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Old 04-13-2019, 11:38 AM
Optimist Optimist is offline
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Want to avoid an urban sniper? Move around an urban area, bypass the city. Why go through a deadly kill zone when you can move around it?
Because the shooters on the rural kill zones are a sight more likely to be competent?
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Old 04-13-2019, 12:24 PM
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Reason I asked swamp was I was one of those " Useless and corrupt" New Orleans policemen then and was at children's hospital and not only did I not receive fire from a "sniper". Children's hospital didn't flood, in fact it had fully operational back up power in place they only evacuated due to loss of water pressure and that evacuation was orderly and without incident. Patients were air evacuated to Texas and other places staff and families left in cars. At no time was there any snipers or " military" guys. And as for his view of the NOPD and it's officers like any profession there are bad employees. But to the thousands the rest of us assisted in rescuing using our personal boats I dare say they view us as not so useless.

The words of another that was there. While there were incidents and bad things that happened most have been embellished for various reasons or to fit a narrative.

http://sm.stanford.edu/archive/stanm...ina-diary.html
that was the only reference to "hospital + sniper + katrina
stories grow
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Old 04-13-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quadcopter drone with a good steady video feed. Buzz the suspected areas. Find the sniper. After that, the answer is easy.

If you have enough tech savvy, you could also rig up a triangulating microphone array, connected to a computer to give a good indication of where a single shot came from. Silicon wafers don't get bored.
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Old 04-13-2019, 03:38 PM
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Any documentation to support this story?
Perhaps this is the story babyblue is referring to....

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/0...per/index.html
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:40 PM
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Move slow use obstacles has cover and concealment , bino's are a must and have scoped rifle just in case , move during storms and at night if possible , avoid built up urban areas etc. if its got your name on it their is really nothing one can do about it. JMHO and S/FI!
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Old 04-13-2019, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
Quadcopter drone with a good steady video feed. Buzz the suspected areas. Find the sniper. After that, the answer is easy.

If you have enough tech savvy, you could also rig up a triangulating microphone array, connected to a computer to give a good indication of where a single shot came from. Silicon wafers don't get bored.
This is likely the most effective method for survivalists. I'm planning on getting drone this next year. For an urban area, this is the best idea to recon the area without exposing yourself or anyone with you. It's not necessarily fool proof, but it's the safest recon method for the cost-value...

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Old 04-13-2019, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
The "military professional" could have easily been a SWAT sniper. "Military professional" adds a nice spin to the story though.

The average shot for a SWAT "sniper"/wacker is less than 100yd. A SWAT marksman.

A Sniper is a very specific tactical concept/mission.
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
Quadcopter drone with a good steady video feed. Buzz the suspected areas. Find the sniper. After that, the answer is easy.

If you have enough tech savvy, you could also rig up a triangulating microphone array, connected to a computer to give a good indication of where a single shot came from. Silicon wafers don't get bored.

Shotspotter? DOJ blew millions on this nonsense during the Obumer years. Put it all oer Chiraq. Does not work. A fraud of the 1st order.
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:32 PM
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IMO, by the time you realize that there is a sniper in the area, chances are you, or someone nearby you, would be dead. If you survive you probably won't stick around long enough to figure their location out.

There is a reason to fear them. And there is a reason why the Military utilizes them.

Unless the urban sniper has unlimited resources at their disposal, chances are they are targeting folks with some value (so look less valuable) or just a sick deranged MoFo (worst case scenario).
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:38 PM
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Shotspotter? DOJ blew millions on this nonsense during the Obumer years. Put it all oer Chiraq. Does not work. A fraud of the 1st order.
The theory is quite sound. How do you determine direction from sound with your ears?

Certainly this can be replicated with microphones and precision timers applied to time of sound reception on the various microphones.

But if you screw something up in the execution, then of course it won't work.
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Old 04-14-2019, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
Shotspotter? DOJ blew millions on this nonsense during the Obumer years. Put it all oer Chiraq. Does not work. A fraud of the 1st order.
Not sure what the application was, but there are several simple drones that have decent flight time and range with excellent cameras that give live feeds to a smart phone via wifi-fi signal. Saw a police demo and they can use high altitude where they can't be seen or heard, yet provide quite impressive video and images.

Again, the goal is to recon first, before getting the sniper's attention. I still see the drone as a force multiplier and excellent tool in the tool box for countering snipers or just reconnoitering and/or bypassing an area completely.

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Old 04-14-2019, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
Not sure what the application was, but there are several simple drones that have decent flight time and range with excellent cameras that give live feeds to a smart phone via wifi-fi signal. Saw a police demo and they can use high altitude where they can't be seen or heard, yet provide quite impressive video and images.

Again, the goal is to recon first, before getting the sniper's attention. I still see the drone as a force multiplier and excellent tool in the tool box for countering snipers or just reconnoitering and/or bypassing an area completely.

ROCK6
I mentioned 2 ideas. Shotspotter was the 2nd one. Simply some microphones slaved to a timing computer that triangulate gunshot sounds to estimate the point of origin. First I heard of the idea was when they were trying it out in NYC somewhere.
I can see where echos would be a difficulty in a big city.
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Old 04-14-2019, 05:45 PM
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As a civilian I am good to about 400 yards. And that is because my eyes are screwy now. A sniper will be most likely employed as a scout/ recon, eliminate high value targets, provide area denial. The first one is what most snipers do. Bypass is the best option.
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:10 PM
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I believe it comes down to pre-planning, pre-prepping, tactics, and active responses.

1) If possible, the area in question should be scouted thoroughly, by someone with knowledge (and experience if possible) to look for suitable sniper sites overlooking the preferred area of occupation.

2) Once the area is scouted, it should be determined if anti-sniping steps can be taken effectively within the resource limits of the group. If not then a different location must be chosen.

3) If it is decided to stay at that location, all likely sniper positions should be either eliminated, blocked, controlled, or pre-targeted.

4) Any important equipment, gear, and supplies that are vulnerable to anti-material sniping will need to be protected with some type of armor or be put in protected locations.

5) As part of the already necessary over-watch activities should be a sniper awareness and watch method. If there are times when there will not be any available targets for a sniper, then security can go down to normal security procedures set up to ensure that they will not be sniper targets.

6) If normal security measures, including any patrols, give any indication that a sniper might be approaching, in the area, or setting up, the immediate reaction team should activate and take appropriate steps to eliminate the sniper before he/she can get positioned.

7) If a sniper does manage to set up and get a round off, hopefully, it will be at one of the fire-drawing targets set up to get a sniper to fire without risking anyone so it will alert everyone that a sniper is around and for them to take hard cover. If properly designed, the target will give at least a good indication of the trajectory of the round.

In any case, anti-sniper actions should begin. Again hopefully, a sound triangulation system will be active and pinpoint the sniper fairly closely and counter-sniper fire can be directed to the location to keep the sniper pinned down if he/she cannot be eliminated by direct fire. The immediate reaction team should activate and take the appropriate steps to eliminate the sniper.

8) Any area where people must be, and there is the slightest chance of snipers, everyone should learn sniper attack tactics, with the appropriate equipment being placed beforehand. Either 360 degree hard cover shelters, or directional shelters if there are limited directions from which sniper fire can come, should be in place for use by everyone in the exposed area if there is not sufficient hard cover within a few steps.

Any tasks which require being in a stationary position should be protected if at all possible. If this is not possible, a very active overwatch and direct watch should be happening so if a sniper does expose himself/herself, or does take a shot, there will be a high likelihood of the sniper being located immediately.

Otherwise, anyone in the exposed area should be moving. As randomly as possible, without using regular established routes that a sniper can target and simply wait for someone to enter the target area.

Include jukes, sudden reversals, side steps, and varied pace to make it much more difficult for a sniper to predict where a person will be during the next second or so. Simple weaving is not adequate with the equipment and training modern snipers can have. That probably will not be a problem, as it is much more likely the sniper will be a hunter picked for their shooting ability. They likely will not have much, if any real sniper training. Better safe than sorry, however.

Those tasked with watching for snipers should have heat sensitive optics if at all possible, and definitely trained in spotting camouflaged figures, including ghillie suit camouflage and camouflage tactics that change or obscure a person's silhouette, which is often more effective than actual pattern and texture camouflage.

The use of stationary and drone mounted surveilance can be a huge force multiplier to the group. Include audio as well, if at all possible, especially for cameras that would be within range of audio, and for drones that will often be used at ranges that the potential attacker will not believe they can be heard, even if seen. Audio clues can give enough information to locate a targe visually.

If cameras cannot be risked, do use microphones, a much cheaper alternative. If one or two sniper locations are left untouched to lure a sniper looking for a spot into those rather than other locations the use of an audio device that would be nearly impossible to locate if it was not being looked for, can give warning of someone taking up position. And appropriate measures can then be taken.

There are many more possibilities for sniper and counter-sniper activities available online for many different types of situations that these general ideas will not be the best solution, so do your own due diligence research. You life and the life of your family, friends, and group may depend on it.

Just my opinion.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:09 AM
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Firstly we need to consider what the objective of our shtf sniper is. Is he providing overwatch for his friends or camp? Hoping to provide for himself by targeting those with valuable looking equipment? A military sniper used for area denial? A raider looking to clear a camp to steal its supplies? etc.

If the sniper is just in his/her hide waiting for prey to pass, they will likely be observing as high traffic areas as possible, such as a main road, highway or a river. They will likely be working solo or in small groups. They likely will not have unlimited supplies. This has a few interesting conatations. Firstly it is unlikely that they will randomly set up in the middle of nowhere, as it would be unlikely to be worth their effort to provide continual overwatch of the area. They also have to eat and sleep, and even if they have thermals and night vision, continuous use does go through batteries pretty fast, and isn't normally anywhere as useful as games and Hollywood would make you believe. So what does this mean?

If you must move during shtf, try to avoid main roads or public/busy areas. Take backalleys, walk through the scrub instead of on the track. If possible, try to move through dangerous areas at night to make it hard to spot you. If you are really worried, traverse dangerous areas during twilight as it make it hard for people to see you with their eyes and it has too much ambient light for most night vision to work properly.

Next scenario is the raider sniper. Here similar rules apply. Try to stay indoors during the day and avoid exposing yourself through windows and doors. Give your sentries a safe area such as trench or sandbagged bunker to hide in. Provide periscopes if you deem it necessary. Reduce or remove the available sniper locations around you that could provide cover to an adversary. This realistically just needs to be removing small trees and fallen logs to open ground. Have all members of your group assess where could be used if they were to attack as the camp and try to reduce or eliminate these areas.

But the most important thing is to reduce movement outdoors during the day if you suspect enemy snipers are in the area.

How to counter enemy snipers? Best way is with another sniper. Therefore, teach your people to hunt, and rudamentry sniper tactics. Keep asking them, "if you had to...", this will help train them to a degree of usefulness and make your group better at responding to events if they ever unfold.


Hope this wall of text helps or entertained someone.
K
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:21 AM
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Unimog-- meant no disrespect at all to the NO police who honored their oath and did their best to do their job. There were many, thank the Lord. But we all know there were too many who didn't. And I'm not talking about those who were honest and hardworking, but decided their families and babies needed them. It's a hard decision to leave your loved ones in a disaster.

I watched on ordinary TV news shows as uniformed police broke into pawn shops and jewellery stores, and there was one bunch who moved into a local hotel and forced the staff there to wait on them and keep evryone else out. When CNN came knocking on the door the police left in cruisers so loaded down with stolen crap the back ends were nearly dragging. The city wound through four chiefs in less weeks trying to find someone either not corrupt, or willing to wade through the mess.

To every one of you who held to your oaths I give respect, and I wish your city fathers had given you better brothers.
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry D Young View Post
I believe it comes down to pre-planning, pre-prepping, tactics, and active responses.

1) If possible, the area in question should be scouted thoroughly, by someone with knowledge (and experience if possible) to look for suitable sniper sites overlooking the preferred area of occupation.

2) Once the area is scouted, it should be determined if anti-sniping steps can be taken effectively within the resource limits of the group. If not then a different location must be chosen.

3) If it is decided to stay at that location, all likely sniper positions should be either eliminated, blocked, controlled, or pre-targeted.

4) Any important equipment, gear, and supplies that are vulnerable to anti-material sniping will need to be protected with some type of armor or be put in protected locations.

5) As part of the already necessary over-watch activities should be a sniper awareness and watch method. If there are times when there will not be any available targets for a sniper, then security can go down to normal security procedures set up to ensure that they will not be sniper targets.

6) If normal security measures, including any patrols, give any indication that a sniper might be approaching, in the area, or setting up, the immediate reaction team should activate and take appropriate steps to eliminate the sniper before he/she can get positioned.

7) If a sniper does manage to set up and get a round off, hopefully, it will be at one of the fire-drawing targets set up to get a sniper to fire without risking anyone so it will alert everyone that a sniper is around and for them to take hard cover. If properly designed, the target will give at least a good indication of the trajectory of the round.

In any case, anti-sniper actions should begin. Again hopefully, a sound triangulation system will be active and pinpoint the sniper fairly closely and counter-sniper fire can be directed to the location to keep the sniper pinned down if he/she cannot be eliminated by direct fire. The immediate reaction team should activate and take the appropriate steps to eliminate the sniper.

8) Any area where people must be, and there is the slightest chance of snipers, everyone should learn sniper attack tactics, with the appropriate equipment being placed beforehand. Either 360 degree hard cover shelters, or directional shelters if there are limited directions from which sniper fire can come, should be in place for use by everyone in the exposed area if there is not sufficient hard cover within a few steps.

Any tasks which require being in a stationary position should be protected if at all possible. If this is not possible, a very active overwatch and direct watch should be happening so if a sniper does expose himself/herself, or does take a shot, there will be a high likelihood of the sniper being located immediately.

Otherwise, anyone in the exposed area should be moving. As randomly as possible, without using regular established routes that a sniper can target and simply wait for someone to enter the target area.

Include jukes, sudden reversals, side steps, and varied pace to make it much more difficult for a sniper to predict where a person will be during the next second or so. Simple weaving is not adequate with the equipment and training modern snipers can have. That probably will not be a problem, as it is much more likely the sniper will be a hunter picked for their shooting ability. They likely will not have much, if any real sniper training. Better safe than sorry, however.

Those tasked with watching for snipers should have heat sensitive optics if at all possible, and definitely trained in spotting camouflaged figures, including ghillie suit camouflage and camouflage tactics that change or obscure a person's silhouette, which is often more effective than actual pattern and texture camouflage.

The use of stationary and drone mounted surveilance can be a huge force multiplier to the group. Include audio as well, if at all possible, especially for cameras that would be within range of audio, and for drones that will often be used at ranges that the potential attacker will not believe they can be heard, even if seen. Audio clues can give enough information to locate a targe visually.

If cameras cannot be risked, do use microphones, a much cheaper alternative. If one or two sniper locations are left untouched to lure a sniper looking for a spot into those rather than other locations the use of an audio device that would be nearly impossible to locate if it was not being looked for, can give warning of someone taking up position. And appropriate measures can then be taken.

There are many more possibilities for sniper and counter-sniper activities available online for many different types of situations that these general ideas will not be the best solution, so do your own due diligence research. You life and the life of your family, friends, and group may depend on it.

Just my opinion.
Yeah.....question is if you have that dream team and equipment....why are you messing around in a large city.

People cant even pin point a direction of a mass shooter in a building much less a single shot sniper.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Killzo View Post
Firstly we need to consider what the objective of our shtf sniper is. Is he providing overwatch for his friends or camp? Hoping to provide for himself by targeting those with valuable looking equipment? A military sniper used for area denial? A raider looking to clear a camp to steal its supplies? etc.
K
Not to trivialize the threat but even your average deer hunters are rarely accurate between 50-100 meters. I do think most sniper threats will simply be some degenerate looking to score some kit; they are likely not trained nor are they going to be very accurate with a long gun. More importantly, they will likely have a poor hide and lack noise, light, and movement discipline. If you have to navigate through an area with a high threat probability, patience, observation, recon (drone aerial recon), and maximizing cover with movements will be the best COA. Unless your mission is to neutralize and counter a sniper, I'll stick with the evacuating the area if one is encountered. Again, I don't want to underestimate the threat, but when we talk "sniper", I don't see many marksmen-thugs capable of hitting a moving target over 100 meters away. Even gun enthusiasts overestimate their own skill when shooting from a comfortable, covered bench at static targets...

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Old 04-15-2019, 07:13 AM
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Take this with a grain of salt, I'm no sniper, just was a medic who spent a year in a recon/sniper platoon.

Remember that "sniper" is a set of tactics, not a rifle. While many think of this in context of the guy in a ghillie crawling up on someone, we are in the Urban Survival forum.

Which is good because my only experience with counter-sniper is in Baghdad. I was with the Engineers then and we were doing EOD duties. We got a couple shots taken at us one day, and after taking cover we learned of intel that a sniper was active in the area. What did we do?

We left, they sent a counter sniper team in later and bagged him.

To those who have said that avoiding the sniper and having a better sniper are the best courses of action, my experience agrees.

I worked with trained military snipers. In an Urban situation there is an incredible amount of planning, recon, contingency, etc. If you want to do well one has to know the craft. I was often scratching my head trying to plan CCP's around fallback positions, but when we got there I was always surprised at how well it worked.

Never deployed with the recon guys, just trained stateside.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:58 PM
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Yeah.....question is if you have that dream team and equipment....why are you messing around in a large city.
Salvage, recovery, and mining resources.

People cant even pin point a direction of a mass shooter in a building much less a single shot sniper.
'People' have no training and no concept of locating sources of sound, and are usually in a state of panic. They also do not know what to look for in addition to listening for the sound of shots.
Just my opinion.
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