the fill and the lining. It is good for another 35 years. My thought is a good bag and a better comforter/quilt.
Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-09-2019, 06:05 AM
ROCK6's Avatar
ROCK6 ROCK6 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Georgia/Virginia
Posts: 5,665
Thanks: 6,394
Thanked 12,767 Times in 4,163 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkerbuster View Post
For the money a MSS sleep system is about as good as it gets.
Sturdy, reliable, all over eBay variable prices.
Agreed on price and value, but the MSS sucks for backpacking as it's heavy and bulky. What's your intended purpose? Sleeping systems fall into the category of "pick two": weight, cost, performance.

Where you use it matters as well. As much as I love and think the MSS bivvy bag is an excellent piece of kit, it sucks in very humid environments and will create a ton of condensation. Cold and dry is where it does best, but it will do well in wind and wet conditions as long as the humidity isn't ridiculous.

If you're not focused on distance backpacking, you'll find a lot of good performing value at bargain prices; the MSS is one of them. If you're serious about backpacking, you're not going to find anything better than down, but the advantages of performance along with the lowest weight/compression comes at a much higher price tag. I only recommend down for those who are serious about actually using their sleeping bags often and doing longer-distance backpacking.

Wiggy's makes some excellent bags as well with a similar system as the MSS (FTRSS). They are also a little heavier and bulkier, but solid performers for the cost.

A popular sleeping system now are down quilts designed to pair with a sleeping pad and a bivvy covering both.

ROCK6
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ROCK6 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-09-2019, 07:58 AM
evilwhitey's Avatar
evilwhitey evilwhitey is online now
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 1,184
Thanked 1,452 Times in 673 Posts
Default

I'll echo the recommendations for the MSS assuming you're not planning on backpacking with it. If you're just car camping or using it at a cabin, etc, go for it with the MSS, they're sturdy, cheap and work. I use my MSS every time I car camp.
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-10-2019, 06:07 PM
Truckersurvivor's Avatar
Truckersurvivor Truckersurvivor is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkerbuster View Post
For the money a MSS sleep system is about as good as it gets.
Sturdy, reliable, all over eBay variable prices.
Agreed on price and value, but the MSS sucks for backpacking as it's heavy and bulky. What's your intended purpose? Sleeping systems fall into the category of "pick two": weight, cost, performance.

Where you use it matters as well. As much as I love and think the MSS bivvy bag is an excellent piece of kit, it sucks in very humid environments and will create a ton of condensation. Cold and dry is where it does best, but it will do well in wind and wet conditions as long as the humidity isn't ridiculous.

If you're not focused on distance backpacking, you'll find a lot of good performing value at bargain prices; the MSS is one of them. If you're serious about backpacking, you're not going to find anything better than down, but the advantages of performance along with the lowest weight/compression comes at a much higher price tag. I only recommend down for those who are serious about actually using their sleeping bags often and doing longer-distance backpacking.

Wiggy's makes some excellent bags as well with a similar system as the MSS (FTRSS). They are also a little heavier and bulkier, but solid performers for the cost.

A popular sleeping system now are down quilts designed to pair with a sleeping pad and a bivvy covering both.

ROCK6
I'd I had to pick between cost, weight, and performance. I'd choose cost and weight. As seeing I plan of using it for hiking. So I'm trying not to add to much weight to my pack. If need be I can always use a mylar bivvy for extra warmth. Currently now, I'm using just a simple wool blanket. I don't mind the using the blanket. I'd just prefer a sleeping bag. If I could find one that's not too bulky and heavy.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Truckersurvivor For This Useful Post:
Old 09-10-2019, 07:10 PM
Sharkbait Sharkbait is online now
Not a Commie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,348
Thanks: 4,251
Thanked 2,080 Times in 880 Posts
Default

Good, light, cheap.

Pick 2
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sharkbait For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 07:26 AM
ROCK6's Avatar
ROCK6 ROCK6 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Georgia/Virginia
Posts: 5,665
Thanks: 6,394
Thanked 12,767 Times in 4,163 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckersurvivor View Post
I'd I had to pick between cost, weight, and performance. I'd choose cost and weight. As seeing I plan of using it for hiking. So I'm trying not to add to much weight to my pack. If need be I can always use a mylar bivvy for extra warmth. Currently now, I'm using just a simple wool blanket. I don't mind the using the blanket. I'd just prefer a sleeping bag. If I could find one that's not too bulky and heavy.
Backpacking and capable of temps down to 20-degrees. The only way to save a couple pounds is to go with down; but it's expensive unless you find a good deal second hand.

If you don't mind bumping the weight up to about 3-4 pounds and can handle a little more bulk due to the majority having synthetic insulation, you can find dozens of deals for $150 or less. Just throwing out Wiggys 20-degree bag for $160: 20-degree bag

Now, let's talk "sleep system".

My initial assumption is that you want the bivvy bag to serve as your shelter instead of a tent? My only caution is that I would still consider a small tarp as it allows you to get in and out of your sleeping system without getting it wet. There are dozens of surplus bivvy bags on eBay that will do the job. They do offer excellent wind protection and decent water protection; having a small tarp just adds a little more protection and will help to keep you and your bag dry as you enter and exit. One nice aspect about bivvy bags is that they can add as much as 10-degrees to your sleep system's comfort rating.

I like wide-box styled bivvy bags (which most surplus ones are) as they allow you to stick your sleeping pad inside the bag which makes it easier to stay on it as you sleep.

Sleeping bags have a general "comfort rating". Much depends on the individual and their own metabolism, circulation, and how they perceive cold and comfort; it can be very subjective. The older I get, I find I need comfort-rating about 5-10 degrees warmer than listed.

Ground insulation. The common saying that it's better to have twice the insulation between you and the ground than on top of you is pretty accurate. Again, the same rules apply to a sleeping bag, which is why you need a sleeping pad and why many have moved to quilts vice your traditional sleeping bag. Any insulaiton underneath you from your bag will compress and lose it's insulation value; this is reason for having a sleeping pad. You can get some lightweight, compact, and high-performing sleeping pads; but they will cost you quite a bit. On the other end of the spectrum, closed-cell-foam (CCF) pads are pretty affective performance-wise, and the cheapest options; while not necessarily heavy, they are often quite bulky. Most prefer CCF pads because they're simply more robust than inflatable (higher-RF) pads that are more expensive. I've found new production inflatible pads are more than reliable enough as long as you take care of them. Regardless of your choice, ground insulation is extremely important to your sleep system. There are a lot of arm-chair survivalists that think they can just use natural insulation, but they lack the experience knowing how long it takes to collect, gather, transport, bind, stuff, and build a natural ground insulation bed (let alone doing it every night from scratch for several nights). For a static camp site, it's good practice, for backpacking or being mobile (especially in poor weather conditions), it's a recipe for disaster. Add a quality sleeping pad to your kit.

Thermoregulation and the effects of heat-transfer.



We all know the methods heat is transferred, but it's easy to forget how to avoid those affects in colder weather. I love a hammock as a summer shelter, but in the winter, convection from wind under the hammock can make it a freezer box without a good wind-break and under-quilt insulation. Even still, once temps drop below freezing for extended periods, I choose a ground shelter and sleeping system as they often end up being lighter and simpler.

Your insulation is what helps minimize loss of heat from radiation and some bag liners have a foil-type material to help radiate the lost heat back, but caution is needed as that material can affect "the material breathing" and avoid condensation. There are some "sweat-bag" sleep systems and methods, but it's an expert's system as anything wet will dramatically increase the effects of convection if you're not careful. Any wind will affect your sleep system, but most modern fabrics are pretty wind resistant. Besides, your bivvy is windproof and you can use a tarp or tent to keep the effects of convection from wind to a minimum.

Conduction is your biggest threat for a ground sleep system, and why a sleeping pad to serve as ground insulation is so important. Some will even pack both an insulated air pad and a CCF pad and double up. I have on occasion piled up four to five inches of pine needles and put my pad on top, but understanding that conduction is one of your significant threat-vectors for heat loss, is important when planning what will work for you and your planned activities.

As mentioned, anything wet will increase the affects and heat loss from conduction and convection significantly. Not only do you need protection from any external precipitation, you also need to be wary of condensation.

Evaporation is one that is often overlooked. I know many try and drink little before bed to avoid having to get up at 0300, but you have to find your own balance. Good circulation helps your body thermoregulate. Less water in your system will affect blood circulation and can have an effect on heat transfer, especially to your extremities. Heat is lost with evaporation, and that loss can also affect your blood circulation. Drinking fluids (water based and preferably warm to hot) can really help with your personal "comfort-rating" temps.

Respiration also causes heat loss, but it's a two-edged sword. It's been the wise method to avoid breathing inside your sleeping bag/system as respiration can cause condensation which can really screw up the performance of your insulation and exacerbate any effects of conduction or convection heat losses. The method I use is a separate hat and something like a buff pulled up over my mouth with my head outside my sleeping bag. I minimize the damage of condensation while providing a little insulation to my respiration.

While I avoid the bulk and weight of synthetic insulation for my backpacking, they do have their advantages. I have a 0-degree rated bag from Wiggys and it works as advertised. I climbed into the bag with soaking wet sleep clothes on and climbed into the bag outside with 30 degree temps. I did eat and drink, so my circulation and metabolism generated and transferred body heat well, but in the early morning hours needing to heed a mother nature call, I was completely dry and was pretty impressed.

Just some other consderations beyond the sleeping bag and bivvy bag when finding a system to work below freezing.

ROCK6
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ROCK6 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 08:49 AM
bunkerbuster's Avatar
bunkerbuster bunkerbuster is online now
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Out west
Posts: 8,837
Thanks: 4,507
Thanked 22,499 Times in 7,006 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
Backpacking and capable of temps down to 20-degrees. The only way to save a couple pounds is to go with down; but it's expensive unless you find a good deal second hand.
ROCK6
Patient shopping at thrift stores will often get you good quality down sleeping bags for around $10 per bag.



Not to mention all sorts of other good sleeping bags for around $10 per bag.



Over the years I have collected around 20 high quality extra sleeping bags thrift store shopping.
__________________
Its dangerous to be right, when the government is wrong. The price of freedom can be seen at your local VA hospital.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to bunkerbuster For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 09:24 AM
charliemeyer007's Avatar
charliemeyer007 charliemeyer007 is online now
reluctant sinner
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rent Free in your head
Posts: 13,828
Thanks: 33
Thanked 23,565 Times in 8,730 Posts
Default

I still like my old PolarGuard stuff. Will work when wet. Very durable. Not as light as more modern stuff.

I would look at treated down bag and get a good ground pad, Gore-Tex bivy sack. Get a pair of polypropylene long johns you only wear in the bag, a beanie, thin gloves, heavy socks/booties. Have a leak proof bottle(s) you fill with hot water.

Sleeping bag isn't the place to save money IMHO.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to charliemeyer007 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 03:11 PM
Hick Industries's Avatar
Hick Industries Hick Industries is online now
Live Secret, Live Happy
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern Oklahoma
Posts: 14,147
Thanks: 17,557
Thanked 34,338 Times in 9,636 Posts
Default

I started backpacking in the early 1980s. Serious hikers used external frame packs (mostly Kelty) and most sleeping bags were stuffed into a water proof sack, and strapped the the frame below the pack. As such, the packability of heavy polarguard bag was not an issue. A good mid temp bag (zero to -10F) weighed about 5 lbs.

As hikers focused more on low weight and longer trails, they started buying smaller internal frame packs, and their bag now had to fit within a compartment. The packability of down and advanced synthetics became more important.

I own about a dozen bags of different ages and made from different materials. Still own my 1.5 lb down summer bag, and it still lofts after 30 yrs. I also still own my old cold weather polarguard bag.

But I wish I had heard about high quality down bags back when I got started. Because the best advise I have ever read is to buy a cold weather down bag (made from the highest loft goose down you can afford), and a mid wt synthetic bag (made from polarguard or lamonite).
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Hick Industries For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 07:27 PM
Truckersurvivor's Avatar
Truckersurvivor Truckersurvivor is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
My initial assumption is that you want the bivvy bag to serve as your shelter instead of a tent? My only caution is that I would still consider a small tarp as it allows you to get in and out of your sleeping system without getting it wet.

ROCK6
I use an old army poncho for my tarp/shelter depending on what I'm doing. I have never personally used a bivvy before. I just wanted peoples opinions on them. I've been using a one man tent.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Truckersurvivor For This Useful Post:
Old 09-12-2019, 11:58 PM
Astronomy Astronomy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pineland Expat
Posts: 4,722
Thanks: 4,120
Thanked 15,168 Times in 3,756 Posts
Default

Here's the thing... at temps down to 20F, you need a bag rated at considerably lower than that 20F to achieve actual sleeping comfort. In other words, a cold weather rated bag, not a warm weather one. You want to sleep toasty, not barely survive the frigid night.

Something actually rated for at (or just a bit above) 0F. Maybe a bag rated for 5F or 10F. You can't really touch a decent down bag with those temp ratings that also retails new for under $200. Reliably winter rated down bags simply start well above that $200 floor. Just the way of things.

So that means you need to go with more affordable synthetic filled bags. But most 0F - 10F rated synthetic bags, from even the better manufacturers, are going to go 4-5+ lbs and be pretty bulky to achieve such a rating. Bags in the $120 - $200 range.

So consider this one. It's affordable (with applied 20% discount), about as light & compressible as you'll see for any synthetic bag with a similar temperature rating, has good reviews, and it will keep you genuinely warm at 20F (instead of shivering):



The North Face Guide 0; rated for 0 degrees F; 3lbs & 11 oz at Regular Size; $220 (minus 20% with 1st order discount = $176)

https://www.backcountry.com/the-nort...VlcGluZy1iYWdz

For $176 (and free shipping), you'll have a serious bag that reliably delivers the mail at 20F (or even at a warmer 32F). You'll be warm, you can actually carry it on a hike, and you won't scorch your wallet.

Echoing bunkerbuster's advice, I also heartily recommend shopping for used quality bags on places like Craigslist, local classifieds, thrift stores, pawn shops, etc. You can sometimes pick up screaming deals on high performance, but lightly used bags from very reputable firms. Marmot, TNF, Mountain Hardwear, Big Agnes, etc. People will buy an expensive bag, maybe use it a couple of times, then sell it for a song when they decide to quit hiking or camping, when they decide to upgrade to something even better, or when they desperately need cash.

Concerning the very affordable USGI MSS (Modular Sleep System), here are my 1st hand observations (including actual component weights):

https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...9&postcount=20
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Astronomy For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2019, 01:11 PM
Astronomy Astronomy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pineland Expat
Posts: 4,722
Thanks: 4,120
Thanked 15,168 Times in 3,756 Posts
Default

I use tents for primarily winter snow bivouacs. Very occasionally for desert dust storms, beach camping (blowing sand/biting sand flies), or during biting insect swarm seasons in certain places.

All that to say that my normal 3-season recreational hiking roof is an infantry-style tarp shelter (or poncho hootch). Either on the ground or over a hammock. I like the open sided visibility provided as well as the breezy ventilation offered while cooking or drying out wet items.

But... blowing rain, heavy dew, wet fog, or unexpected wet snow flurries can get in around the sides of that overhead coverage. Even if you pitch it well. This is where a breathable bivy sack shines. By keeping your sleeping insulation (bag, quilt, blanket, etc.) dry. Protected from precipitation. Bivy bags also allow you to safely sleep/rest under open skies without overhead shelter. Or roll around in your sleep and find your sleeping bag's footbox extending out into the downpour or dripping vegetation.

The classic ground sleeping system = sleeping bag, ground pad, breathable bivy. All three components perform critically separate (but symbiotic) functions. I can sleep with my bag not encased in a bivy (and often do), but I always bring the bivy along. Like having a rain suit stuffed into a pack outer pocket. You don't need it until you do. Foolish not to have one.

Over a pound lighter than the Military MSS bivy, another decent breathable model is this one:

Slumberjack Contour Bivy; ~$100; 21 ounces; offers some very useful and well thought out features (camo, arm holes, hooped face shield, etc.).

https://slumberjack.com/sjk-contour-bivy/
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Astronomy For This Useful Post:
Old 09-13-2019, 06:11 PM
Vanishing Nomad Vanishing Nomad is offline
Improvise Adapt Overcome!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Aurora, IL
Age: 51
Posts: 11,796
Thanks: 5,582
Thanked 12,127 Times in 5,315 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckersurvivor View Post
I'd I had to pick between cost, weight, and performance. I'd choose cost and weight. As seeing I plan of using it for hiking. So I'm trying not to add to much weight to my pack. If need be I can always use a mylar bivvy for extra warmth. Currently now, I'm using just a simple wool blanket. I don't mind the using the blanket. I'd just prefer a sleeping bag. If I could find one that's not too bulky and heavy.
You can sew velcro along the edges, and then the wool blanket becomes a sleeping bag.
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-13-2019, 07:57 PM
Truckersurvivor's Avatar
Truckersurvivor Truckersurvivor is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 23
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanishing Nomad View Post
You can sew velcro along the edges, and then the wool blanket becomes a sleeping bag.
That's actually a brilliant idea. I don't know why I didn't think of that earlier. It's simple and easy also cost effective.
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-13-2019, 08:11 PM
recklessdriver recklessdriver is online now
Prepper elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lax
Posts: 4,359
Thanks: 860
Thanked 3,833 Times in 1,900 Posts
Default

I'll second the mss sleep system. If you crush it down tight it's not terrible
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-13-2019, 09:23 PM
SIG-em's Avatar
SIG-em SIG-em is offline
Krieg Hundchen
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: OPSEC
Posts: 127
Thanks: 143
Thanked 231 Times in 72 Posts
Default

A surplus Gortex sleeping bag system.
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-13-2019, 10:50 PM
Greyscale's Avatar
Greyscale Greyscale is offline
lfhnar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 359
Thanks: 174
Thanked 725 Times in 212 Posts
Default

MSS, even if you're planning on backpacking...

Provided you're willing to forgo a tent. The whole point of the mss is that its all you need. Its your sleep system and shelter, and meant to keep you alive and dry down to -40 or a bit below with proper planning.

Thats with a sleep mat, though.
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-14-2019, 07:25 AM
recklessdriver recklessdriver is online now
Prepper elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lax
Posts: 4,359
Thanks: 860
Thanked 3,833 Times in 1,900 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
MSS, even if you're planning on backpacking...

Provided you're willing to forgo a tent. The whole point of the mss is that its all you need. Its your sleep system and shelter, and meant to keep you alive and dry down to -40 or a bit below with proper planning.

Thats with a sleep mat, though.
You will need to flip it every 4 to 6 hours in extreme cold as it the padding gets crushed.
Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net