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Old 07-19-2016, 12:47 PM
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My edc is a Glock 17 ,love the glocks had a 21 for awhile. My son carries a Rock Island 1911
It gives no problems and is accurate.
So I don't dislike 1911s I just like the glock 17 and the capacity

But every time I turn around there is someone talking about knock down power.
Had one guy come to work and he had just got back from Afghanistan.
He made it plain he would not own a AR of any type and 9mm just **** people off when shot by one. Wth? Really
He is not the only one that I've talk with that believes that.

Now my belief is with today's ammo that you can have that stopping power.
I use Speer Gold Dot,Hornady's critical defense and Federal Premium HST.
I know there are other brands of self defense ammo but that is what I use.

So with my Glock and double the ammo capacity of most 45 pistols and with good ammo,I think
that I would have no problem with stopping power.

Not hating on 1911s just prefer the Glock 9s.
Any thoughts?
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:50 PM
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there's a lotta dumb people out there ...
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:00 PM
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Maybe he is a competition shooter. Where I shoot, the 9mm guys frequently struggle to knock the steel targets down. My .45 slams it the hell over like a mac truck. Anecdotal evidence, but entertain me.

I think 9mm is an awesome caliber, especially for concealed carry. However, my HK USP 45 holds 12 in the mag and one in the chamber. 13rounds standard. I prefer .45 in my full-sized hand guns where mag capacity is sufficient.

I know guys who shoot their 1911s in the 10 round single-stack class and absolutely annihilate myself and the hi-cap glock guys. Mag capci
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:08 PM
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Stopping power is what I'm talking about. Most guys I know just buy basic ammo.
My question really was do you think with today's self defense ammo available
That a 9mm round could perform just has good or better for stopping power against an assailant than a standard 45 ammo.
The standard stuff is all my friends use no matter what caliber.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:08 PM
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I prefer .45 and it's knock down power.
The round itself is the largest and slowest moving round there is. Hence when it hits it hits hard.

A friend who owns a gun range and is former military will not own a 9mm, in his opinion when you read about people, officers being shot numerous times, and live they were always shot with a 9mm. If it were a .45 they wouldn't be around to talk about it.

I carry a Glock 30s chambered in .45. 10 rounds in the mag and 1 in the chamber plus an extra mag on me at all times.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Delirious Nomad View Post
My question really was do you think with today's self defense ammo available
That a 9mm round could perform just has good or better for stopping power against an assailant than a standard 45 ammo.
The standard stuff is all my friends use no matter what caliber.
No I don't believe so, as I said in my previous post. .45 hits HARD
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:11 PM
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That's a funny question!

Ford or Chevy?

Bubbleyum or Bubbaliscous?

If only you knew what you just asked. It's personal choice nowadays. You and your son should get out in the back yard, set up a few different penetration test type targets, both of you loaded with the same quality ammo & do your own decision making. Don't take offense to my response but that's a never ending debate.
And Glock does make a .45 with a double stack mag, 15 or 17rd.
Yep, .45acp guy but I dang sure wouldn't wanna be hit with a 9mm either (I'm ticklish), lol.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:18 PM
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Unless you're going to be carrying something like 44mag out of a 4"+ barrel it doesn't really matter much. Basically all common handgun calibers suck at killing. Your best hope is to poke as many holes as fast as you responsibly can. In the same frame size, you are typically going to be able to have many more rounds of something in 9mm/.38 diameters than other larger sizes. My G19 is 15+1 while my CCO 1911 in 45 is only 7+1. They are both basically the same size/weight loaded, but the G19 is thicker. Is concealing that extra width worth it? Personally I would say yes 90% of the time. Most modern ammunition designed for self defense is pretty good stuff. There is very little difference in ultimate performance in any of the common calibers.

Carrying anything is better than nothing. Some people are fine carrying full frame 5" all steel handguns all day. Some people are fine carrying a 5-shot snubbie revolver. Everything between those choices is just fine too. Not everyone gets the same flavor ice cream....
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselD View Post
when you read about people, officers being shot numerous times, and live they were always shot with a 9mm.
Again, what type ammo? That's where the new defense ammo available comes in to the conversation
I remember watching "cocaine cowboys" documentary. The coroner for Dade county said the caliber didn't seem to matter as much as how many times a person was shot.
That stuck in my head.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delirious Nomad View Post
Any thoughts?
I carry either the Beretta 92FS 9mm or the XDM 5.25 .45 as my EDC.

I prefer the 92FS just from over a decade of muscle memory, but the XDM is more accurate by far.

As to knockdown power, the only time I have had to use my CCW just drawing the weapon neutralized the threat. Besides, with as many around as both carry . . . I have enough to stop the threat regardless.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:22 PM
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This is probably one of the most comprehensive reviews of modern self defense pistol ammunition.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...llistic-tests/
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by OneLostCowboy View Post
Attachment 145625

That's a funny question!

Ford or Chevy?

Bubbleyum or Bubbaliscous?

If only you knew what you just asked. It's personal choice nowadays. You and your son should get out in the back yard, set up a few different penetration test type targets, both of you loaded with the same quality ammo & do your own decision making. Don't take offense to my response but that's a never ending debate.
And Glock does make a .45 with a double stack mag, 15 or 17rd.
Yep, .45acp guy but I dang sure wouldn't wanna be hit with a 9mm either (I'm ticklish), lol.
Your right about that,seems to be a never ending debate :-)

Last edited by Delirious Nomad; 07-19-2016 at 03:58 PM.. Reason: reread post
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:28 PM
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I'll agree with the number of shots put into a target being more damaging. But hy would you want to have to shoot 4-5 times to do the damage of 1 shot.

The R.I.P. ammo for example does some serious damage, have shot it into a soft target.

But ammo like this is being looked at as possibly being a crime. As your intent was to do great bodily harm. Not that shooting someone is supposed to be like a big arm fuzzy hug.

I use hollow points in a +P for mass impact damage.

On soft targets the .45 did more damage than the 9mm and at some points swung the target considerably. These were hung pig 1/2's
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselD View Post
I'll agree with the number of shots put into a target being more damaging. But hy would you want to have to shoot 4-5 times to do the damage of 1 shot.

The R.I.P. ammo for example does some serious damage, have shot it into a soft target.

But ammo like this is being looked at as possibly being a crime. As your intent was to do great bodily harm. Not that shooting someone is supposed to be like a big arm fuzzy hug.

I use hollow points in a +P for mass impact damage.

On soft targets the .45 did more damage than the 9mm and at some points swung the target considerably. These were hung pig 1/2's
There isn't that big of a difference.

The FBI recently spent way too many of our tax dollars studying this very subject. You can read one of the reports here.

https://www.scribd.com/document/2525...-Effectiveness

To quote some of it...

With the exceptions of hits to the brain or upper spinal cord, the concept of reliable and reproducible immediate incapacitation of the human target by gunshot wounds to the torso is a myth.The human target is a complex and durable one. A wide variety of psychological, physical, and physiological factors exist, all of them pertinent to the probability of incapacitation. However, except for the location of the wound and the amount of tissue destroyed, none of the factors are within the control of the law enforcement officer.

Physiologically, a determined adversary can be stopped reliably and immediately only by a shot that disrupts the brain or upper spinal cord. Failing a hit to the central nervous system, massive bleeding from holes in the heart or major blood vessels of the torso causing circulatory collapse is the only other way to force incapacitation upon an adversary, and this takes time. For example, there is sufficient oxygen within the brain to support full, voluntary action for 10-15 seconds after the heart has been destroyed.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:38 PM
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Thanks, I have read that report and it is interesting.

But in my experience with shooting at soft targets, equal ammo I prefer the performance of the .45

But it is the choice of each individual what they prefer.
Many I know like the 9mm for it's lack of recoil,easier to return to the target.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselD View Post
Thanks, I have read that report and it is interesting.

But in my experience with shooting at soft targets, equal ammo I prefer the performance of the .45

But it is the choice of each individual what they prefer.
Many I know like the 9mm for it's lack of recoil,easier to return to the target.
I can put more rounds on target faster with 9mm and can carry more, but I also carry full size sidearms. As we see often, unless it is a nervous system shot . . . keep firing.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:45 PM
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I'll agree with the number of shots put into a target being more damaging. But why would you want to have to shoot 4-5 times to do the damage of 1 shot.
To address this specifically while leaving the caliber debate out of it....

What guarantee do you have that you will be able to score that ONE perfect hit in a high stress situation? I know everyone is a level 1000 super sniper and all. Taking caliber completely out of it, you are more likely to hit the target if you have more opportunities. More opportunities fit in the same frame size if you choose something slightly smaller.

The difference can be rather staggering over some of the common choices as I mentioned before. My CCO size 45 1911 is a 7+1 while my G19 is 15+1. That is a 100% increase in rounds available in basically the exact same form factor other than the G19 is about 3/16-1/4" thicker in the frame. Every reload also has the same built in bonus. I would have to reload 2x as often.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delirious Nomad View Post
The thread is about TODAYS AMMO

I guess you miss that when you were thinking about Chevy and fords
OR did "YOU MISS" where I said father & son should both load "QUALITY AMMO" & do some testing to make up there own minds?

Did ya, did ya miss that while you were thinking up your sarcastic comment? You must be a dodge guy?
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselD View Post
Thanks, I have read that report and it is interesting.

But in my experience with shooting at soft targets, equal ammo I prefer the performance of the .45

But it is the choice of each individual what they prefer.
Many I know like the 9mm for it's lack of recoil,easier to return to the target.
Do whatever makes you feel comfortable....

I carried a 1911 for years and years. I personally made the decision after much research, that with the more common occurrence of this mob-violence with possible multiple attackers, that I wanted more rounds available. For me, I was able to double ( or quadruple with the same amount of spare mags ) my round count with what I researched to be very little if any decrease in actual ballistic performance.
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:50 PM
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The difference can be rather staggering over some of the common choices as I mentioned before. My CCO size 45 1911 is a 7+1 while my G19 is 15+1. That is a 100% increase in rounds available in basically the exact same form factor other than the G19 is about 3/16-1/4" thicker in the frame. Every reload also has the same built in bonus. I would have to reload 2x as often.
Part of my purchase of my XDM was the round count. I know how crazy a situation can be and would rather have the extra rounds than not.
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