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Old 09-21-2015, 07:03 PM
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Day 15.
You wake up, and those bodies in the streets are now missing arms and legs. You pour more whiskey on your corn flakes for breakfast, and pretend to compare prices in old catalogs after winding the gramophone to hear the Andrew sisters for the 80th time.
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Old 09-21-2015, 07:19 PM
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One reason is because the video of the car that was subjected to an EMP strong enough to kill the semiconductors, still had battery to operate lights and window motors. Batteries are rather robust compared with nanometer thicknesses of doped semiconductor material.

If the battery was connected to a mile long set of wires, then yeah, it would likely explode. but not in a typical vehicle installation, by empirical evidence if nothing else.
All your empirical evidence shows is that other things are likely to fry first.Which has little to do with battery survival. Because there may be EMP/CME a thousand times stronger than needed to fry semiconductors. And most of us have experienced dead batteries, sometimes from unknown cause.
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Old 09-21-2015, 07:32 PM
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OK, if you want to worry about batteries, don't let me dissuade you.
A big enough solar event (Like a super nova will melt the Earth)
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Old 09-22-2015, 05:33 AM
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Because there may be EMP/CME a thousand times stronger than needed to fry semiconductors. .
At ground level it is not possible to have levels a thousand times stronger than what will fry a semiconductor.
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Old 09-22-2015, 06:35 AM
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I did read your "plan"

You posted - IF NO ELECTRIC POWER OR RADIO STAIONS THEN:
Open faraday cage: Check for cell phone service by calling neighbors/family to see if they have power.

So - how will phone work after the EMP event...?

A Faraday cage protects electronics from an EMP.
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Old 09-22-2015, 06:50 AM
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Day 15.
You wake up, and those bodies in the streets are now missing arms and legs. You pour more whiskey on your corn flakes for breakfast, and pretend to compare prices in old catalogs after winding the gramophone to hear the Andrew sisters for the 80th time.
No way. Artie Shaw , Begin the Beguine.
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Old 09-22-2015, 06:52 AM
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A Faraday cage protects electronics from an EMP.
I think the point was that the cell phone towers would be dead from the EMP. So having a fully protected cell phone would not remedy that.
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Old 09-22-2015, 06:56 AM
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Seems somehow different than today's music. What's that word I'm looking for?
O yeah, Good.
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:36 AM
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Just a quick 2 cents worth. Cell service also depends on satellites. Which may not be effected by the blast. If you have one that powers up out of the faraday, then try like crazy to get out on it. Remember, after 200? newer cell phones have a built in FM radio most have to have earphone to use as an antenna, but its there... Don't forget that.
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:53 AM
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At ground level it is not possible to have levels a thousand times stronger than what will fry a semiconductor.
Based on what, exactly? The whole planet can be fried to a crisp.
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Old 09-22-2015, 10:41 AM
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Based on what, exactly? The whole planet can be fried to a crisp.
Cant be burnt to a crisp, at least not by EMP.


EM Energy Density limitations are determined by Electrical Permiativity and Magnetic Permittivity of the media.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeab...ectromagnetism)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permittivity

Basically typical ground atmosphere puts the limit here at 50Kv/M. Before the "air" is saturated and goes to an avalanche short to dump the energy it can no longer hold.

The amount of "charge" before lightning must discharge is a similar concept.

When a nuke detonates high in space you can have much higher numbers, but here on the ground, not so much.

See "Peak Electric Field at ground zero" Graph:

http://www.emp.us.com/emp-radiation-...ear-space.html

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/sta...number=6521364
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Old 09-22-2015, 10:47 AM
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Cant be burnt to a crisp, at least not by EMP.


EM Energy Density limitations are determined by Electrical Permiativity and Magnetic Permittivity of the media.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeab...ectromagnetism)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permittivity

Basically typical ground atmosphere puts the limit here at 50Kv/M. Before the "air" is saturated and goes to an avalanche short to dump the energy it can no longer hold.

The amount of "charge" before lightning must discharge is a similar concept.

When a nuke detonates high in space you can have much higher numbers, but here on the ground, not so much.

See "Peak Electric Field at ground zero" Graph:

http://www.emp.us.com/emp-radiation-...ear-space.html

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/sta...number=6521364
Not by EMP, but by CME (as my post mentioned, specifically.
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Old 09-22-2015, 10:51 AM
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Not by EMP, but by CME (as my post mentioned, specifically.
CME, IS a lower frequency broader EMP. Both are electromagnetic waves. CME is actually less energy per unit area than typical EMP. Same limitations apply, neither can "scorch" the earth. Other mechanisms could though.............
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:13 AM
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CME, IS a lower frequency broader EMP. Both are electromagnetic waves. CME is actually less energy per unit area than typical EMP. Same limitations apply, neither can "scorch" the earth. Other mechanisms could though.............
The point is, though, that EMP strength is limited by the weapons size, and CME is not. Sun is big. And nobody actually knows how powerful CME can be. Hopefully we will not have to find out.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:01 AM
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The point is, though, that EMP strength is limited by the weapons size, and CME is not. .
NO, you miss the point. Both are equally limited by Permittivity and Permeability.

We DO know how powerful CME "can" be................

We don't exist in "Free Space", Just like EMP, CME has atmospheric Permittivity and Permeability limitations. Of course if the Sun wipes the atmosphere off our planet, then these limitations no longer exist.

As long as we have atmosphere, we have defined, set limitations for CME intensity on the surface of the earth.

In addition, CME is typically low frequency, this in itself imposes energy density limitations, and energy transference (induction) inefficiencies .




Regarding EMP, Weapons "size" does not always correlate to the EMP "size".
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:02 AM
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:32 AM
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Artie Shaw : Begin the Beguine - YouTube


Seems somehow different than today's music. What's that word I'm looking for?
O yeah, Good.
My father fought WWII in the Pacific. He came home on an escort carrier and they played "Sentimental Journey" all the way to Pearl. He played a lot of big band music on the phonograph (remember those?) when I was a kid.
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:43 AM
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My father fought WWII in the Pacific. .
So, did mine. Japs bombed the crap out of him and blew up a ship next to his.
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Old 09-23-2015, 10:24 AM
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So, we worry about an EMP. That's enough in its self. What about fallout? High altitude detonation of said weapon could cause high amounts of radiation but little dust or debris. Could radiation poison still be an issue? Would the prevailing winds play a roll?
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Old 09-23-2015, 11:36 AM
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So, we worry about an EMP. That's enough in its self. What about fallout? High altitude detonation of said weapon could cause high amounts of radiation but little dust or debris. Could radiation poison still be an issue? Would the prevailing winds play a roll?
No. High altitude bursts of the type that would maximize EMP effects can create artificial radiation belts which damage satellites, but as far as ground-level fallout, the fallout is limited to the actual bomb materials which is miniscule compared to a surface burst. That miniscule amount is spread over such a wide area it poses no short-term danger. It essentially stays in the atmosphere so long it is pretty much harmless by the time it comes down. Even long term danger would be negligible and insignificant when compared to the number of surface bursts that were done during the 50s and 60s.
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