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Old 04-03-2020, 05:01 PM
Klbsa Klbsa is offline
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Default Another Caliber Vs. Caliber Thread



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So I was browsing Ammo online and I noticed that .45acp +p has very similar ballistics to your typical 10mm....... So like any curious net surfing gun lover I went straight to YouTube and sure enough....... A billion .45acp vs 10mm videos.

My dilemma....... I own a few .45acp’s but NO 10mm’s. In the videos I watched the ballistics gel testing and the 45+p would go about 12-13 inches, while the 10mm was getting 17-24 inch penetration.

BUT...... The wound channel of the .45+p was WAY nastier and wider than the 10mm’s although obviously not even close as deep.

I have a .44mag for outdoor critter defense but I really like the idea of having a pistol with double digit rounds vs the 5 round in my tracker.

The question is...... Can a .45 acp +p hard cast bullet take down a black bear or maybe a big cat as effectively as the 10mm? It would save me some money..... But on the other hand a new caliber sounds pretty awesome too.
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:12 PM
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Your post just made me recall this story of an Alaskan guide taking down a grizzly with a 9mm. I wouldn't suggest it but it shows it can be done.
https://www.americanhunter.org/artic...th-9mm-pistol/
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klbsa View Post
So I was browsing Ammo online and I noticed that .45acp +p has very similar ballistics to your typical 10mm....... So like any curious net surfing gun lover I went straight to YouTube and sure enough....... A billion .45acp vs 10mm videos.

My dilemma....... I own a few .45acp’s but NO 10mm’s. In the videos I watched the ballistics gel testing and the 45+p would go about 12-13 inches, while the 10mm was getting 17-24 inch penetration.

BUT...... The wound channel of the .45+p was WAY nastier and wider than the 10mm’s although obviously not even close as deep.

I have a .44mag for outdoor critter defense but I really like the idea of having a pistol with double digit rounds vs the 5 round in my tracker.

The question is...... Can a .45 acp +p hard cast bullet take down a black bear or maybe a big cat as effectively as the 10mm? It would save me some money..... But on the other hand a new caliber sounds pretty awesome too.
Either will put down a black bear if you do your part. A certain fella from TX put down big cat with his Ruger LCP ( 380 acp) while he was out jogging. Have no problems dumping feral pigs with 40snw personally.

I suggest you focus on a reliable handgun that you are best at using first, and go from there.
Nothing wrong with 44magnum, but for that kind of weight in loaded ammunition, you could carry the same amount in 308 win. .....which has a much broader spectrum of being useful as a big game hunting cartridge, and more capable of being used as a hunting cartridge vs any critter in this hemisphere from point blank and out to at least 200 yards.

Both bears in below pic taken with one 165gr SGK HPBT each. ( The 2nd bear was in a full on sprint when it ended up in the dirt.)

11B
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klbsa View Post
So I was browsing Ammo online and I noticed that .45acp +p has very similar ballistics to your typical 10mm....... So like any curious net surfing gun lover I went straight to YouTube and sure enough....... A billion .45acp vs 10mm videos.

My dilemma....... I own a few .45acpís but NO 10mmís. In the videos I watched the ballistics gel testing and the 45+p would go about 12-13 inches, while the 10mm was getting 17-24 inch penetration.

BUT...... The wound channel of the .45+p was WAY nastier and wider than the 10mmís although obviously not even close as deep.

I have a .44mag for outdoor critter defense but I really like the idea of having a pistol with double digit rounds vs the 5 round in my tracker.

The question is...... Can a .45 acp +p hard cast bullet take down a black bear or maybe a big cat as effectively as the 10mm? It would save me some money..... But on the other hand a new caliber sounds pretty awesome too.
With FBI Spec loads your statement is true. But when full SAMMI spec loads are used in the 10mm it is dramatically more powerful than the 45acp. 45 ACP with PREMIUM ammo rarely exceeds 500ft/lb of energy. The 10mm with a 180gr full spec load at 1250fps makes in the 625 ft/lb range. So comparing apples to apples the 10mm has a good ammount more energy than the 45ACP. And before anyone gets too upset with this statement I cut my teeth on the .45acp and carried a 1911 for a good portion of my career and love it to this day. Facts are just facts.

For comparison SIG V-Crown
45ACP--- https://www.sigsauer.com/store/45aut...crown-jhp.html at 471 ft/lb

10mm---- https://www.sigsauer.com/store/10mm-...crown-jhp.html
at 624 ft/lb
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:52 PM
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I was right there with you about three yrs ago. I wanted a auto pistol I could fit with a streamlight, and since I had hogs, panthers, and black bears sneaking around at night, I wanted to shoot big bullets.

I looked at the ballistics of 45 +P, and even looked at factory loads (I normally handload). I also looked at the durability of a modern pistol fed a steady diet of +P ammo (now that forged 1911 frames are no more). My conclussion was most new 45 pistols use cast or powder metalurgy parts, and cast or machined frames. Not a great recipe for a long life.

I also looked at 10mm ballistics, and factory loads. I already owned several 40 cal pistols and was set up to load this cartridge. The ballistic of the 10mm is very comparable with a 45 +P. So is the history of 10mm breaking hammers, ejectors, and frames.

Which left me with three options, buy a Glock, a Sig 220, or an old Colt 1911 with a real GI forged frame.

When I discovered that Sig had beefed up the frame on the P220 when they chambered it in 10mm, and I could buy it with a beavertail grip and a SAO trigger, the choice was easy. Paying the stiff price for a Sig 220 Elite was not easy,. But then it did come with target sights, and a real sweet trigger.

I would not choose either 10mm or 45 +P for grizzly bears., but either will stomp feral hogs, panthers, or black bears.
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Old 04-03-2020, 08:39 PM
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A properly loaded .45ACP will drop black bear no problem.
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Old 04-03-2020, 09:09 PM
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The 49mm glock&wesson ak15 is the only rite answer here. It must have the acog reflex grips and be capable of firing in full semi automatic from high capacity clipazines. Oh and the heat sheilding bayonet lug, gotta have that. And most importantly!!!!.... black! That mfer gotta be black!
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:15 AM
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one in every crowd!
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:32 AM
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Just buy a 44 magnum and be done with it

Unless you are having to shoot vast numbers of 2 legged critters or hoards of rushing zombies

The need for more than 6 rounds is negligible
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:38 AM
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one in every crowd!
And its usually me.
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Old 04-04-2020, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klbsa View Post
So I was browsing Ammo online and I noticed that .45acp +p has very similar ballistics to your typical 10mm....... So like any curious net surfing gun lover I went straight to YouTube and sure enough....... A billion .45acp vs 10mm videos.

My dilemma....... I own a few .45acpís but NO 10mmís. In the videos I watched the ballistics gel testing and the 45+p would go about 12-13 inches, while the 10mm was getting 17-24 inch penetration.

BUT...... The wound channel of the .45+p was WAY nastier and wider than the 10mmís although obviously not even close as deep.

I have a .44mag for outdoor critter defense but I really like the idea of having a pistol with double digit rounds vs the 5 round in my tracker.

The question is...... Can a .45 acp +p hard cast bullet take down a black bear or maybe a big cat as effectively as the 10mm? It would save me some money..... But on the other hand a new caliber sounds pretty awesome too.
If you're looking for penetration, bullet construction is far more important than a couple hundred feet per second. A well designed .44 or .45 caliber bullet at 950 fps or so, will penetrate enough to kill anything you're likely to run into.
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Old 04-04-2020, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by HappyinID View Post
If you're looking for penetration, bullet construction is far more important than a couple hundred feet per second. A well designed .44 or .45 caliber bullet at 950 fps or so, will penetrate enough to kill anything you're likely to run into.
Exactly right
A 255 grain SWC from a .45 Colt (11.43 mm) at 950 fps standard pressure SAAMI spec
Tried and true
Energy is not the only consideration
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Old 04-04-2020, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klbsa View Post
The question is...... Can a .45 acp +p hard cast bullet take down a black bear or maybe a big cat as effectively as the 10mm? It would save me some money..... But on the other hand a new caliber sounds pretty awesome too.
The .45 can get it done.

But the 10mm can be loaded far beyond what the .45 ACP can get to.
And I like diversity, so a 10 mm is a fun option.
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Old 04-04-2020, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
Exactly right
A 255 grain SWC from a .45 Colt (11.43 mm) at 950 fps standard pressure SAAMI spec
Tried and true
Energy is not the only consideration
Nope, not even the most important consideration.

A warm hardcast SWC in .45 acp will likely work as well, as long as the gun feeds them.

I think if someone was looking for woods protection, their .45 acp would serve just fine. The guys I sometimes run into up here, carrying their single action .454 Casul's (loaded with hot ammo that they still have rounds left in the 20 round box they bought with the gun), would be far better served with a .45 auto they could hit things with... fast.

.
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Old 04-04-2020, 03:34 PM
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Caliber is the hole in the barrel. It could include a multitude of rounds. When you compare caliber to caliber you are talking nonsense.
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Old 04-04-2020, 03:55 PM
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Default Have you heard of the 45 Super?

The 45 Super is externally the same as a 45ACP. Internally it is different, beefier to allow higher pressure and more support for firearms with unsupported chambers. It's only to be used in 45ACP firearms made with steel and only requires three springs available from Wolf for the conversion. It brings the 45ACP up to 10 mm levels. For anyone interested I would recommend further research.

It may be Ruger but not positive But I've seen it chambered by at least one company. And factory ammo is available thru Midway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Super

Quote:
The .45 Super is a powerful smokeless powder center fire metallic firearm cartridge developed in 1988 by Dean Grennell, a well-known writer in the firearms field as well as managing editor of Gun World magazine.[2][3] It is dimensionally similar to the .45 ACP round but has a thicker case wall and is loaded to higher pressures, which offers an average 300 feet per second (91 m/s) improvement in muzzle velocity over the .45 ACP.
https://skyaboveus.com/hunting-shoot...s-the-45-Super

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A Dash of History...

To explain the .45 Super cartridge, it might be best to give a little history lesson on its direct descendant, the venerable .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol). The .45 ACP was designed in 1904 by John Browning, specifically for his new M1911 automatic pistol, which would go on to become the standard service weapon of the United States military from 1911 to 1985. That particular weapon is also the basis for modern 1911 style weapons.
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Old 04-04-2020, 04:17 PM
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I wouldn't be beating a 45 ACP auto to death with +P "10 mm" loads.
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Old 04-04-2020, 04:29 PM
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I wouldn't be beating a 45 ACP auto to death with +P "10 mm" loads.
I wouldn't either to be honest, 45ACP is more than enough for me. However there are frames out there chambered for both 45 and 10, would those actually care if the cartridge was a 45 Super?
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Old 04-04-2020, 04:44 PM
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`

If I were concerned about having enough horsepower to knock down a bear while still having capacity & the ability to reasonably conceal it for EDC use, I'd go with a Glock 20, or something similar. You can carry 15+1 with the ability to do a fast reload of another 15. The Norwegians use the Glock 20 for polar bear defense in Greenland also. Then you could go with something like the Underwood ammo or hot handloads (within reloading guidelines of course) that will be at least as powerful as 45acp+p if not more so. Just a few examples.

10mm Auto 220 Grain Hard Cast Flat Nose

Technical Information

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 220 Grains
Bullet Style: Hi -Tek Coated Hard Cast Flat Nose 21 BHN
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass

Ballistics Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps
Muzzle Energy: 703 ft lbs

.

10mm Auto 200 Grain Hard Cast Flat Nose


Technical Information

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 200 Grains
Bullet Style: Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast Flat Nose 21 BHN
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass

Ballistics Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps
Muzzle Energy: 694 ft lbs

.


10mm Auto 200 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point

Technical Information

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 200 Grains
Bullet Style: Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass

Ballistics Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps
Muzzle Energy: 694 ft lbs

.

10mm Auto 200 Grain XTP Jacketed Hollow Point

Technical Information

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 200 Grains
Bullet Style: Hornady XTP Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass

Ballistics Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps
Muzzle Energy: 694 ft lbs



.

10mm Auto 180 Grain Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point

Technical Information

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 180 Grains
Bullet Style: Speer Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass

Ballistics Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps
Muzzle Energy: 676 ft lbs

.


10mm Auto 140 Grain Xtreme Penetrator

Technical Information

Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 140 Grains
Bullet Style: Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Brass

Ballistics Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1500 fps
Muzzle Energy: 700 ft lbs
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:51 PM
hinkak hinkak is offline
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I'm not recoil sensitive and my cool weather carry is a Sig Ultra in 45, 3.3". I'm very accurate with that pistol w/ quick follow up. I've had several 10mm pistols. Full loads in a 5" 1911 beat your hands up much more than a 45. I have a 6" long slide double stack 2011 RIA, my zombie gun. Makes shooting 10mm 200gr HC Underwood feel like you're shooting 45. Something to consider if you want a more powerful cartridge.
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