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Old 04-06-2020, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sierra skier View Post
If PMs are such a con then why are central banks holding stockpiles of gold (and silver) and manipulating PMs so avidly to try and keep their failing fiat looking 'good'?

If PMs are so undesirable why have they been the cat's meow for as long as honey has been harvested (5000+ years)?

You know that many of us who do hold PMs already have guns, ammo, land, gardens and orchards, tools, fuel storage and the myriad of other things we prep with. It is part of our diversity.

So many of you deniers do not believe or think about having more than just stocks, bonds, land, etc. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, people can and do spread their eggs into more than one basket. If you don't like PMs so be it, but don't tell us we shouldn't do the things we want.

So you are going to trade guns and ammo because it is a better store of wealth to those outside of your circle and give them the opportunity to turn those assets against you and take what you have left?

Doesn't sound so well thought out to me, but then I am just a PMs advocate. I hope your program works out well for you.
Might be a good time to go hoard sea shells and beads too. At one time various silly societies used those as currency as well, not understanding or caring that they have no value.
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Old 04-06-2020, 08:58 PM
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Once again, it seems the conversation turns to if you have PMs you are like Scrooge Mcduck with a vault full of gold you swim through. No other preps of any kind, or very little, and if you have silver and gold you expect to buy everything you need after the SHTF with them. I acquired most of my PMs when silver was about $4 ozt. Spent about $20 a paycheck getting them when I could. I just don't understand why being prepared with a little PM is just such a controversy. It's not nor should it be an all or nothing thing, just like anything else you might use.
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Old 04-06-2020, 10:06 PM
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There's only a limited amount of gold and even silver worldwide, so that it allows for only a few troy oz. per person on earth. Meanwhile, people need increasing amounts of money for business.

Also, at least for economies during the last two centuries or so, it is also impractical to use, which is why people moved to bank notes, and later all sorts of financial instruments.

In terms of intrinsic value, it has been shown to have little across centuries, as it is too soft or too heavy to use for tools, weapons, and armor. It has been used for, among other things, dental filling, non-corrosive contact points for some equipment, and, of course, jewelry and money.

Finally, like all mediums of exchange, its value is ultimately reliant on the amount of resources available. That's why survivalists and preppers buy some for emergencies but ultimately rely on storing material resources and learning skills that will hopefully allow them to survive when the same diminish.
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Old 04-06-2020, 11:24 PM
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I don't want it on my property - especially during SHTF.

Storage is problematic. Where do you 'hide it' that cannot found with today's technology? And the very first time you attempt to purchase with it during SHTF, you've revealed your possession. For me, the fear and uncertainty that accompanies the possession of gold, is not conducive to a good nights sleep... let alone my families safety.

"I did not know that mankind were suffering for want of gold. I have seen a little of it. I know that it is very malleable, but not so malleable as wit. A grain of gold will gild a great surface, but not so much as a grain of wisdom". ― Henry David Thoreau
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Old 04-06-2020, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Rockin90 View Post
Once again, it seems the conversation turns to if you have PMs you are like Scrooge Mcduck with a vault full of gold you swim through. No other preps of any kind, or very little, and if you have silver and gold you expect to buy everything you need after the SHTF with them. I acquired most of my PMs when silver was about $4 ozt. Spent about $20 a paycheck getting them when I could. I just don't understand why being prepared with a little PM is just such a controversy. It's not nor should it be an all or nothing thing, just like anything else you might use.
If I may, you lacked awareness to not sell them at $50 an ounce and while you think you tripled your money, you actually lost most of your money in failing to realize it's a fiat nonsense metal and sell to suckers at the top. And you missed out on a lucrative decade of low priced land/houses, low priced guns, low priced stocks all that went up drastically in value while your money was tied to a declining PM...

You bought at $4.
Had you sold at the high, call it $40, in 2011, you'd have made 10x your money.
Then put that in the stock market, or bought some foreclosed land, and you'd have massive gains even with the current down turn.

Instead you rode it up to 10x gains and rode it back down to 3x gains... it's a useless PM.

Again, if I was advising someone with $5000, I'd say secure food, water, medical preps, and guns and ammo.

If they had hundreds of thousands it would be land, homesteading (agriculture, livestock etc.), and security of same, along with machines and ability to keep them going and all materials needed to sustain self sufficiency for 5 decades.

If they had millions, it would be more land, better land, bigger fortifications,and more of the same.

PMs are nonsense. Would not even be on the radar for any advice for anyone with less than tens of millions of dollars because anything under $10 million could be put to better use in land, fortress, homesteading and defense supplies.
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Old 04-07-2020, 12:44 AM
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Lead, I did sell a bunch during that time frame. Right now 29 rentals plus property in Idaho, Oregon and Arkansas is enough for me. I have plenty of everything thing else you mentioned. Besides a little work with the rentals, I was pretty much retired at 33 years old. I hunt, fish qnd ride my motorcycle. I have things set up so everyone down to my grandkids will be taking care of and I haven't hit 50 yet. If that is not doing things smartly I am not sure what to tell you.

Like said before it's not an all or nothing thing. I am sorry you or anyone else see it that.way.
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Old 04-07-2020, 03:00 AM
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People think their gold doubled in value, but really all that happened their currency halved in value.
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Old 04-07-2020, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPV View Post
I don't want it on my property - especially during SHTF.

Storage is problematic. Where do you 'hide it' that cannot found with today's technology? And the very first time you attempt to purchase with it during SHTF, you've revealed your possession. For me, the fear and uncertainty that accompanies the possession of gold, is not conducive to a good nights sleep... let alone my families safety.

"I did not know that mankind were suffering for want of gold. I have seen a little of it. I know that it is very malleable, but not so malleable as wit. A grain of gold will gild a great surface, but not so much as a grain of wisdom". ― Henry David Thoreau
I suppose some would feel the same about weapons and ammo stored at home.
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Old 04-07-2020, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Might be a good time to go hoard sea shells and beads too. At one time various silly societies used those as currency as well, not understanding or caring that they have no value.
Some folks want insurance rather than an 'investment' as their current holdings offer plenty of diversified investments and insurance is a good way to back them up.

If it is sea shells or beads doesn't matter as long as it provides the desired effect. Only time will tell for PMs.
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Old 04-07-2020, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Easily. Governments overnight declare gold and silver worthless. Market for them collapses to $0. And they require the turn in of all PMs. Why would people risk prison for holding onto bars of worthless metal? Nobody can or will accept it as payment for anything under penalty of law and it has no value anyway.

So they comply.

A few years later, governments, having rounded up all the PMs, say they once again have value.

Governments manipulate all the time.

PMs are a big fiat con. Why does their value arbitrarily fluctuate? Manipulation. Why was gold $300 / oz in 2000 but now $1600 / oz. Manipulation.
Why would you risk prison holding onto your guns ?

Gold has a 6000 year history as a commodity and means of exchange.

Why do you think every government in the world has gold reserves ?
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Old 04-07-2020, 11:08 AM
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Name a realistic scenario where you have to "escape" the USA to a nation that is going to be safer, and where would you go and how are you going to get there? There aren't any realistic scenarios and even if there was one, you wouldn't have the time for instance if nukes were launched. They'd land in 30 minutes or less.

This isn't WWII with a slowly unfolding crisis war and where you can bribe a few guards and take a train across 10 nations to safety using easily forged documents made from a typewriter. There's modern electronic coded passport controls and facial recognition on both sides of the equation, and you need a flight to get anywhere other than Canada or Mexico. You can't just bribe your way onto a flight with a bar of gold. And airways can be shut with a phone call, for even private jets. Any scenario causing you to flee will cause 300,000,000 other Americans to flee and Canada and Mexico borders will shut. And while Canada might be safer, any problem in the US will be compounded in Mexico.

So while great in theory it's not thought out clearly. Better off instead taking that wealth and having several US properties in different locations, like 10 acres in Montana and 10 acres in Louisiana. Then you're just a car-drive away and no need for gold to get there...

And if you had the type of wealth where you could amass so much gold it would even make a difference, then the money would be FAR better spent on a underground bunker or walled fortress on 10,000 acres of rural land in Wyoming. The wealthy seem to have these well-stocked survival fortresses where they've fled to. Deep bunkers or fortresses with years of supplies. WAY smarter than a bank vault full of useless gold coins and bars.
when the communists take over the US it will be time to leave. Im young enough that it can happen in my lifetime and even might be likely in my childrens' lifetimes. I have the deed to property in beijing that is probably worth hundreds of millions of dollars. The govt took the property and it is now a military base.
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Old 04-07-2020, 11:12 AM
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In my lifetime, which is really the only metric that counts, the stock market blows the doors off gold.

In fact, in the last 100 years gold has beaten the stock market in two brief periods. 1932 and for a few years from 1980-1982 approximately.

The other years in my life, it's not even close. Even with the trillions lost the market is still way ahead of gold.

https://www.macrotrends.net/2608/gol...100-year-chart
gold is a terrible investment as is cash or US bonds. My wealth is mainly in my company, but I also have several million in land, have a reasonable stock portfolio, keep 2 years of cash, and also have gold.

gold should be compared to cash and US bonds, not stocks. It is like saying you should never keep any cash, you should keep all your money in stocks because cash is a terrible investment.
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Old 04-07-2020, 11:14 AM
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If the dollar collapsed and the government was as despotic as you describe, it would enact laws to confiscate gold right along with firearms.
which form of wealth are you going to use to leave via smugglers? How many guns are you going to take with you?

You will likely convert all your assets to gold and then try to travel with it.
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Old 04-07-2020, 01:10 PM
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Why would you risk prison holding onto your guns ?
"Do you trust those in government, now and forever in the future, to not take your life, liberty, or property through the force of government?" If the answer to that question is "no," the gun control debate is over. -KrisAnne Hall

Why would our forefathers have risked prison and death?
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Old 04-07-2020, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HPV View Post
I don't want it on my property - especially during SHTF.

Storage is problematic. Where do you 'hide it' that cannot found with today's technology? .
Pretty simple, store it anywhere underground or above ground inside metal.
Inside lead pipes for instance. In the frame of a car. In a radiator that used to
heat a house. Under any type of metal pipes would work also.

The important thing is never give them a good reason to look, and they won't find it.
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Old 04-09-2020, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Rockin90 View Post
Once again, it seems the conversation turns to if you have PMs you are like Scrooge Mcduck with a vault full of gold you swim through. No other preps of any kind, or very little, and if you have silver and gold you expect to buy everything you need after the SHTF with them. I acquired most of my PMs when silver was about $4 ozt. Spent about $20 a paycheck getting them when I could. I just don't understand why being prepared with a little PM is just such a controversy. It's not nor should it be an all or nothing thing, just like anything else you might use.
Good for you, you have foresight. People don't like others having PM's because they realise they should have bought some themselves, and now they are Donald ducked.
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Old 04-09-2020, 01:08 PM
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gold is a terrible investment as is cash or US bonds. My wealth is mainly in my company, but I also have several million in land, have a reasonable stock portfolio, keep 2 years of cash, and also have gold.

gold should be compared to cash and US bonds, not stocks. It is like saying you should never keep any cash, you should keep all your money in stocks because cash is a terrible investment.

Yes gold has been a terrible investment for the last 4000 years.
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Old 04-13-2020, 10:20 PM
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$1727 per ounce - as I speak.

https://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html
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Old 04-13-2020, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bunkerbuster View Post
$1727 per ounce - as I speak.

https://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html
And you'll pay 1850 to get it, so a person could argue it's worth is always more than spot.
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Old 04-13-2020, 10:44 PM
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Good for you, you have foresight. People don't like others having PM's because they realise they should have bought some themselves, and now they are Donald ducked.
I could buy lots, and lots, and lots, of PMs. I don't. Why?

This week I bough a near new M1A rifle with 4 magazines, $200 scope, $50 mount, and $50 bag, for $1000. The rifle is worth at least 150% that amount. And will forever command that much or more.

It's extremely useful for self defense, training, and hunting in addition to being a commodity that one could liquidate in 10 minutes if necessary. Firearms are on the top 10 list of most important inventions of all time. And the M1A has few peers in it's capabilities.

It is FAR more valuable than a stack of 60 silver coins or 1/2 of a gold coin, in every possible realistic measurable metric.
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