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Old 11-20-2016, 03:02 PM
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Default Firearms Survival Combo: my POV



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Firearm Survival Combo: my point of view (POV)

I am new to these forums but have been an avid firearm owner and shooter for quite some years. I recently have been looking into educating myself about survival because of the state of world peace. Firearms are an important part of it.

Because of my military background, I have come to the conclusion that a bolt action rifle and pistol are the best firearms Survival Combo. Obviously, not everyone will agree with me and that's fine.

Why a bolt action rifle and not a semi-auto ?

A bolt action rifle is inherently more accurate than a semi-auto (see Precision Rifle Series as a data point). Bolt action rifles are less prone to mechanical malfunctions than semi-autos. In a survival environment, I am not looking to engage in direct assaults on sites of interest; I am more interested in avoiding armed conflict so stealth and ambush are key; If a shot must be taken, I would rather take a single shot at 200-300 yards, hit the target and deter others through the psychological effect of facing a hidden precision shooter; bolt action forces you to make every shot count and not rely on "spray and pray".

Which bolt action rifle caliber and set up?

308 Winchester: availability, power, versatility and inherently accurate round. Short barreled 20" in a light stock with a low powered magnification scope like 1-6 or 1-8 for fast target acquisition and wide range of view.

9mm pistol

A 9mm pistol for close quarter engagements, concealability and versatility. The 9mm is very common, and its availability in many configurations make it a very capable round.

Avoiding a firefight does not make you a coward, it makes you a survivor.

DMR308
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Old 11-20-2016, 04:58 PM
DDinCo DDinCo is offline
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If that's what flotes your boat go for it.
I on the other hand will stick to my M4 SBR, handy just as accurate as a bolt gun and able to engage multiple close targets.
My thinking is you're not going to keep everyone at 600 yds. for months you're going to have to talk to people to trade and get Intel. If I'm trading with a small group of say 3 people and all of a sudden things go south I want multiple shots very quickly.
My M4 is plenty accurate. I can hit a 300 yd man type target with iron sights with boring regularity but I shoot a lot and know my rifle.
I don't need to hit the 3rd button on his shirt I just need to hit him.
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Old 11-20-2016, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DMR308 View Post
Firearm Survival Combo: my point of view (POV)

I am new to these forums but have been an avid firearm owner and shooter for quite some years. I recently have been looking into educating myself about survival because of the state of world peace. Firearms are an important part of it.

Because of my military background, I have come to the conclusion that a bolt action rifle and pistol are the best firearms Survival Combo. Obviously, not everyone will agree with me and that's fine.

Why a bolt action rifle and not a semi-auto ?

A bolt action rifle is inherently more accurate than a semi-auto (see Precision Rifle Series as a data point). Bolt action rifles are less prone to mechanical malfunctions than semi-autos. In a survival environment, I am not looking to engage in direct assaults on sites of interest; I am more interested in avoiding armed conflict so stealth and ambush are key; If a shot must be taken, I would rather take a single shot at 200-300 yards, hit the target and deter others through the psychological effect of facing a hidden precision shooter; bolt action forces you to make every shot count and not rely on "spray and pray".

Which bolt action rifle caliber and set up?

308 Winchester: availability, power, versatility and inherently accurate round. Short barreled 20" in a light stock with a low powered magnification scope like 1-6 or 1-8 for fast target acquisition and wide range of view.

9mm pistol

A 9mm pistol for close quarter engagements, concealability and versatility. The 9mm is very common, and its availability in many configurations make it a very capable round.

Avoiding a firefight does not make you a coward, it makes you a survivor.

DMR308
I can think of a lot of reasons to carry a bolt action rifle, lots of reasons why you would want a full power hunting cartridge as well.

But I have a couple of questions about your area.
What is your environment? Elevation, winds, cover?
What critters will you be hunting?
What predators must you defend against?

I have some questions about the rifle as well.
What action are you using?
Barrel and stock material?
Scope mount? Backup sights?
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DDinCo View Post
If that's what flotes your boat go for it.
I on the other hand will stick to my M4 SBR, handy just as accurate as a bolt gun and able to engage multiple close targets.
My thinking is you're not going to keep everyone at 600 yds. for months you're going to have to talk to people to trade and get Intel. If I'm trading with a small group of say 3 people and all of a sudden things go south I want multiple shots very quickly.
My M4 is plenty accurate. I can hit a 300 yd man type target with iron sights with boring regularity but I shoot a lot and know my rifle.
I don't need to hit the 3rd button on his shirt I just need to hit him.
Valid points. I believe in guerrilla tactics when survival comes into play, I believe in deception, stealth, concealment and ambush. This may sound violent but no rules apply when war hits and survival is the answer.

I believe in group tactics and a group needs to be made up of several specialties in order to be able to adapt. From my military experience, snipers could monitor and control a specific area with incredible efficiency. Yes, they had assaulters on the front line and backing them up but snipers were a definite deterrent and excellent at reducing and neutralizing threats.

The reality is your setup is as good as mine, we simply play two different roles but the goal is the same.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
I can think of a lot of reasons to carry a bolt action rifle, lots of reasons why you would want a full power hunting cartridge as well.

But I have a couple of questions about your area.
What is your environment? Elevation, winds, cover?
What critters will you be hunting?
What predators must you defend against?

I have some questions about the rifle as well.
What action are you using?
Barrel and stock material?
Scope mount? Backup sights?
What is your environment? Elevation, winds, cover?
My environment varies from rural to urban, a mix of all terrains, I live on the border between urban and rural area.

What critters will you be hunting? Snares will take care of critters since snare are very effective, no expanded energy on my part and my partner also will be sporting a 22.

What predators must you defend against? Bears, wolves and cougars.

I have some questions about the rifle as well.
What action are you using?
Remington 700, very common, parts easy to find, reliable.

Barrel and stock material? Barrel is the original chrome lined steel barrel. Stock is an aluminum chassis, light and solid V shaped bedding but I have not made my final decision about the stock as I might look for something lighter.

Scope mount? Backup sights? Scope mount is removable to revert to back up irons. Back up irons, I am looking for some.
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Old 11-21-2016, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by DMR308 View Post
What is your environment? Elevation, winds, cover?
My environment varies from rural to urban, a mix of all terrains, I live on the border between urban and rural area.

What critters will you be hunting? Snares will take care of critters since snare are very effective, no expanded energy on my part and my partner also will be sporting a 22.

What predators must you defend against? Bears, wolves and cougars.

I have some questions about the rifle as well.
What action are you using?
Remington 700, very common, parts easy to find, reliable.

Barrel and stock material? Barrel is the original chrome lined steel barrel. Stock is an aluminum chassis, light and solid V shaped bedding but I have not made my final decision about the stock as I might look for something lighter.

Scope mount? Backup sights? Scope mount is removable to revert to back up irons. Back up irons, I am looking for some.
I asked about your plans because I just traded away my 308 carbine, and I am planning to build another.

My last carbine was built on a small ring Mauser action, with a 20" premium CM barrel (Lothar Walther), and a Leupold scope. It weighed 7.5 complete with scope, sling, and ammo.

I am planning to build another 308 carbine. I now live in eastern Oklahoma and I have to deal with far more black bear, hogs, and Cougars, than urban gang members.

I am planning to use a Brno VZ-24 action, a stainless barrel, and a synthetic stock. I have not decided on optics and sights yet.
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Old 11-21-2016, 02:10 PM
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Welcome...
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Old 11-21-2016, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DMR308 View Post
Why a bolt action rifle and not a semi-auto ?

A bolt action rifle is inherently more accurate than a semi-auto (see Precision Rifle Series as a data point). Bolt action rifles are less prone to mechanical malfunctions than semi-autos. In a survival environment, I am not looking to engage in direct assaults on sites of interest; I am more interested in avoiding armed conflict so stealth and ambush are key; If a shot must be taken, I would rather take a single shot at 200-300 yards, hit the target and deter others through the psychological effect of facing a hidden precision shooter; bolt action forces you to make every shot count and not rely on "spray and pray".
The last few years have seen semi-autos released that can be as accurate as bolt actions. Where bolt actions are better is that they are cheaper, lighter weight, and as mentioned less potential for mechanical failure. These are valid reasons, especially for scouting, hunting.

Its up to the end user if the slight weight reduction and 25%-50% cost reduction are worth losing the ability to lay down faster fire. MY choice is, I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Part of that choice is that I have good stores, am not in an area friendly to hunting, and could see urban/suburban raiders in larger groups.

There is no such thing as "spray and pray" in modern doctrine, that a FUDD talking point to disparage SA. There is semi-auto aimed fire and suppressive fire for maneuvering, etc. The only people use "spray and pray" are african child soldiers. Frankly, such foolish arguments weaken your points.
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Old 11-21-2016, 04:14 PM
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Most accurate rifle I ever owned, bolt or semi, was a SOCOM 16. I would not hesitate to use that for my one survival rifle if need be.
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Old 11-21-2016, 04:23 PM
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lol 200-300 yards is not long distance, most modern semi-automatic rifles are more than capable at those ranges....

really i don't see the point of bolt actions any more short of 800 yard plus precision paper punchers..... my semi-auto .308's seem to be accurate enough at 1,000 yards to hit a man or deer sized object as needed...the harder part is developing the skill, my rifles are capable of doing this, more so than i am at least, it usually takes me some walking to get on target at that distance, but once on target as long as i keep doing my part the semi-auto .308's i have do what is asked of them....
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Old 11-21-2016, 04:24 PM
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You mentioned your military experience more than once. Just curious, what comprised that experience?
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Old 11-21-2016, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DMR308 View Post
Firearm Survival Combo: my point of view (POV)

I am new to these forums but have been an avid firearm owner and shooter for quite some years. I recently have been looking into educating myself about survival because of the state of world peace. Firearms are an important part of it.

Because of my military background, I have come to the conclusion that a bolt action rifle and pistol are the best firearms Survival Combo. Obviously, not everyone will agree with me and that's fine.

Why a bolt action rifle and not a semi-auto ?

A bolt action rifle is inherently more accurate than a semi-auto (see Precision Rifle Series as a data point). Bolt action rifles are less prone to mechanical malfunctions than semi-autos. In a survival environment, I am not looking to engage in direct assaults on sites of interest; I am more interested in avoiding armed conflict so stealth and ambush are key; If a shot must be taken, I would rather take a single shot at 200-300 yards, hit the target and deter others through the psychological effect of facing a hidden precision shooter; bolt action forces you to make every shot count and not rely on "spray and pray".

Which bolt action rifle caliber and set up?

308 Winchester: availability, power, versatility and inherently accurate round. Short barreled 20" in a light stock with a low powered magnification scope like 1-6 or 1-8 for fast target acquisition and wide range of view.

9mm pistol

A 9mm pistol for close quarter engagements, concealability and versatility. The 9mm is very common, and its availability in many configurations make it a very capable round.

Avoiding a firefight does not make you a coward, it makes you a survivor.

DMR308
Question 1: If you are an advocate of avoidance, stealth, and ambush, then why do you need a sidearm? Shouldn't your bolt action suffice from the shadows of concealment?

Question 2: If you are an advocate of bolt action rather than semi, then why are you not strategizing about distances consistent with true bolt action efficacy ... 500+ yards ... rather than 200-300 yard distances where most semis are highly accurate, have a greater round capacity and rate of fire, and are on par with bolt guns with respect to ballistics, etc.?

Question 3: What urban-rural border do you straddle where bears, wolves, and cougars are a constant and legitimate threat?
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Old 11-21-2016, 05:54 PM
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Why a bolt action rifle and not a semi-auto ?

A bolt action rifle is inherently more accurate than a semi-auto

"More accurate" maybe, though that is less and less realistic in today's guns; but if the semi is "accurate enough", then that is moot.



If a shot must be taken, I would rather take a single shot at 200-300 yards, hit the target and deter others through the psychological effect of facing a hidden precision shooter

I can easily do that with a semi. Oddly enough, they DO actually function in a "one shot burst" mode.


; bolt action forces you to make every shot count and not rely on "spray and pray".

Bolt action forces you spend seconds you may not have cycling the bolt between shots, if you need to take more than one...and "spray and pray" is a TV concept, or a military suppressive fire technique, not any more valid as a shooting "technique" than running belts thorough an M60 from the hip while standing in one place.

Which bolt action rifle caliber and set up?

308 Winchester: availability, power, versatility and inherently accurate round.

Where does that myth come from?

From the interwebz...."The specifics of the cartridge design itself have little to do with real world accuracy, and there is probably no such thing as an inherently accurate hunting cartridge design."

You want better accuracy...go to a cartridge with long bullets for the weight. .270, 7mm, 6.5 mm, 6mm...all will probably be "more" accurate than a .308, and will have less drop, less wind drift, and some may even carry more energy on target and penetrate better. Or step up in the .30 cal, and go to something like the 300 WinMag with 220+ grain slugs.


I think your reasoning is OK, but some of your underlying assumptions are just wrong.
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Old 11-21-2016, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DMR308 View Post
Firearm Survival Combo: my point of view (POV)

I am new to these forums but have been an avid firearm owner and shooter for quite some years. I recently have been looking into educating myself about survival because of the state of world peace. Firearms are an important part of it.

Because of my military background, I have come to the conclusion that a bolt action rifle and pistol are the best firearms Survival Combo. Obviously, not everyone will agree with me and that's fine.

Why a bolt action rifle and not a semi-auto ?

A bolt action rifle is inherently more accurate than a semi-auto (see Precision Rifle Series as a data point). Bolt action rifles are less prone to mechanical malfunctions than semi-autos. In a survival environment, I am not looking to engage in direct assaults on sites of interest; I am more interested in avoiding armed conflict so stealth and ambush are key; If a shot must be taken, I would rather take a single shot at 200-300 yards, hit the target and deter others through the psychological effect of facing a hidden precision shooter; bolt action forces you to make every shot count and not rely on "spray and pray".

Which bolt action rifle caliber and set up?

308 Winchester: availability, power, versatility and inherently accurate round. Short barreled 20" in a light stock with a low powered magnification scope like 1-6 or 1-8 for fast target acquisition and wide range of view.

9mm pistol

A 9mm pistol for close quarter engagements, concealability and versatility. The 9mm is very common, and its availability in many configurations make it a very capable round.

Avoiding a firefight does not make you a coward, it makes you a survivor.

DMR308
Welcome. SB is great. A wealth of information and arguments when you want them. AK vs AR..knock down power of various rounds....here's my BOB- what's good/bad....bug in vs bug out, this is my knife....compound vs recurve, etc.

But in response to your choice for a rifle...I guess you haven't heard of an M1A. If I could I would.

Bottom line is your proficiency with your weapons. And semi's in .308 are fun...
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:06 PM
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i honestly have little use for a bolt action or a 308, for the scenario you described at the distances you described my AKM will handle the job just fine and i can buy twice as much ammo for the same price as the cheapest 308, and i can carry a lot more of it too while giving me rapid follow up shots and quick reloads while being bullet proof reliable.. wont need a pistol for defense either with an intermediate caliber carbine as a primary weapon

get an AR or an AK and you only need one tool, one caliber
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:25 PM
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If you want to use a bolt action rifle for self defense, that's your choice. What kills me is this attitude that you will dictate the terms of every gun fight you will ever be in. It will only be long distance or close up. Good luck.
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:40 PM
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Thing is with a POV....It's yours.....but other are obviously going to have different POV.

Most people make them selves the star of their scenario......plans may change as the first shot is fired.

Bad part of a long shooter.....pick you favorite caliber....if you are going to engage targets at 500 yards plus, what is the expected result.

What about ID'ing targets?, how many?....once the trigger is pulled....better be a critical hit as the target(S) will now make you the target.

I agree a long shooter has it place, doesn't have to be a bolt gun.....but a shotgun, hand gun.....and a smaller foraging tool all have their place.

Don't place limits on your self.
That is my POV....
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Old 11-21-2016, 08:08 PM
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I have a very extensive military background too. In two Army's but I don't get this idea that everyone is going to be a threat and must be engaged with extreme prejudice.
Most will just be trying to feed their families. It will be obvious if they have bad intentions. If you're shooting at everyone at extreme range then you're the problem and will need to be taken care of. Intel will be the most important part of any collapsed sanario. Who are the bad guys? Where are they? Are they coming my way? Who is trading fresh veggies?
I think a lot of Mad Max fantasies are going to get a lot of people wounded or killed.
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Old 11-21-2016, 08:15 PM
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And my POV is that 308 ain't enough ass in a precision long range rifle.
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Old 11-21-2016, 08:24 PM
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And my POV is that 308 ain't enough ass in a precision long range rifle.
Agreed.....but it seems military guys seem like them.

Drop at 300yds is like 22 inches.....so you need to know where your rifle shoots.......or have good glass.
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