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Old 02-18-2015, 07:43 PM
CitizenPete CitizenPete is offline
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That's a tough one.

With the same capacity its almost a coin flip for me. Definitely a modernized VZ over an AKM with the same capacity.

From what I have read the Sampol Vzor 58 variants are, or may, be banned in the FREE democratic country of Canada. Rumor (rumor) has it that it could be the reason the USSA is getting "blessed" with inexpensive VZ2008 58V paras right now -- they were slated for the great white north before more tyranny set in.

If you DO have a choice here are a few things to consider - I DO NOT HAVE A PREFERENCE - and skipping all the similarities:

1. the faulty magazine pin on the 58 has some upside
2. the weight of the 58 may be lighter
3. both accept stripper clips - stock up on BXNs or Yugo surplus or Chinese and throw the aftermarket clips in the bin.
4. either rifle have variants available with chrome lined barrel - which may be helpful if shooting corrosive surplus without the ability to stop mandatory activities and clean as desired.
5. The SKS has a few less working parts and springs that might break over time.
6. You only need to stock up on stripper clips for the SKS, you done have to think about storing or carrying mags. (you could put a shorty in the VZ and go with clips as well -- but you wont)
7. Unless you get a bullpup SKS, I am not aware of a folder SKS. The VZ can be equipped with a folder stock that might be more maneuverable in travel and concealable. (are you guys allowed to have folders)
8. unless you upgrade the front BB hand guard on the 58, it may get too hot when rapid firing. A rail system would also give you mounting capabilities.

If you survive in a WROL / WTSHTF situation you might just be picking up a full auto along the way anyway. I would advise to stay north of the USSA, but you can way station here in NE Ohio for a few nights anytime. Just radio ahead unless you want free ammo, in contiguous salvo.
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:45 PM
xxclaro xxclaro is offline
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Considering the prices, I'd probably go with the SKS minus the Tapco stock. I'd spend that money on some more ammo instead. The CZ is for sure a nicer firearm but you pay for it too. The SKS will do anything you'll likely ever need from it, and for the price you could actually buy several.
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:02 PM
pistolkiller pistolkiller is offline
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Absolutely take the vz58 over the SKS even though my SKS is a d model and takes ak mags vz are awesome and accurateB-)
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:02 PM
yipykyah yipykyah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmedman View Post
I've owned an SKS, and after shooting a friends, will be buying a VZ someday.
The VZ is head and shoulders above the SKS, but I think SKS's are over-hyped anyway. (Heavy, low cap, iffy detachable mag conversions, so-so ergos, etc...)

The VZ is an improved AK, they're very nice IMHO.
VZ is worlds better than the SKS.

Only interchangeable parts with the AK and VZ is the ammunition.
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:28 PM
Turtlewolf Turtlewolf is offline
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I forgot to add, forget the plastic furniture, leave the SKS as is and maybe add a Mojo sight and ventilated metal top handgaurd.
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:36 PM
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VZ is a fine rifle for sure but in Canada I can get a SKS + 3-4 crates of surplus ammo for the cost of a single VZ rifle.

No-brainer for bargain hunters like me

And I agree with the parts durability comparison. VZ is more refined but has weaker internals. SKS is a heavy, overbuilt chunk of commie steel but the things are hard to kill.

My russky beater SKS has at least 10000 rounds through it by now and hasnt failed me once and I paid a whopping $169+tax for it

How much is that VZ again? $900? $1000?

Happy shooting!
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Old 02-18-2015, 10:35 PM
Wyttrash Wyttrash is offline
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The Cons signed off on the debacle with the CZ 858, and have basically done as little as possible to make the gun laws any more sensible, so I wouldn't consider them an avid choice anymore. They've had their chance.

SKSs and VZs are both great rifles. If you're on a tight budget, you can't go wrong with an SKS. If you can afford the bigger initial investment, go with the VZ. I like that they can be fitted with a surplus folding stock and be tucked into a (large) backpack and moved without gaining excessive attention.

Whether you go with the .223 or the 7.62, you have mag options either way once you have the AR mag well fitted by a gunsmith. 10 shots from a 7.62 LAR-10 pistol mag are fun, and the Beowulf mags open up a .223 nicely. You also have a much larger mag market with .223 (Pmags, drums, etc) but most are still 5 shots. I strongly advise against losing the river from the stock mag. An extra few shots usually isn't worth losing your vehicle, or even your freedom.
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Old 02-18-2015, 11:43 PM
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If you need a pistol grip to feel Tacti-Kool go with any of the replacement stocks on an SKS.

If you want the rifle to be useful at close quarters, keep the original stock and learn how to fight with it.
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Old 02-18-2015, 11:50 PM
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Going back to the Norinco M14S - surplus stripper clips for 7.62x51 are 5rds.
You can run the M14 like an SKS without needing modified stripper clips or a ton of 5rd mags.

I'd still have a good qty of mags though.
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Old 02-19-2015, 12:42 AM
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I handled a VZ2008 at the range, and it was NICE. We went with a couple Saigas, VEPRs, SKSs, and ARs and I left drooling over that VZ2008. I never knew an AK analogue could be so light. VERY nice construction and finish. The only reason I havent jumped on one is I have SOOOO many AK mags, i'd hate to start over hoarding a new non-interchangable mag.
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Old 02-19-2015, 12:58 AM
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USAF-ORF USAF-ORF is offline
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Cool BaCk in the day

I remember when a Chinese SKS sold for 69 bucks.
Was that 1991 or 1992.
Built to give third world uneducated peasants a easily to clean (pee down the barrel so your ammonia will neutralize the corrosive ammo)
And uses cheap throw away stripper clips.
If budget is a concern I would buy one again and stock the rest in ammo.
There are still some spare parts out there. I think keep shooting had some new trigger assemblies made for the market.
Practice and train and any weapon will make you an effective weapon system.
Stay safe
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Old 02-19-2015, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Systematic Mechanic View Post
Well I have them all ( AKM ,SKS ,VZ2008 and the SKS is a nice shooter
but I consider it now a collectors item. it's fun but I wouldn't want to
have to depend on it.
I agree with this. The VZ.58 is great. I'd rather have it than an AK. The VZ.2008, which is the most common variant available in the U.S. lately, is not reliable enough to depend on, in general. You may happen to get a reliable one, but they are very iffy. I don't know which is available in Canada, "real" VZ.58s or VZ.2008s. The VZ.58 is a great design, better than the AK, the problem is most of the ones available in the U.S. have U.S. barrels and receivers. The barrels are usually fine but the receivers have problems interacting with the bolt, resulting in frequent feed issues with no easy solution.

I'd probably go with the SKS. But then, I'd probably go with (at least strongly consider) an SKS over a semi-auto AK with 30-round magazines. If you can get a full-auto AK, that may change things. The rest of my post assumes a semi-auto AK.

The reasons: 1 - SKS has superior shooting characteristics; more accurate, more powerful, and (subjectively - my opinion) more ergonomic and better reacquisition of target after shots. 2 - SKS looks more low-key, easily confused for a hunting rifle (and unlike the AK, actually is a credible hunting rifle). 3 - SKS is usually cheaper.

The main reason to get the AK instead, greater capacity, is a minor issue in my eyes. I am not in favor of magazine limits, I think it should be legal to have full auto and 100-round magazines, belt-fed, whatever. But in practical use, I think the SKS' capacity is fine given that both rifles are semi-auto. The SKS loads with stripper clips (Russian or Chinese only, the others are junk), and once you have practice doing that, your rate of fire won't be a lot lower over time than it would be with an AK.

The AK's capacity becomes important in full auto use.
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:07 PM
AirForceVeteran AirForceVeteran is offline
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The issue is NOT that some politicians could make gun laws that "make sense", it is that there are even attempts to make any 'gun' laws as if criminals who are insane, would even obey!

IF you like the ownership of firearms, then why would you tolerate, & submit to,
ANY laws which everyone already admits only restrict lawful citizen's natural Rights to self defense!?

If you start now, you could turn around the voter bias enough to get good debates going!
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:47 PM
broncoII broncoII is offline
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I hate telling people what gun unit to buy. They both have their uses, but you're the one who knows your situation. That said, any detachable magazine rifle is of more use in a WROL situation.

If "they" have their way we'll be having arguments about about which single shot 22 fires a frangible bullet limited to 60' range works the best as protection.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:12 PM
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VZ is the way yo go.
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Old 02-20-2015, 01:45 PM
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At risk of being a broken record, I really think people need to understand that the ~$500 VZ.58s you see for sale now are almost always Century Arms, and Century Arms is a crappy company.

The furniture, trigger group and bolt are surplus. The barrel and receiver are U.S.-made. The steel used is fine, the barrel is fine (barrels being common components, there is a lot of expertise in making them), but the machining of the receivers is a problem area. You have a crappy company making or sourcing relatively low volume replacements for an obscure part. They are not going to spend the extra money to nail it in every way, they are going to go with what is "good enough" for a low price point with basically no warranty.

Crappy companies can produce good rifles, but you're really rolling the dice. It's OK for a range toy, but I would not buy one of these expecting to bet your life on it.

A good-quality VZ.58 will probably run $900+ when you can find them, and they are rare.

Here is a review ... jump down to the "reliability" section and read his experience with the VZ.2008 from Century Arms.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...czech-vzor-58/

In his case, the barrel worked its way out after a couple hundred rounds, resulting in headspace problems and light primer strikes. But, I've also heard of copious feed problems with the rifles from people I know who have tried them.

The VZ.2008 has broken many hearts, because it's such a handy, cool design, for a great price, but not nearly reliable and with no easy fix to make it reliable.

I wouldn't blame you if you buy one anyway, but don't say nobody warned you
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:48 AM
DontKnowWhatI'mDoing DontKnowWhatI'mDoing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyttrash View Post
The Cons signed off on the debacle with the CZ 858, and have basically done as little as possible to make the gun laws any more sensible, so I wouldn't consider them an avid choice anymore. They've had their chance.

SKSs and VZs are both great rifles. If you're on a tight budget, you can't go wrong with an SKS. If you can afford the bigger initial investment, go with the VZ. I like that they can be fitted with a surplus folding stock and be tucked into a (large) backpack and moved without gaining excessive attention.

Whether you go with the .223 or the 7.62, you have mag options either way once you have the AR mag well fitted by a gunsmith. 10 shots from a 7.62 LAR-10 pistol mag are fun, and the Beowulf mags open up a .223 nicely. You also have a much larger mag market with .223 (Pmags, drums, etc) but most are still 5 shots. I strongly advise against losing the river from the stock mag. An extra few shots usually isn't worth losing your vehicle, or even your freedom.
I'm not taking the rivets out unless it's in a situation where the law doesn't exist. Trust me, my family are lawyers, I want nothing to do with jail lol.
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:53 AM
DontKnowWhatI'mDoing DontKnowWhatI'mDoing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jknova View Post
At risk of being a broken record, I really think people need to understand that the ~$500 VZ.58s you see for sale now are almost always Century Arms, and Century Arms is a crappy company.

The furniture, trigger group and bolt are surplus. The barrel and receiver are U.S.-made. The steel used is fine, the barrel is fine (barrels being common components, there is a lot of expertise in making them), but the machining of the receivers is a problem area. You have a crappy company making or sourcing relatively low volume replacements for an obscure part. They are not going to spend the extra money to nail it in every way, they are going to go with what is "good enough" for a low price point with basically no warranty.

Crappy companies can produce good rifles, but you're really rolling the dice. It's OK for a range toy, but I would not buy one of these expecting to bet your life on it.

A good-quality VZ.58 will probably run $900+ when you can find them, and they are rare.

Here is a review ... jump down to the "reliability" section and read his experience with the VZ.2008 from Century Arms.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...czech-vzor-58/

In his case, the barrel worked its way out after a couple hundred rounds, resulting in headspace problems and light primer strikes. But, I've also heard of copious feed problems with the rifles from people I know who have tried them.

The VZ.2008 has broken many hearts, because it's such a handy, cool design, for a great price, but not nearly reliable and with no easy fix to make it reliable.

I wouldn't blame you if you buy one anyway, but don't say nobody warned you
I'm pretty sure Century is a banned company in Canada or something, I've never seen any of their products here. The VZ.58 I'm talking about is CSA and $1 000.
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Old 02-21-2015, 07:30 AM
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In that case, VZ vs SKS, it's mainly a question of cost. Both are good deals.
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Old 02-21-2015, 09:47 PM
saskcop saskcop is offline
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The VZ58's in Canada are chambered in either 5.56 or 7.62x39 and are made by CSA - or Czech Small Arms. They are beautifully made rifles with 18.6" barrels - which certainly doesn't hurt ballistics. They come with either a chrome lined barrel or a plain barrel - your choice. There are also actual CZ VZ58's in Canada which are actually labelled as CZ858. These are fantastic quality and tremendous shooters. They are currently at the centre of a bureaucratic nightmare which may prohibit them over a technicality.

Either way, these are great guns and vastly superior to an SKS. An SKS is a great gun for the money, but it weighs a heck of a lot more than a VZ58, is less ergonomic and the Tapco SKS stuff is kinda bush-league in comparison to the Zahal stuff and the NEA and the BC Tactical stuff available for the VZ58.

I have three VZ58's and would trust them with my life.

Just my $.02. Your mileage may vary.
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