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Old 04-12-2019, 06:12 PM
Exarmyguy Exarmyguy is offline
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Lets see ,brand new, almost new , 2nd hand.
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Old 04-13-2019, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rawhide76 View Post
Hello, I like mirroring my gear with military setups as a beginning outline and modifying it from there. I was wondering, who would you think to be better to follow? Airforce, Army, or Marines? I do not expect to be anywhere near the ocean. So I tend to move more toward the army than marines, although the army is usually well supplied compared to marines, so no need to carry as much on them. Airforce does carry survival gear, but I am not sure how helpful it would be to mirror them as they are the most well supplied.

I live about 15-20 miles inland from the Pacific Ocean in northern California. The area is a mild Mediterranian climate. countryside, a bit rural mixed with small cities and towns. The geography is oak/eucalyptus savannah, lots of grassland and hills. lots of open grass, with sparse oak/eucalyptus woodsy areas scattered around.

Here are some images to help you get an idea:
Attachment 285842

Attachment 285844

Attachment 285846

Attachment 285848

Attachment 285850
Newbie asks a new-guy question, and instead of a vague and open-ended question he gives enough information (including pictures) for people to offer relevant suggestions. Great work.

Two big picture things to keep in mind in addition to the suggestions already made. First, recognize that every gear choice made by a servicemember is based on a long logistics tail. For example, most load-bearing gear is based on a mission profile that includes a quick reaction force or resupply if they need extra help. Rifle choice is based on team tactics that include supporting fields of fire, a medic on the team with medevac on standby, and a squad-level weapon in support. Even the first multicam pattern utilities fielded to conventional forces had an expected lifespan of about 8 weeks because we knew they could be replaced. (There are better ones now.)

That brings up the second point. MILSPEC doesn't just mean "made by the lowest bidder" like we joke about. It's usually pretty rugged because it has to meet certain standards, but those standards aren't top-of-the-line. MILSPEC gear is designed to average a certain lifespan before its designated replacement by that big logistics system, and to meet specs that may or may not be relevant to you.

So military gear as a template is fine, but don't default to it being the right choice or the best gear just because the military uses it. A lot of civilian options can outperform military gear.

But the biggest thing is to look at it all as a system--not how each piece works, or even how each piece works as a system with all of your individual gear, but how each individual's gear fits within the larger system to accomplish specific missions. Unfortunately, that's hard to learn without experiencing it...but certainly not impossible.

If military gear is what you want, check out GarandThumb's earlier videos on YouTube. He'll walk you through how to choose clothes, set up a battle belt and plate carrier, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/user/BritishTang
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Old 04-13-2019, 09:28 AM
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I gotta agree with others about the gray man argument.

I choose good overalls. They are durable, have lots of pockets, and because I wear them nearly every day, I'm comfortable with them. They're also pretty versatile in hot or cold weather. It just depends on what you wear underneath it.

I have pretty much a full Army setup but it basically just sits in storage never seeing the light of day. I check on it every few years and all seems fine.

There's only two Army items I keep readily available. The first is a tactical vest with a full (plus some) combat load-out. This is just to give me the ability to grab my rifle and the vest and have everything I need in case some crazy person tries to do crazy things.

The second, and far more useful to me, is my canteen with canteen cup. In particular the canteen cup. Sounds silly probably but whether in the Army or as a civilian this is just so useful. On deployment I can honestly say everyone used their canteen cup on a daily basis. For coffee, food, just about anything really. As a civilian it's useful in the same way if camping or just working away from the house all day. I'm convinced it's a totally underrated piece of equipment.
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Old 04-13-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Cornly2 View Post
The second, and far more useful to me, is my canteen with canteen cup. In particular the canteen cup. Sounds silly probably but whether in the Army or as a civilian this is just so useful. On deployment I can honestly say everyone used their canteen cup on a daily basis. For coffee, food, just about anything really. As a civilian it's useful in the same way if camping or just working away from the house all day. I'm convinced it's a totally underrated piece of equipment.
Still use canteen cups today. Very versatile. Everyone of the bags I have set up for use other than the range has at least one GI canteen / canteen cup. I specifically look for the surplus steel ones. Too much Chinese aluminum knock-offs out there. Last 2 I got were stamped 1965 and were brand new!
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Old 04-13-2019, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawhide76 View Post
Hello, I like mirroring my gear with military setups as a beginning outline and modifying it from there.


I was wondering, who would you think to be better to follow? Airforce, Army, or Marines?
First off a couple questions need to be answered.

1. How much do you want to carry?

2. How do you intend to move your kit?

3. How much do you want to spend?



Quote:
I do not expect to be anywhere near the ocean.


Quote:
the army is usually well supplied compared to marines
WHAT?




Quote:
so no need to carry as much on them.
as them or on them?

Quote:
Airforce does carry survival gear, but I am not sure how helpful it would be to mirror them as they are the most well supplied.
lol


Quote:
I live about 15-20 miles inland from the Pacific Ocean in northern California. The area is a mild Mediterranian climate. countryside, a bit rural mixed with small cities and towns.
Ok let me get this straight you live within 15 miles of the coast and you don't intend to be near the ocean??


Ok dude. I am hoping you are a teen or uneducated as you sound a bit retarded.

Personally I have always gone army but I am so jealous of the marine kit, I only have a tshirt death before dishonour.

The big thing is cost. Marine force recon kit is uber expensive compared to grunt kit.

Its really that simple. Go marine if you are some privileged rich kid otherwise go army.

The other part is airforce, the airforce survival kit is amazing. It is light it is I dare say ranger worthy, the problem is you might need to be smart to survive using it. Research the airforce survival kit. The big stuff on that is that it is light.

Other than that go army for your kit, the ECWS stuff is cheap relatively and no longer US national guard so it isn't official USGI anymore to my knowledge so not confusing to wear as even the national guard doesn't wear it, if you want local camo just custom paint it, mineral based paints suggested.

Overall I'd look into the design of some Russian carriage systems.

Overall I would suggest you go army unless you have money burning a hole in your pocket.

I didn't really like APECs stuff to much, but I love absolutely love the ECWCS.
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:02 PM
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Ok dude. I am hoping you are a teen or uneducated as you sound a bit retarded.
Why are you the way that you are?
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Old 04-14-2019, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTShawn View Post
So, grey man mixed with milsurp, with some terrain appropriate local hunting gear. Add a bit of tech savvy knowledge and I see a good place to be.

Now for the OP. The military is set up to be a complimentary team. A HUGE complimentary team with differing aims and goals that lead to one end. There is no specific boot to strap into. They all have their place. I served with all branches in my Army days. I learned a lot in combat, so did those in other branches. The best thing you could do is talk to a local hunting pro and a backwoods camping person. Talk to outdoorsy local vets. They will tell you the same thing Aerindel or I did in my reply to him.
If you look like a soldier, you will die like one. They have toys of which you can never fathom. Learn your environment and choose the tool for the job. Most of the time emulating the military is going to be a negative. Go local. A local hunter will beat military cammo 99%. of the time. This is not to say military tools do not have their place. Arm yourself with ammo that they use. The rest is just a guess. I have been in 4 war theaters and my clothes and tools are better than what the military has. Most outdoors men/ vets, have found this also to be true. Feel free to keep this thread going and do it before the others kill you for such a post. hahahaha. Just playing, I see you are new"ish". Welcome to SB. Be tough, scenario playing brings out all types. Beautiful pictures by the way.
Please share what "clothes and tools" you recommend.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:01 AM
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We mix what works for us, depending upon cost, durability and practically.

Have a bunch of military surplus gear and clothing put up in storage, US and German mostly. No line of service, just whatever hits the criteria mentioned above.

Ex:Scandinavian thermal underwear sets (new, a bunch), US army digital camo BDU pants used excellent condition (lots of them-cheap), Australian wool socks (new, a bunch), German fleck camo gortex overpants & jackets (a bunch)...etc etc

Not for us to use in “combat”, per say, but should something happen where the world as we know it implodes. We will have comfortable well wearing work clothes to rotate into our “normal” civilian work clothes thereby extending comfort and overall reducing wear.

Have just a few US army BDU digital camo tops, bought cheap on a whim. For us, they are far less practical vs the BDU pants as everyday outdoors working clothes.

Simply easier for us to do it that way (cost & time wise), rather than scouring Goodwill/yard sales/estate sales for luck of the draw. While we do hit the goodwill/yard sales/estate sales on occasion (less so nowadays), its more for fun or looking for a particular(s).

As to load bearing/plate carrier gear, that’s mostly a mix of US army surplus and civilian (bought super cheap, second hand). Seriously hoping to never have a need for that gear, outiside of training...
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Old 04-14-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Just Jeff View Post
Why are you the way that you are?

Not enough sesame street growing up.


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Old 04-14-2019, 12:34 PM
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Not enough sesame street growing up.


Now for a word from our sponsor, one for the entire board.


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You just called somebody retarded and are asking for kindness? GFY.
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:34 PM
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I get a huge giggle about military gear fascination.
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Old 04-14-2019, 02:16 PM
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Perhaps one should look into fashionable 'refugee wear'.
Based on historical documents, a popular item is a wheeled cart to haul your meager possessions.
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Old 04-14-2019, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
I like to model my gear off insurgent and terrorist organizations as I think that is far more practical for a civilian than trying to emulate what a massive powerful high tech military with battleships, combat drones and an air-force is going to be equipped with.
Did the Chicom mavy steal some battleships?? No one else has any in service. Their manmade island might qualify as aircraft carriers AND battleships.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:35 PM
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You just called somebody retarded and are asking for kindness? GFY.

I think you need to learn to read and not create imaginary scenarios.

1. I at no point called it retarded. I said I hope you are a teen as you sound retarded for an adult --- not a direct quote but close. Basically saying what it was writing seemed retarded for an adult. I didn't go out and say hey so and so you are a retard. Two totally different things bud. - This directly correspond to my advice as I wouldn't give the same advice to a teen as I would a retarded adult. Hence hoping you are a kid not an adult. Again there are many adults who aren't very literate or are developmentally disfunctional (ie retarded) their prepping needs are not the same as a teen. Context is important. I know you probably are sensitive to the use of the word retard. I am not. Also writing retarded doesn't make you retarded, it just means you write in a way that makes you seem retarded.

2. I didn't ask for kindness. I stated I didn't watch enough sesame street as a kid thus am not as kind as I should be, then posted an allusion that much of the board probably didn't watch enough sesame street growing up and aren't very kind. This was done half jokingly. I'm actually a very nice person. I am also a very kind person compared to most and most on this board.

Ok now you can go and have a hissy fit about words that aren't what I wrote but support the premise of having a hissy fit. Sometimes nice is being honest. Sometimes not saying things doesn't help.

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Old 04-14-2019, 10:17 PM
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There's a reason I stopped reading your posts a while ago...didn't realize it was you when I started reading that one. I try not to block people, and you are only the third one in nine years on this board.

Not going to derail the thread anymore.
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 6.8SPC View Post
I get a huge giggle about military gear fascination.
It's a hobby for some. I'll add that after I retired and did some contract work...it was the same problem. Most contractors all looked the same...cool gear that didn't fit in anywhere as they wanted to look like their military counterparts.

There's a balance and much of it depends on your location and what is commonly worn. Around most military installations, you'll find a larger number of people wearing surplus gear; in some circles it is a fashion.

I've taken several civilian gun classes and find it funny to see some guys who regularly wear their BDU cargo pants, 5.11 shirt, and some gun-related hat. They stick out a sore thumb and scream, "I'm Carrying Concealed"! I've learned to dress more casual, more drab, less tactical...works well in my area.

Moving up to a more "tactical gray man" concept, some older solid color surplus jackets work well to conceal my more serious gear but don't attract attention. I do like cargo pants, but avoid the BDU style for anything but work around the house or a quick run into town to pick up supplies from the local ACE Hardware store.

Again, if you're avoiding all contact and plan to patrol your property, scout local areas, or stalk game, camo-up. That location would be ideal for Multicam...just avoid the fire-resistant versions as they're not very robust.

ROCK6
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:04 AM
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I've taken several civilian gun classes and find it funny to see some guys who regularly wear their BDU cargo pants, 5.11 shirt, and some gun-related hat. They stick out a sore thumb and scream, "I'm Carrying Concealed"! I've learned to dress more casual, more drab, less tactical...works well in my area.

Moving up to a more "tactical gray man" concept, some older solid color surplus jackets work well to conceal my more serious gear but don't attract attention. I do like cargo pants, but avoid the BDU style for anything but work around the house or a quick run into town to pick up supplies from the local ACE Hardware store.
Preach it. I don't think it's out of place to see that in a gun class (except that you're supposed to train how you'll fight), but when I see someone like that out in town I assume they're carrying.

A while back, I wanted some durable pants without cargo pockets. Do you know how hard those are to find?! Almost all rugged pants these days have cargo pockets, and almost all pants without cargo pockets are made for tooling around town. The only ones that actually met my criteria were Duluth Firehose Five-Pocket Jeans in khaki, but I found some cheap-ish ones with Bass Pro's Red Ledge brand that were pretty close. The khaki Duluths have gone through two 4-day gun classes and still look nice enough for business casual events.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
just avoid the fire-resistant versions as they're not very robust.

ROCK6
In that same vein avoid synthetics if you can for outer wear if you plan on being around fires..

You might want to test various fabrics for gloves as stuff like the airforce fuel handlers stuff will disintegrate in the presence of flame.

Furhte rto that the DOD (army etc..) have equipment guides that outline the design and use and care of all their kit. These will be useful to analyze.

Bear in mind darpa or the equiv research orgs all designed equipment for purposes with 'needs' and standards.

A heads up that Cordura is awesome learn about nylon and what is good for what purpose. When getting kit this can be the difference between being weighted or having gear tear out.

In deciding on load bearing gear, etc.. it can matter.

ILBE and the army shoulder straps are comfortable but not perfect.

Expect to modify and learn to adapt equipment a bit.

Just a note on synthetics.. my favorite outer layer is actually polypropelne cold/wet kit. it is great for cool wet climates and can also be opened up for warmer environments.. it howvver is vunerable to sharp objects... it is also vunerable to flame.

avoid putting synethics either in outer layer or in the inner most layer unless it is fire retardant.

Also fire retardant does not equal fire proof. generally fire retardant materials break apart in presence of flame.. great for not getting burned on first contact not so great on preventing ongoing flame. stuff that melts is worse though.

Ideally you want something that won't easily catch fire on the outermost layer and something much the same on the inner most.

This becomes a seasonal issue as in summer sweat in contact with fabric is fine, in winter not so great.


Also bear in mind the airforce often depends on emergency radio beacons as a goto for survival situations ERB not such a great option for the private person - also a strobe can still help in S&R situations not so useful for a prepper trying to avoid unwanted contact.


Field rations and patrol kit are not intended for long term survival --- only marines will have kit for independent operations and they bring their own construction equipment.

Woodcraft and survivalist kit will be needed to supplement field kit for extended survival situations. An etool is great but a hatchet will do better in woods.. kit out for your intended environment, game animals, and forage processing needs. Miltiary kit will be geared toward combat engineering and emergency combat medicine as well as patrol --- it is not optimized for ongoing survival. The idea of the kbar or machete etc.. are kitted to operational needs. Look at what operational needs you have. As someone deploying to the gulf does not have the same operational needs as someone on the litorial areas of California. Look at what the early natives and settlers to the area used to pioneer. Researching local natives will be great for foraging needs.. once you have that info you can figure out what kit will be useful, however you would provably be better off joining your local national guard and kitting out that way, atleast it would have direct application.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamAshley View Post
First off a couple questions need to be answered.

1. How much do you want to carry?

2. How do you intend to move your kit?

3. How much do you want to spend?








WHAT?






as them or on them?


lol




Ok let me get this straight you live within 15 miles of the coast and you don't intend to be near the ocean??


Ok dude. I am hoping you are a teen or uneducated as you sound a bit retarded.

Personally I have always gone army but I am so jealous of the marine kit, I only have a tshirt death before dishonour.

The big thing is cost. Marine force recon kit is uber expensive compared to grunt kit.

Its really that simple. Go marine if you are some privileged rich kid otherwise go army.

The other part is airforce, the airforce survival kit is amazing. It is light it is I dare say ranger worthy, the problem is you might need to be smart to survive using it. Research the airforce survival kit. The big stuff on that is that it is light.

Other than that go army for your kit, the ECWS stuff is cheap relatively and no longer US national guard so it isn't official USGI anymore to my knowledge so not confusing to wear as even the national guard doesn't wear it, if you want local camo just custom paint it, mineral based paints suggested.

Overall I'd look into the design of some Russian carriage systems.

Overall I would suggest you go army unless you have money burning a hole in your pocket.

I didn't really like APECs stuff to much, but I love absolutely love the ECWCS.


I donít even have the words.

SMH
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:01 PM
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Military gear is heavy, civilian gear is light.
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