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Old 09-23-2016, 11:21 AM
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Default Tough 22lr semi-auto rifle



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Hey there, I really enjoy shooting hyper velocity ammunition, such as Aguila Interceptor.
After putting a few thousand rounds through my 10/22, I can honestly say that I can't see any visible signs of wear and tear. Granted, prior to shooting hyper velocity ammo, I have replaced the metal bolt buffer with the Kidd's bolt buffer. By the way, I highly recommend doing this regardless of the ammo you use.
I guess my question is whether this set up is as good as it gets, or is there a tougher 22lr semi-auto rifle that can handle a sizable amount of the hyper velocity ammunition.
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:48 AM
The Old Coach The Old Coach is offline
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Red herring. Annie Oakley put over 100,000 rounds through a Marlin 39, and that was back before WW1, using that horrible grease-lubed semi-smokeless ammo.

The .22LR doesn't stress a rifle much. Even that "hyper-velocity" ammunition. (The pressure is about the same.) A Marlin 60, or a Nylon 66, or any of the better American made semi-autos will last as long or longer than a Ruger, without modification.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:02 PM
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Red herring. Annie Oakley put over 100,000 rounds through a Marlin 39, and that was back before WW1, using that horrible grease-lubed semi-smokeless ammo.

The .22LR doesn't stress a rifle much. Even that "hyper-velocity" ammunition. (The pressure is about the same.) A Marlin 60, or a Nylon 66, or any of the better American made semi-autos will last as long or longer than a Ruger, without modification.
I don't know about that. A lot of ammo manufacturers tend to recommend their higher velocity types to be used in bolt action rifles rather then semi-autos. There must be good reason for that.

Besides, you can't be serious comparing modern ammunition to pre-WW1 ammunition. I am not an expert, but I am pretty sure that modern ammunition is way more powerful today than it was 100+ years ago.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:08 PM
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I don't know about that. A lot of ammo manufacturers tend to recommend their higher velocity types to be used in bolt action rifles rather then semi-autos. There must be good reason for that.
There is. It makes their ammo sound "better" to those with no clue.
It also gives them an "out" if the gun won't cycle their ammo well.

I collect .22's, I have several semi auto .22's made in the 1940's by several manufacturers, and they all still run just fine. Maybe they haven't seen much high velocity ammo...but they have seen a LOT of ammo.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:14 PM
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I don't know about that. A lot of ammo manufacturers tend to recommend their higher velocity types to be used in bolt action rifles rather then semi-autos. There must be good reason for that.

Besides, you can't be serious comparing modern ammunition to pre-WW1 ammunition. I am not an expert, but I am pretty sure that modern ammunition is way more powerful today than it was 100+ years ago.
modern ammunition may be more powerful than it was 100+ years ago, but so is metallurgy and better manufacturing processes of things like bolts and barrels, theres nothing in the world of physics that would suggest hotter ammunition is dangerous in a semi automatic so long as theres still enough mass in the bolt to delay rearward movement of the bolt long enough for the bullet to leave the barrel and the buffer spring is slow enough to slow that bolt down before it smacks into the back of the receiver too hard
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:26 PM
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So, you are all saying that it's fine to use any hyper velocity ammunition in any rifle as much as you want?
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:01 PM
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So, you are all saying that it's fine to use any hyper velocity ammunition in any rifle as much as you want?
No, you are confusing things, a little, I think.

"Hyper" velocity ( as in your question) isn't the same as "higher" velocity (as in your post about ammo maker's recommendations)) and "hyper" or "higher" velocity isn't a standard anyway.

No one said it's fine, we just said it's not that big a deal. You are shooting a round that is about 24,000 psi Max, regardless of the velocity; and most of the high velocity rounds get there not by increasing pressure, but by using lighter bullets.

Some guns are made cheaply...old or new. They won't last as long with a steady diet of hyper or even higher velocity ammo, and SOME makers tell you so in their manuals. Some pistols are WELL KNOWN to suffer frame cracking with high velocity ammo. But rifles aren't usually in that same category, and many, or most, will show no ill effects from using lots of faster ammo.


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Besides, you can't be serious comparing modern ammunition to pre-WW1 ammunition. I am not an expert, but I am pretty sure that modern ammunition is way more powerful today than it was 100+ years ago.
Actually, it's well known that MANY present day loads are reduced compared to what we used to see. Lawyer loads, we usually call them. But almost all of the old military ammo was hotter than the typical commercial load of today, while the .22LR is nearly unchanged; that's the very reason for the high and hyper velocity ammo to exist.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Flex View Post
I don't know about that. A lot of ammo manufacturers tend to recommend their higher velocity types to be used in bolt action rifles rather then semi-autos. There must be good reason for that.

Besides, you can't be serious comparing modern ammunition to pre-WW1 ammunition. I am not an expert, but I am pretty sure that modern ammunition is way more powerful today than it was 100+ years ago.

Actually in alot of cases (.38 special comes to mind)
With the exception of speciality ammo the power has been DECREASED due to lawyers and the concern of dumbass loading ammo into old and barely functional weapons.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:14 PM
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Hey ajole, thank you for your reply. But I do known the difference between hyper velocity and high velocity. Not sure what caused the confusion.

My original question was and still stands if the there is another rifle other than 10/22 that can use a steady diet of Hyper velocity ammunition.

PS when I say hyper velocity I basically repeat what the manufacturers print on their boxes. They usually mark them as such when the velocity exceeds 1400fps
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:26 PM
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Hey ajole, thank you for your reply. But I do known the difference between hyper velocity and high velocity. Not sure what caused the confusion.

My original question was and still stands if the there is another rifle other than 10/22 that can use a steady diet of Hyper velocity ammunition.
I think I took your two posts and conflated them...I edited my post...

As to the actual question...yes, I think ALL of the basic standard .22's will handle hyper velocity over time with no issues.

You MIGHT see some problems with the Savage 64, it has a guide rod that is pressed in, IIRC, and I'm not sure it will last under a steady diet of faster ammo. The Marlins and Mossbergs are very similar to the Ruger, and should have no issues.

Of course, the newest stuff, like the Mossberg Blaze and the S&W with the polymer receivers are a question mark. I have no idea if they will last with hyper velocity over time, but it could be fun to find out.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:33 PM
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I think I took your two posts and conflated them...I edited my post...

As to the actual question...yes, I think ALL of the basic standard .22's will handle hyper velocity over time with no issues.

You MIGHT see some problems with the Savage 64, it has a guide rod that is pressed in, IIRC, and I'm not sure it will last under a steady diet of faster ammo. The Marlins and Mossbergs are very similar to the Ruger, and should have no issues.

Of course, the newest stuff, like the Mossberg Blaze and the S&W with the polymer receivers are a question mark. I have no idea if they will last with hyper velocity over time, but it could be fun to find out.
I guess I am using my 10/22 as a lab rat. The time will tell, but so far it has at least 5000 rounds of Agila interceptor and Winchester hyper velocity rounds. Both are 40gr and both are over 1400fps, according to the specs.
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:09 PM
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Actually, it's well known that MANY present day loads are reduced compared to what we used to see. Lawyer loads, we usually call them.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. I have reloading books starting in 1964 up to recent years. I've noticed the same cartridge, bullet weight/type, same powder has dropped in load specs over the years, even when comparing the same reloading publisher.
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Flex View Post
Besides, you can't be serious comparing modern ammunition to pre-WW1 ammunition. I am not an expert, but I am pretty sure that modern ammunition is way more powerful today than it was 100+ years ago.
Yes, I am serious. .22 Long Rifle ammo back then was about the same as standard velocity is today, so modern HV is more powerful, but not that much. But ammo 100 years ago was far harder on the gun. It was lubed with grease, not the modern wax, so it tended to pick up grit and carry it through the bore. Semi-smokeless powder was corrosive, so rust was endemic. (She may actually have shot a lot of those rounds using cartridges that were 100% Holy Black.) The cases were copper, not brass, too.

.22 ammo is pressure-limited by the weakness of the brass in the fold at the rim. That's why these hyper cartridges all have a much lighter bullet. That's how they get the velocity. If the pressure were much higher, they'd pop rims left and right.

BTW there's a real problem with those hyper rounds when fired in "Bentz" chambers as commonly supplied in aftermarket "target" barrels for those Rugers. The hyper cartridge brass is longer than standard, and it gets jammed into the tapered chamber throat, leading to exaggerated pressure and burst rims. This would be more of a problem with blowback semi-autos, so I could kinda see some mfg. recommending bolt guns. They'll at least stay locked while the blowout dissipates.
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:27 PM
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Actually, it's well known that MANY present day loads are reduced compared to what we used to see. Lawyer loads, we usually call them.
Um, we are talking about .22 rimfire here. No reloading data. Although I know some members of our association (ASSRA) are pulling bullets from live ammo and replacing the smokeless with black. This recreates the old time cartridges, although I myself wonder why. Somewhere there's actually a competition class for this, I guess.
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:42 PM
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Of course, the newest stuff, like the Mossberg Blaze and the S&W with the polymer receivers are a question mark. I have no idea if they will last with hyper velocity over time, but it could be fun to find out.
Plastic receivers. What is the world coming to? I thought aluminum was as bad as it would ever get.
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Old 09-23-2016, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
Um, we are talking about .22 rimfire here. No reloading data. Although I know some members of our association (ASSRA) are pulling bullets from live ammo and replacing the smokeless with black. This recreates the old time cartridges, although I myself wonder why. Somewhere there's actually a competition class for this, I guess.
The context of the quote "MANY present day loads" and "old military ammo" led me to believe the topic being discussed was loads being reduced over time regardless if it was military, commercial or reloads.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:48 PM
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i try not to shoot Winchester rimfire ammo. It always seems low quality. I would love to try some Aguila ammo. But never see it on the shelves round here. by the way i have a couple Marlin model 60. Love them except the dam bolt and spring, I hate trying to get them back in after cleaning.
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