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Old 09-11-2017, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Klbsa View Post
Yes you will..... While everyone is trying to keep their 45s, 9mms, 40s, 357s etc on target at 10-15 yards you will be putting .22s through the same hole in the bad guys eye with that Ruger mark at 20 yards... Those things are crazy accurate. LOVE those guns.

My wife and I watch lots of ID channel (aka the murder channel) and the vast majority of homicides by gun are committed with .22lr.

.22 is plenty deadly
On the show maybe, but .22 is not the bullet in the "vast majority" of homicides today.

Caliber used in homicides is not a particularly good measure of effectiveness anyway.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:20 PM
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We recognize this thread started 10 years ago, right? Even then -It's a valid point of argument.
4" M29 for me. I'd rather wish it was smaller and try to conceal it than wish my G19 was more powerful and not be able to make it so.

Frankly I'd be satisfied with anything that works, has ammo, and is accurate.

Most decent handguns are going to excel at something and be found lacking at something else. Assuming you actually know what you'll need your firearm to excel at in a completely unpredictable situation is silly.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:52 PM
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Well, that is good man because you're going to need quite a few follow up shots unless you're going to walk up to someone and Joe Peschi them in the back of the head.

I've seen one too many CPD shooting videos of your average 6' 200lb male taking multiple 9mm rounds center mass and they still don't drop quick enough for my comfort. Now factor in if they're shooting back, on any hard drug, or layered up winter clothing and you'd have to be higher than giraffe coochie to defend yourself, or your family with only a .22lr
Handgun bullets just poke holes -- that's why "multiple 9mm rounds center mass" isn't impressive. Nothing from a handgun is. The whole spectrum from .22 to .45 is shockingly similar -- statistically, it's hard to tell them apart: https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power

9mm is a safe, conventional choice. Hard to go wrong. However, a .22 does have some advantages (and disadvantages), and for some people who know what they are doing and can leverage them, an unconventional choice is the right one.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:52 PM
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Out of the Handguns I own it would be my Walther PPQ M2 Navy (9mm).

If I could pick any handgun it would have to be an AREX Rex Zero 1S 9mm.
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Metric View Post
Handgun bullets just poke holes -- that's why "multiple 9mm rounds center mass" isn't impressive. Nothing from a handgun is. The whole spectrum from .22 to .45 is shockingly similar -- statistically, it's hard to tell them apart: https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power

9mm is a safe, conventional choice. Hard to go wrong. However, a .22 does have some advantages (and disadvantages), and for some people who know what they are doing and can leverage them, an unconventional choice is the right one.
The velocity and/or energy is not shockingly similar in the least.

I'll use my Glock 31 as an example. It's going to poke alright, loaded with .357sig FMJ's its going to poke clear on through contestant #1 and into whatever was behind him, hell most FMJ's will. Hence hollow points being the carry round of choice, along with their more effective fragmentation in a defense scenario. Colorado State Police issues the Glock 31 because it was the most effective round, they found, at puncturing duelly tires on a semi. Air Marshall's conducted similar testing and found the round to be more than capable at puncturing a cockpit door. Virginia State Police made the switch after their 9mm service weapons weren't stopping guard dogs in their tracks. Those are just 3 examples I know of where departments found the 9mm to be severely lacking in "stopping power." Now if 9mm is having these difficulties where does .22lr stand?

You really think the results are going to be "shockingly similar" if you nail someone at 5 yards with a .45 in the chest, and that same distance/shoot placement with a .22lr?
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:37 PM
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A S & W Model 27 with a 4" barrel is my choice.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:42 PM
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I own only one, a Glock 43NS in a Desantis IWB......
Update Just brought home a Ruger security six so now I have two
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Old 09-19-2017, 12:05 PM
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You really think the results are going to be "shockingly similar" if you nail someone at 5 yards with a .45 in the chest, and that same distance/shoot placement with a .22lr?
Not sure what is so controversial here -- you just got done telling us how standard SD calibers are woefully lacking in stopping power. This is exactly what we should expect at handgun velocity.

If someone takes a .45 to the chest, to get a stop you either need a "psychological stop" (i.e. he gives up for fear of more shots), or you poke a hole through something vital that he needs to continue his attack. Heart, major blood vessel, cns, etc.

The exact same factors are at play with a .22, with some minor tweaks. A .45 has slightly better odds of grazing something vital, due to the larger diameter. And the bullet should be less deterred after striking bone or some light barrier. On the other hand, the speed/accuracy advantages of a .22 are dramatic, and this is not theoretical -- it's quite easy to test/demonstrate.

The shooting stats at https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power seem very consistent with this picture. This is not to say that everyone should be carrying a .22 -- the majority should stick to "common knowledge" to avoid unexpected issues -- but I have a feeling that the guy who said "I'll be fine" with his .22 is one of the more dangerous shooters in the thread.
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Old 09-19-2017, 04:47 PM
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I picked mine up yesterday.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:02 PM
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I picked mine up yesterday.

Revolver?...........
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:06 PM
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Revolver?...........
I already had a Ruger .357 but went with an M&P .40/9mm.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:14 PM
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I already had a Ruger .357 but went with an M&P .40/9mm.
Nice set, I use a glock 43 9mm and just picked up a exc. con. Ruger security six to go with my .357 Winchester.....I suppose they still have the 15 day wait they had when I lived there or did they increase it yet?
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:20 PM
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Nice set, I use a glock 43 9mm and just picked up a exc. con. Ruger security six to go with my .357 Winchester.....I suppose they still have the 15 day wait they had when I lived there or did they increase it yet?
Ten day wait.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Metric View Post
but I have a feeling that the guy who said "I'll be fine" with his .22 is one of the more dangerous shooters in the thread.
I scored Expert in the Army and keep my shooting skills honed by waging a neverending jihad on the vermin around here.

I'll be fine.


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Old 09-19-2017, 06:36 PM
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Cz p-01......
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:40 PM
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CZ-75BD. It makes me happy.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:01 PM
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For years I would have stuck with a Ruger Security six .357. But I am very impressed with the H&K VP9. I like it better than the USP 9. More accurate than the S&W I recently won a match with. It is a very high quality piece.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:08 AM
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When people on you tube say that you need 5 survival guns ! Question how you going to carry the guns and the ammo for them?
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Old 09-20-2017, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by InTheWOODS View Post
If you could have just one pistol that had to suit all your needs(ccw, wrol, home defense) what would be and what caliber? for me its glock 19. because of the availability of glock parts and 9mm is easy to come by and still an effective round.
The 9mm is actually completely inadequate for anything more than possibly stopping a human who doesn't feel too strongly about not going down after being shot.

The MINIMUM power for an "all around" handgun is 600 lb-ft. The 9mm can NEVER achieve that. The .40 S&W can and so too can the .45 ACP when loaded to "Super" levels. Of course the 10mm can easily deliver more than 600 lb-ft of KE, as can any and all of the larger bores beyond the 10mm.

The 10mm can easily strike with 700-800 lb-ft of KE.
The .45 Super can do the same

The only .38 caliber autopistol that can even come close is the 9x25 Dillon which must be shot from a large-frame so why not simply go with the larger calibers.

Consider the total power delivery of a Glock 10mm carrying 16 shots x800 lb-ft of KE per shot...

An even BETTER alternative is a 1911 or G21 "converted" to shoot the .460 Rowland at 1,000 lb-ft of KE per shot!
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Old 09-20-2017, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansgruber View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheWOODS View Post
If you could have just one pistol that had to suit all your needs(ccw, wrol, home defense) what would be and what caliber? for me its glock 19. because of the availability of glock parts and 9mm is easy to come by and still an effective round.
The 9mm is actually completely inadequate for anything more than possibly stopping a human who doesn't feel too strongly about not going down after being shot.

The MINIMUM power for an "all around" handgun is 600 lb-ft. The 9mm can NEVER achieve that. The .40 S&W can and so too can the .45 ACP when loaded to "Super" levels. Of course the 10mm can easily deliver more than 600 lb-ft of KE, as can any and all of the larger bores beyond the 10mm.

The 10mm can easily strike with 700-800 lb-ft of KE.
The .45 Super can do the same

The only .38 caliber autopistol that can even come close is the 9x25 Dillon which must be shot from a large-frame so why not simply go with the larger calibers.

Consider the total power delivery of a Glock 10mm carrying 16 shots x800 lb-ft of KE per shot...

An even BETTER alternative is a 1911 or G21 "converted" to shoot the .460 Rowland at 1,000 lb-ft of KE per shot!
How about an AR pistol in 308? They make those. I've killed 2 deer with a 9mm. One dropped dead where he stood, the other one ran off because the first shot went through both ankles. You can advocate the 50BMG all day long but if you shoot someone in the little toe it's not going to do much. Accurate shots kill more bad guys than calibers do.
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