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Old 09-06-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
Everyone here knows i support the President
But i have to agree with Zumhug
If u start messing with the interpretation of the 14th.... opens the door to interpret the 2nd

Like it or not
We don't agree on a lot. But literally this is what I have been saying for P A G E S yet people don't seem to get it.

When we start placing ideology in how we look at the Constitution, we are no better than activist judges who do the same thing. The words are there for a reason and matter.

There are ways to change this, it is not, however, ok for the President to do this with the pen. Let the process play out.
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Old 09-06-2019, 10:21 AM
sabotage39k sabotage39k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zumhug View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
Everyone here knows i support the President
But i have to agree with Zumhug
If u start messing with the interpretation of the 14th.... opens the door to interpret the 2nd

Like it or not
We don't agree on a lot. But literally this is what I have been saying for P A G E S yet people don't seem to get it.

When we start placing ideology in how we look at the Constitution, we are no better than activist judges who do the same thing. The words are there for a reason and matter.

There are ways to change this, it is not, however, ok for the President to do this with the pen. Let the process play out.
We? Zumbug that ship has sailed a long time ago. Objectivity, moral clarity, principle, and intellectual honesty is gone. The extremes of the political spectrums are running the show here. The rational Pragmatic American is marginalized.

In this environment, people aren’t going to find resolution on a piece of paper meant to give order, fairness, and governance. No, it will be weaponized, interpreted, re interpreted, circumvented, and cherry picked to push forward a purpose.

This is a political war that we are in the midst of and hopefully by the grace of God will never turn into an actual physical hot war. But it is more than clear that it is a hot political war. A lot of posters here know this and you really can’t count on objective honesty. Some willfully understand the literal words in the constitution, but will never give an inch to that acknowledgement because it would mean giving up an inch on the battlefield. So, zumbug we are long past your fear. The facts and objective truth just get in the way.
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
Everyone here knows i support the President
But i have to agree with Zumhug
If u start messing with the interpretation of the 14th.... opens the door to interpret the 2nd
My friend, if you think creative interpreting of the 2A has waited until invaded at the Southern border, you are gravely mistaken.

Context is key. Original intent is key. This is true whether we are talking about the 2A or the 14A. No one can write a concise statement anticipating all future motivations to creatively interpret what is written. Simply put, the 14A was not written to reward invasion. Any such construction is nefarious, at best.
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
Everyone here knows i support the President
But i have to agree with Zumhug
If u start messing with the interpretation of the 14th.... opens the door to interpret the 2nd

Like it or not
This is clearly a fear of yours. You've said it twice, now. Unsupported.

Can you cite an instance where the Supreme Court ruled on a direct application of an amendment (or amendments) where the ruling has affected the interpretation of a completely different & unrelated amendment??
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by clocker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
Everyone here knows i support the President
But i have to agree with Zumhug
If u start messing with the interpretation of the 14th.... opens the door to interpret the 2nd

Like it or not
This is clearly a fear of yours. You've said it twice, now. Unsupported.

Can you cite an instance where the Supreme Court ruled on a direct application of an amendment (or amendments) where the ruling has affected the interpretation of a completely different & unrelated amendment??
I have no fears. I do have good instincts
Open your eyes.... the 2nd is under a constant attack.
Eventually.....very soon. A lib will be in the White House. With a pen
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
I have no fears. I do have good instincts
Open your eyes.... the 2nd is under a constant attack.
Eventually.....very soon. A lib will be in the White House. With a pen
^^ I have no doubt as to the attack on the Second. But (paraphrased) 'the reinterpretation of the Fourteenth causing the Second to be reinterpreted**'?? Not so much. You still haven't supported this linkage.


** BTW, the SCOTUS has not directly ruled on Birthright citizen as it relates to Section I of the 14th, so a "reinterpretation" is not correct...
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:54 AM
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The 14th will remain unchanged
Our President cant change it.
I agree...it has been abused. Just as other amendments have been abused
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
The 14th will remain unchanged
Our President cant change it.
If President Trump stops the policy of birthright citizenship, it *will* go to the SCOTUS. So, technically, he isn't changing it; he's forcing the Supreme Court's hands. They will have to deal with the long-misinterpreted use of the Fourteenth. Or confirme it. Either way, they will have to deal with it, if President Trump follows thru on this.

Quote:
I agree...it has been abused. Just as other amendments have been abused
Very true! Totally agree.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by clocker View Post
If President Trump stops the policy of birthright citizenship, it *will* go to the SCOTUS. So, technically, he isn't changing it; he's forcing the Supreme Court's hands. They will have to deal with the long-misinterpreted use of the Fourteenth. Or confirme it. Either way, they will have to deal with it, if President Trump follows thru on this.



Very true! Totally agree.
But he won't because it's too late. The backlash would be enormous. What you are not getting is that this is a fight you should have had back in the 60's when white sheets were still cool. Such a move would galvanized and energize every minority to resist and embrace the dems even if it means going against their principles. The writing would be on the wall for all of them to see. He won't do it. He is trying to get your vote with lip service, not torpedo the GOP.

Last time the minority vote was energized in a dramatic fashion was in 2008. Look at what that brought you.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sabotage39k View Post
But he won't because it's too late. The backlash would be enormous. What you are not getting is that this is a fight you should have had back in the 60's when white sheets were still cool. Such a move would galvanized and energize every minority to resist and embrace the dems even if it means going against their principles. The writing would be on the wall for all of them to see. He won't do it. He is trying to get your vote with lip service, not torpedo the GOP.

Last time the minority vote was energized in a dramatic fashion was in 2008. Look at what that brought you.
Agree that it has a 'closing the barn doors' feel to it. But one has to start somewhere.

We don't have access to Dr Who and the TARDIS, so "fixing it 60-70 years ago" is out. We have to do what we can, when we can. Which is now. You think any other Presidents have the balls (and the 'I don't care what the MSM and talking heads are crying about' attitude) to do this?

If not now (or soon), when? We wait another 30 year for the next Trump? Or when the Dems have perpetual power in the White House?
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:23 PM
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Agree that it has a 'closing the barn doors' feel to it. But one has to start somewhere.

We don't have access to Dr Who and the TARDIS, so "fixing it 60-70 years ago" is out. We have to do what we can, when we can. Which is now. You think any other Presidents have the balls (and the 'I don't care what the MSM and talking heads are crying about' attitude) to do this?

If not now (or soon), when? We wait another 30 year for the next Trump?
Having Balls means taking action. He has been saying this since when? 2016? before then? He has the power to do it. He is right. An EO is enough to get it started and pushed through the courts as you know it will be challenged. But nothing? What balls? Talking smack, but no action to get you guys worked up for votes? That is what you characterize as having balls?
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:33 PM
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Having Balls means taking action. He has been saying this since when? 2016? before then? He has the power to do it. He is right. An EO is enough to get it started and pushed through the courts as you know it will be challenged. But nothing? What balls? Talking smack, but no action to get you guys worked up for votes? That is what you characterize as having balls?
More balls than the last like 5 presidents. I'm not even sure the O-man had any. His "wife" wore them, I think. Literally.
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Old 09-06-2019, 01:42 PM
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Well we know Obama had no balls. I wouldn’t put trump past bush 2 though. Trump tries to play nice with our enemies. Bush just eliminated them. Our enemies lived in fear under bush. Right now our enemies are living and operating in a vacuum filled with laughter.
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