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Old 07-30-2009, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Highlander View Post
I have heard that store bought seeds are "hybrid" seeds and will produce sterile crops. Is this true?
No ... store bought are not necessarily hybrid.

Hybrids will likely be labeled as such ... or say "F-1" somewhere on the package.

*******

and the seeds harvested from the hybrid plant will not be sterile,

... they will likely produce a plant that is much different than the parent plant (more like one of the grandparents)
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:13 AM
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Heirloom or 'open pollinated' seeds will say so; anything else I assume to be hybrid and avoid them.

Last edited by grandma; 07-30-2009 at 09:14 AM.. Reason: spelling error
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kev View Post
I agree and disagree.

Calories - yes, we need them and the greens may not provide enough.

But, if you noticed the order, nothing in the top 5 requires cooking. Everything can be eaten straight off the plant, or even eat the whole plant.

Have fun eating your dried rice without cooking it first.

The greens and squash will keep producing as you harvest it. The greens you can pull a couple of the leaves off and the plant will not be harmed. Zucchini is a high producing plant - of which the seeds are easily saved.

With the rice - have fun planting the plastic bag the rice came in. I doubt the bag will sprout rice plants.

The squash and peas are easy to harvest the seeds to have for next years garden.

With rice, you have no seeds, you have no next years garden, you have no hope of a future harvest.
I fear you have taken me out of context. The 20kg bag of rice is not for planting, it is for eating while you wait for your plants to grow. That is: if you were wise enough to organise EOTWAWKI for spring.

In short: my comment was that a garden had already to be producing and functioning before eotwawki because by the time the shtf it's all far, far too late. I've been trying on this land for three years to provide for my annual needs annually and there's just no way a person can waltz in as a newbie and succeed no matter what they've got in bob. What's the state of the ground? What's the state of the compost heap? What's the water situation? Even though I had been growing my nice greens for maybe 10 yrs before that I still haven't managed it after these 3 yrs, to sustain life requires much more planning and organisation when there's no safety net. And I would not be putting radishes in. At all. Absolute waste of space and time. As to the requirement of eating the thing raw? then it's peas and beans but far, far larger bags than you've got in Bob. And they need to go in the ground at different times if you wish to collect any seed because otherwise they'll cross pollinate.
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Old 08-13-2009, 06:19 PM
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For anne about the peppers I live in NY and the only way to grow them up here is under plastic and all clustered together they need each other to be pollinated
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:59 AM
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There are a lot of commonly available seeds that are not hybrids. They are called "standard" seeds. It will say "hybrid" on the package if they are.

Here are some nonhybrid or standard seeds that are packed in #10 cans for storage. Some of these are commonly found:
* SWEET CORN. Golden Bantam. 5 oz.
* ONION. Utah Sweet Spanish. 10 g.
* SPINACH. Bloomsdale Long Standing. 10 g.
* WINTER SQUASH. Waltham Butternut. 10 g.
* SQUASH ZUCCHINI. Black Beauty. 10 g.
* RADISH. Champion. 10 g.
* TOMATO. Rutgers. 5 g.
* SWISS CHARD. Lucullus. 10 g.
* PEA. Lincoln. 5 oz.
* BEET. Detroit Dark Red. 10 g.
* CABBAGE. Golden Acre. 10 g.
* LETTUCE. Barcarolle Romaine. 5 g.
* CUCUMBER. Marketmore 76. 10 g.
* CARROT. Scarlet Nantes. 10 g.
* PEPPER. Yolo Wonder. 5 g.
* POLE BEAN. Kentucky Wonder Brown. 5 oz.
There are many others. Garden seed catalogs discuss many others. You can request catalogs online from Burpees or Guerneys, among others. One of my favorite leaf lettuce varieties is Black Seeded Simpson which does well in hot weather and is a standard.
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:31 AM
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The reason for storing food is to be able to eat while you find more permanent solutions, like after the harvest of the first garden. This is one reason for recommending one year storage. So, the fact that radishes only take 15 to 30 days isn't as important, seems to me, as getting the most value from the garden space you have. The "three sisters" were called that because they can all be planted in the same space: Corn is started first, then after a few weeks, beans are planted to grow up the stalks and squash covers the ground around them. This discourages bugs that are specific to one plant or another and raccoons from eating the corn. These three crops are also some of the best to plant for nutrition and are among the best for storing over winter. Other plants can be started in virtually the same space: lettuce and radishes together, for instance; as the radishes are harvested, it gives the lettuce more room when it needs it. If you have unlimited garden space, you don't have to worry about it.

Here are my choices of the most important plants, mostly in order:
1. Potatoes.
2. Peas and beans
3. Squash and/or pumpkins.
4. Corn.
5. Beets and turnips. (for both greens and roots)
6. Cabbages.
7. Carrots.
8. Garlic and onions
All of them store well over the winter, which is the main reason I feel they are important. They are all high nutrition or complement each other nutritionally. The disadvantage is they have to be cooked, except the carrots and onions. They have always been valuable throughout history as winter food.

You also should be able to plant the beans and dried peas in your storage. Try to sprout them, if they sprout they can be planted. But buy standard seeds anyway. Wheat and some other grains can also be planted if you have the space for it.

Speaking of sprouting, one of the best ways to have greens over the winter is to have sprouts. It only takes 2-3 days to harvest them. Alfalfa, beans, radish, many vegetable seeds are good for sprouting and each gives a different taste for variety. Greens are very welcome during a long winter. You can also grow window chives and other herbs inside during the winter. For sprouting, you need untreated seeds. (some seeds are treated with pesticides. Those will usually be colored with a dye as a warning not to eat them.)

A warning: Don't use up all your seeds in one garden...the weather might not cooperate and you could lose all your seed.
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:51 PM
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IMO, what seeds to store/plant runs along the same lines as my food storage...I only get/store the seeds for what I will eat/use. Doesn't do me a BIT of good to have seeds for cole crops (the Brassica oleracea family), as I am allergic to them and can't even TOUCH them without breaking out in hives (not to mention what actually INGESTING them does to my insides!) I also maintain herb seeds/plants for culinary, medicinal and textile uses
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:46 PM
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It's easy to save cucumber, squash, watermelon tomato seeds and such. How about radish, spinach, carrot seeds and other smaller seeds. The book "Saving Seeds is a must for anyone who has never saved seeds. Also if you purchase heirloom seeds grow them. The germination after 3 years starts to drastically fall off.
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:50 PM
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Some other things that are important to grow.

1. Chamomile
2. Basil
3 Sage
4. Rosemary
5 Lavender
6. Stevia
7. Peppermint
8. Thyme

Each of these are easy to grow, provide an easy way to spice up a meal and has a medicinal use.
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:54 PM
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Sprouting seeds are also a consideration, You can produce living green plants with all the digestive enzymes that we need in 3 days.
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:29 PM
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Heirloom seeds, or any non-hybrid seeds, should be stored in a dark, dry, cool place. Best storage container is a home canning jar with good lid. Germination may fall off after several years for some varieties, but will still produce some plants, which then produce fresh seed. Hybrids will not produce true to type, and with modern GE plants, may not germinate or produce at all, so these varieties should be avoided.
While veggies produce lots of vitamins and minerals, fats and protein are also needed. Nuts, beans and fruit will give good supplies of these nutrients. Fruit and nut trees, berries bushes, etc. as well as beans should be a part of any garden plan.
The three sisters, beans, squash & corn, are heavy producers in most areas and provide rich supplies of vitamins, protein and minerals, a well balanced diet. That's why the "Indians" relied on them so heavily.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:45 AM
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Do you folks not think of grains such as wheat and oats as survival food. Easy to sew, not hard to harvest in small quantity (assuming you own a scythe). Lots of calories and very easy to dry and store.

I second the suggestion to grow the three sisters.
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anne36 View Post
BJJ, I agree that tomatoes are tough , especially up north without a green house. The ones I planted from seed May 1 are few and very green still.(Its been almost 3 months) I only got 4 survivors out of 20 seedlings. Of the Bell Pepper seeds, only 1 sprouted and died. Again you may need a green house, or grow lights.
Those who have problem growing tomatoes might concentrate on cherry sized tomatoes or yellow plum tomatoes instead. They usually take a shorter time to mature and produce great amounts per plant. I consider tomatoes an important plant because of their diversity in cooking. BTW, fried green tomatoes are excellent!
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnersrus View Post
What about something like tobacoo it well be worth it to a x-smoker?
Tobacco has many medical uses and can also be used in some areas as an insect repellent. My grandfather told me he occasionally used tobacco for stomach bugs by eating it. He said it would fix the situation quickly. I remember reading in an old Army manual about using it for a similar purpose. It may have been the Survival Manual.

Of course, you can always dry it and smoke it or barter it to someone that will smoke it.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:09 PM
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I would also take into account how long different seeds stay viable. Many of the crops discussed here have a 2-3 year window before the seed will no longer germinate.
We maintain a fairly large seed bank of seeds that we harvest from our crops.
These plantings are generally isolated from other like plantings to maintain the phenotype and are scouted for diseases regularly.
Hybrid seed isnt necessarily "bad" or something that should be steered away from to produce crops to consume. Should they be used for seed collection? They can be, but will not be true to what you are currently harvesting, unless you control the pollination and isolate the crop. This is something that most growers will not do.
Remember hybridization is simply man helping the natural selection process. Choosing plants that possess traits that are desireable and then crossing on a selected basis
with other varieties or back to itself until uniformity of phenotype is achieved.
Also keep in mind that most crosses are not desireable. Which is why seed companies plant huge test plots to pick plants with desireable traits.
Many of you may have detasseled corn in your youth. This is simply controlling the natural selection process.Even if you save seeds from open pollinated crops unless you control the pollination you will not necessarily create seeds that are the same as what you planted.
If it would interest folks I can tell you how we handle open pollinated crops on our farm to maintain our seeds.It is labor intensive but we think that it is worth it. Its not as easy as keeping seeds from that big sweet melon or from that tomato that did well this year. You can do that and get lucky but you can also watch vigor and yield performance and quality decline over years of what we call shotgun selection.
Let me know if you have an interest and I will try to break down what we do on a step by step basis. I just don't want to bore people or try to sound like a know-it-all.
We learn stuff every year and have been doing it for over 44 years now. The Lord knows we have had or successes and failures.

Last edited by wellspring; 01-23-2012 at 05:11 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wellspring View Post
If it would interest folks I can tell you how we handle open pollinated crops on our farm to maintain our seeds.It is labor intensive but we think that it is worth it. ...
Let me know if you have an interest and I will try to break down what we do on a step by step basis. I just don't want to bore people or try to sound like a know-it-all.
I'm interested and want to take in as much as I can, please continue.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:04 AM
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Great thread,
Here is vegetable seed longevity chart and storage tips

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/garden/07221.html

I'm with the 3 sisters crowd here
Corn , beans , squash, throw in some more beans, taters, maters and peas
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:41 AM
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In the mid-Atlantic area at least, I can't imagine why tomatoes would not make the list. They produce for several weeks and you get a lot of fruit per plant. And are relatively easy to grow. Try Rutgers or Mortgage Lifters -- you'll love them.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:13 PM
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My take away when the black death (Marburg is worst) strikes

1. Have about 1400 lbs per person stored ready to be used

2. Have various seeds that will grow in my area that are viable and vigorous

3. Have as a minimum one acre of ground that has been managed (tilled, derocked, deweeded, limed, etc.) for a number of years to improve its plant growing ability (hopefully organic)

4. Have permaculture plants growing and yielding

5. Have a means of perserving (canning. drying, salting, cool storage)

6. Have basic hand tools for when the fuel runs out. Grub hoes, shovels, maddox, scythes

My top seeds:

1. Potatoes
2. Sweet potates
3. Winter squash
4. Beans
5. Barley/wheat
6. Turnips
7. Carrots

I have bunches of others also.
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:57 AM
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ditto lanahi on beets, i know they will be a staple in our survival garden. lots of good info in this thread. blessings on you and yours Kev
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