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Self defense 12 gauge shell deprogramming services Firearms General Discussion 44 10-11-2016 09:46 AM

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Old 10-01-2016, 09:20 PM
DiscoverTheWorld DiscoverTheWorld is offline
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Default Bear defense gun opinions



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With black bears becoming more prominent and moving further south in my state, I'm Looking for a gun to carry when I'm out in the woods hiking/backpacking and when I go up north, I would like something on a sling/hip to help protect myself when I am out hiking in case I come across mama bear and her cubs.

I am thinking a 12ga shotgun loaded with 1) birdshot 2) buckshot 3) rest of the tube filled with solid steel slugs. My thinking is that if it's a bluff charge the birdshot will deter the bear, if not blind it followed by the buckshot for more disabling/stopping power followed up with nothing but solid steel slugs. Shotgun would be a 18.5" barrel, cylinder bore, preferably outfitted with a modified combo pistol/shoulder stock. This may be a bit bulky, attract too much attention depending on just how deep into the woods or far north I go.

My other alternative would be a S&W 69 44 magnum, 4.25" barrel. I am thinking this would a good option for carrying where it's semi rural, more likely to freak some folks out. Good for hiking since it wouldn't interfere with a pack, and I could carry OWB underneath my shirt (semi concealed, but quick access) or in a cross body chest rig that hangs underneath my weak side arm (sort of hidden underneath the shoulder strap of my pack).

Which would you carry? I will eventually own both of these guns, shotgun before the 44, but I am wondering which would be better for carry given the option of both.
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Old 10-01-2016, 09:29 PM
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Old 10-01-2016, 09:38 PM
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Go 44 magnum. Shotgun would stand out too much, just make sure you have good shot placement when you are in a panic mode when mama bear is charging at you.
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Old 10-01-2016, 09:49 PM
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One of my best friends in Alaska carries his 870 AOW 12g with 00 buckshot. That bear can cover distance quicker than you know so the idea is to have a quick handling firearm with the reasonable power/spread of the buckshot.
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Old 10-01-2016, 09:50 PM
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If you decide shotgun, stay with slugs and nothing else
if you are in a self defense situation, you want to stop the charge ASAP
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Old 10-01-2016, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoverTheWorld View Post
With black bears becoming more prominent and moving further south in my state, I'm Looking for a gun to carry when I'm out in the woods hiking/backpacking and when I go up north, I would like something on a sling/hip to help protect myself when I am out hiking in case I come across mama bear and her cubs.

I am thinking a 12ga shotgun loaded with 1) birdshot 2) buckshot 3) rest of the tube filled with solid steel slugs. My thinking is that if it's a bluff charge the birdshot will deter the bear, if not blind it followed by the buckshot for more disabling/stopping power followed up with nothing but solid steel slugs. Shotgun would be a 18.5" barrel, cylinder bore, preferably outfitted with a modified combo pistol/shoulder stock. This may be a bit bulky, attract too much attention depending on just how deep into the woods or far north I go.

My other alternative would be a S&W 69 44 magnum, 4.25" barrel. I am thinking this would a good option for carrying where it's semi rural, more likely to freak some folks out. Good for hiking since it wouldn't interfere with a pack, and I could carry OWB underneath my shirt (semi concealed, but quick access) or in a cross body chest rig that hangs underneath my weak side arm (sort of hidden underneath the shoulder strap of my pack).

Which would you carry? I will eventually own both of these guns, shotgun before the 44, but I am wondering which would be better for carry given the option of both.
How about you invest in a can of bear spray.....
From your post....it's obvious you have no experience with black bears.
You gonna shoot it first with bird shot? Trying to blind it. Then you think you gonna squeeze off a second shot with buck shot....and then follow up with slugs.....
Hmmmm..... Doubt all that will happen.
Here is how it will probably go down....
Bear charges at you ....you try to shoot....miss...he is moving at about 25 to 30 mph...before you can fire again. He in on top of you....tearing you to pieces.
A couple days later a couple hikers find what is left of you next to a pile of bear scat.....
Carry spray.....
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Old 10-01-2016, 11:13 PM
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Bear are fast and you had better have your head on a swivel. If you blunder your way into the gap between a sow and her cubs you'll regret the bird shot. In a defensive situation shoot to kill the first time every time. Ultimately shot placement it the most important factor, Bella Twin proved that in 1953.

That's my thought process and it lead me to think I'd want the shortest lightest 12 gauge pump I could keep handy, loaded with 00 or 000. But personally I'm not all that worried about bears, I rarely hunt or hike alone. So I just need to be able to run faster than you. And I know a Mare's leg loaded in .357 Mag will stop you in your tracks.


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Old 10-01-2016, 11:22 PM
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I'd suggest an eargerschplittinloudenboomer myself - in stainless
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Old 10-02-2016, 12:59 AM
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I'd suggest an eargerschplittinloudenboomer myself - in stainless
Do they sell those at Bass Pro Shop?
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Old 10-02-2016, 01:21 AM
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Old 10-02-2016, 04:56 AM
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I carried a Ruger Super Blackhawk with Ace Dube 328 grain rounds in it. If you can handle the recoil and get off a second shot, count yourself lucky.

Most guides I knew in Alaska carried Remi 870 with slugs all the way.

The key is to get a shot into each shoulder so it'll stand up and then fill her chest cavity with what you have left.

When I was stationed at Eielson in Fairbanks, we had a squadron safety officer in the next cubicle over. He was talking to a new guy that wanted to know if a 9mm pistol would work. My buddy told him to file the front site off. The newbie said "Is that to draw the gun faster and get shots off quicker. My buddy told him "No, that's so it doesn't hurt so much when he shoves that pistol up your arse." Dang near ****ed myself.

A lot of people wear bells so they don't surprise the bears. With that being the case, it helps to learn what type of bear scat you're finding in the area. Black bear scat and be easily identified and distinguished from Grizzly because the Grizzly scat will have little pieces of brass in it's scat.

Just make noise when going thru the brush so as not to surprise the bears. Last but not least, do NOT get between momma bear and her cubs. There aren't many guns that will stop her from protecting them. Moose are the same way. The cows are super protective of their cubs and she will literally stomp you with a front hoof punching you in the chest to drop you and then river dancing on your body.

Last but not least, always save one round for your buddy's kneecap.
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Old 10-02-2016, 05:28 AM
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Black bears are not notorious for being aggressive and if you are making even a little noise they will more than likely give you a wide enough berth you will never see one. That being said, I would highly recommend you do not use bird shot for defense against anything other than birds if for whatever reason they decide to attack you. Should a bear be surprised by your arrival or protecting its young from you, you may not have very much opportunity to use your weapon and the time it takes to unsling and shoulder it might be all you get. Bears can move very fast when they need to. You can use a slug as a warning shot if you wish and it will make plenty of noise. There exists no reason I can fathom for you to need that first round to be non-lethal.

A 12 gauge loaded entirely with standard 1 oz slugs or 000 buckshot is what I carry in the woods. Plenty for black bear.
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Old 10-02-2016, 05:38 AM
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https://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...ht=guide+45+70

45 long colt +P
44 mag
45-70 government
12 ga with slugs.
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Old 10-02-2016, 07:59 AM
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Alaska State Troopers like the 12g with Brenneke slugs.
NO bird shot. I carry the same way. The large caliber
handguns are very useful for fly fishing.
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:12 AM
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The black bears, just like the rattle snakes, don't want anything to do with you. They are afraid of us more than we are afraid of them. Don't sneak up on them, and you may live a long and happy life.

However, when in doubt, a 12 gauge slug is usually the answer.
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:13 AM
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Default Buckshot for sure

I heard about a guy that had to shoot a charging 350 lb. black bear early one morning from a prone position as the bear ran down a hill towards a tent the guy was in, while roaring like nothing ever heard before.

The guy had a 30-30 lever and emptied it into (and around) the bear as it came roaring down from about 20 yards. Because it was charging from a hill and the shooter was prone, one bullet hit the bear in the center traveling up and severed the spine about halfway back.

The bear continued to "swim" towards the tent while roaring and thrashing with everything it had, until the guy reloaded the 30-30 and placing a finishing shot or two into the bear. The finishing shots were much easier because the bear was about 6 feet from the tent and had stopped forward progress.

The guy was an excellent shot and very familiar with the gun, having killed many animals with it.

This was a male bear in the spring, very scruffy and probably hungry from his long winter nap. Just a little pup compared to many others.

A 12 gauge loaded with buck shot would have been a better choice. The idea that anyone can pull off the shot placement needed to stop something that big and fast once it committed with a single projectile seems more like luck than skill.

With big buckshot, and lots of it, it would seem more of a lead curtain would be a better idea than trying for the vital killing shot placement from a single projectile to put a bear down in an instant. Once a bear gets that close, buckshot is virtually a slug anyway.

A .375 H&H would have done no better unless you could identify, track and precisely hit the target, buckshot (and lots of it) may improve the shooters odds.

I am sure the bear would have probably just bluff charged or been deterred with a whistle or some bear spray, he looked like he was going to turn his life around. Some people said he had his hands up when he was shot.

Bears are our friends, they wish you no harm, you are trespassing into their home. I think playing dead always works, if you can't play a bear flute or ring a bell or something like that.

Once in a while stuff needs to be shot.
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carne Frio View Post
Alaska State Troopers like the 12g with Brenneke slugs.
NO bird shot. I carry the same way. The large caliber
handguns are very useful for fly fishing.
This! Alaska Troopers encounter bears more than any other LEO agency. Learn from their experience.
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:23 AM
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Where did you find those solid steel slugs?
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Old 10-02-2016, 09:02 AM
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Used to do a lot of backpacking in the California wilderness. Carried a 4&5/8 barrel Ruger Blackhawk 45 colt attached to the outside of the pack in a full flap holster. Easy access.

At the time the Super Blackhawk in 44 mag was not available in a 4&5/8 barrel. Now they are available.

Stainless would be the preferred finish as wet weather is always a problem for guns.

44 mag is quite adequate for black bear defense, and a pistol is much more practical than even a pistol grip shotgun.

Now grizzly bears ... that's another story.
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Old 10-02-2016, 09:23 AM
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I lived in a high black bear population area for a good while. When you are out and you see them constantly you won't be asking questions or even thinking twice about carrying a 12 gauge with the heavier brenneke slugs.

I've seen bear spray "used" before. The loud hissing sound it makes scares the bear more and you better pray to every god out there with you that the wind isn't blowing into your face when you need to scare it with the hissing sound. I don't think too many people have used it, or seen it used. Standing there with your arms in the air yelling stops a charge just as good as a hissing can of pepper that's blown back into your face. The stuff is strong!
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