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Old 11-05-2019, 01:53 PM
ajole ajole is offline
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
.......The minimum wage is meant to be a living wage. In 1933, five years before the first minimum wage became law, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt said: “By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level. I mean the wages of a decent living.”
Well...what do you expect a socialist to say?

1933 minimum wage was .25 per hour.
According to several online calculators, that's about $4.79 in today's money.

Bread was 7 cents a loaf, gas was 10 cents a gallon. Adjusted, that's $1.34 for bread, and $1.92 for gas. I can buy bread for 88 cents, but gas is almost $3.

Point is....things are generally BETTER than they were back then, relative to the minimum wage...IF you use a budget and don't spend your money on crap.

Which is something ALMOST all Americans do too much of.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by patcash View Post
$5.3 trillion works out to over $16k per man, woman and child, legal or illegal, in the US. Maybe Sen Warren should offer the plan on a voluntary basis and see how many of even HER supporters actually buy in.
If they gave me that money, I’d sign a contract to never go to a doctor for anything.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/xeye.gif[/IMG]

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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
Strangely you might have to be an economist.
Bull crap. All you have to do is read and understand English, and have a small freaking clue about capitalism.

She said... “The proposal would be funded by roughly $20 trillion in taxes on employers, financial transactions, and super-wealthy corporations over the next decade. Existing federal and state spending would account for the remaining $30 trillion in costs.”

Taxes on employers? Seriously. Is there still ANYONE over the age of 7 that still thinks the employer will just pay that out of their own pockets, with no labor cuts, no wage cuts, no price changes?

Taxes on financial transactions? Do the middle class NOT do those?

Super wealthy corporations? The ones with lawyers that hide the money? And who are also NOT going to pay out of their pockets.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]
The whole thread is people who don't understand the subject and are to lazy to find out. Of course complicated economics is really just basic English and yelling.

And this is why you can't have nice things.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:38 PM
Steve_In_29 Steve_In_29 is offline
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
Says who, you?



Minimum is what you should need to get by, pay the bills, buy some food, cloths, etc...anything more than that is what allows you to invest, buy toys, go on vacations, etc. THAT is why you do good and get raises...to INCREASE your quality of life, not the JUST get by!

It was supposed to be a "living wage".

https://www.investopedia.com/article...nimum-wage.asp
The minimum wage is meant to be a living wage. In 1933, five years before the first minimum wage became law, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt said: “By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level. I mean the wages of a decent living.”

The minimum wage in the United States is no longer a living wage. At $7.25, the federal minimum hasn’t kept up with the cost of living since the late 1960s, and there’s a growing movement among workers, policy analysts, state and city governments, and even some employers, to raise it.
Businesses have departed from the path of setting reasonable prices...they have been price gouging us for years under the guise of inflation, yet they have not raised the minimum wages of their employees to match.

I am one for making a profit, but when is enough enough? And I'm not saying we should all of the sudden try to play catch up and raise min wages to $15 an hour.
It is a living wage for a SINGLE person...NOT a family.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:44 PM
esheldon esheldon is offline
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Originally Posted by ajole View Post
Well...what do you expect a socialist to say?

1933 minimum wage was .25 per hour.
According to several online calculators, that's about $4.79 in today's money.

Bread was 7 cents a loaf, gas was 10 cents a gallon. Adjusted, that's $1.34 for bread, and $1.92 for gas. I can buy bread for 88 cents, but gas is almost $3.

Point is....things are generally BETTER than they were back then, relative to the minimum wage...IF you use a budget and don't spend your money on crap.

Which is something ALMOST all Americans do too much of.
Oh I hear what you are saying.

However, inflation just within the last few decades has outpaced what you discuss above.

How Does the Current Cost of Living Compare to 20 Years Ago?
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...-years-ago.asp
FAST FACT
The average cost of buying a new car in 1999 was $20,686; adjusted for inflation, that price today should be $31,874. However, according to Kelly Blue Book, the average cost of buying a new car in April 2019 was $37,185, 14% higher than the price when accounting for inflation.

The Bottom Line
Taken together, these figures indicate that, while the average person is still making the same amount of money when accounting for inflation, prices for many of the daily necessities have gone up considerably, which means that each dollar earned does, in fact, buy less than it did 20 years ago.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:50 PM
esheldon esheldon is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
It is a living wage for a SINGLE person...NOT a family.
Again, says who?

Back in those days (1930's) most men went to work and while the woman stayed home to take care of the kids. However, even back then, it pretty much took two to make a living.

Minimum wage is not based on single rate or married rate. It is just a rate.
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
The whole thread is people who don't understand the subject and are to lazy to find out. Of course complicated economics is really just basic English and yelling.

And this is why you can't have nice things.
Since you are an expert on the subject, please explain why we are all wrong.
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by puttster View Post
When they are free, hospitals will become flophouses. A place to hide out, get some food and a bed and an MRI. Homeless people, battered women, deportables, workers wanting some down time, dads with dementia, teenagers who didn't do their homework, anyone wanting some attention... just show up with backaches and stomach aches - hey, it's free medicare for ALL.

52 Trillion? we should be so lucky.
Don't forget the drugs. There are lots of prescription drugs on the streets as it is because they are "free" to certain folks that abuse the existing hospitals and doctors' offices. When you can go in, complain to the doc that your back hurts, get issued a bottle of pain killers, and take those same drugs onto the street and sell them at 10$ a pill, well, there'll be more abuse when there's even less costs associated with visiting a doctor ( or ER ) .
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:52 PM
Steve_In_29 Steve_In_29 is offline
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
Again, says who?

Back in those days (1930's) most men went to work and while the woman stayed home to take care of the kids. However, even back then, it pretty much took two to make a living.

Minimum wage is not based on single rate or married rate. It is just a rate.
Exactly...it is the rate that the PERSON earning it can afford to support THEIRSELF on. As I said it was not intended to be something to raise a family on. It is entry level wages and that's why you apply yourself and GET A RAISE/PROMOTION or learn skills to get a better job.

What's your idea...raise it so a family with 1-2-4-6-? kids can be supported by a single person earning min-wage? Pay a worker more based on their number of dependents regardless of their skills? After all who are you to say what the limit on kids should be for a family to have? And that is no different then what goes on today.

Back in the day the wives of men earning min-wage would quite often have their own income stream. Mending clothes, taking in laundry, watching kids, selling eggs/produce, etc, etc. It wasn't until hubby started earning enough money (as in no longer earning just min-wage) that wife could simply be a homemaker and live of his earnings.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:41 AM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
Again, says who?

Back in those days (1930's) most men went to work and while the woman stayed home to take care of the kids. However, even back then, it pretty much took two to make a living.

Minimum wage is not based on single rate or married rate. It is just a rate.
Yes.

It is a rate for you to START at.
(And is completely stupid and keeps a lot of people worth $4/hour from being able to work.)

This girl I knew in high school didn't want to go to college.
She worked at Dominos pizza as a high school job, so she kept on.

About the time she would of been graduating from college with debt and a degree to try to operate a business she moved to take over her own store.

~$50k in 2005ish, and she got paid to get to that point vs pay.
She started at minimum wage.

And she had real world experience.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:46 AM
esheldon esheldon is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Exactly...it is the rate that the PERSON earning it can afford to support THEIRSELF on. As I said it was not intended to be something to raise a family on. It is entry level wages and that's why you apply yourself and GET A RAISE/PROMOTION or learn skills to get a better job.

What's your idea...raise it so a family with 1-2-4-6-? kids can be supported by a single person earning min-wage? Pay a worker more based on their number of dependents regardless of their skills? After all who are you to say what the limit on kids should be for a family to have? And that is no different then what goes on today.

Back in the day the wives of men earning min-wage would quite often have their own income stream. Mending clothes, taking in laundry, watching kids, selling eggs/produce, etc, etc. It wasn't until hubby started earning enough money (as in no longer earning just min-wage) that wife could simply be a homemaker and live of his earnings.
Which is WHY I said what I said at the beginning of this back and forth between you and I. Let's recap:
It also gives you an idea of why minimum wage does not allow a family sustain a household without more than one job per adult. Inflation by way of taxation has out-paced wage growth for years!
And then you chimed in.

I never said that minimum wage was meant for a single person to raise a family on...I said, "without more than one job PER ADULT."

But as Ajole mentioned, a husband AND wife making minimum wage CAN sustain a family IF they budget correctly. Taxation by way of inflation will not allow a family to get ahead on minimum wages.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:47 AM
esheldon esheldon is offline
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Yes.

It is a rate for you to START at.
(And is completely stupid and keeps a lot of people worth $4/hour from being able to work.)

This girl I knew in high school didn't want to go to college.
She worked at Dominos pizza as a high school job, so she kept on.

About the time she would of been graduating from college with debt and a degree to try to operate a business she moved to take over her own store.

~$50k in 2005ish, and she got paid to get to that point vs pay.
She started at minimum wage.

And she had real world experience.
Okay, agree.
I never said it wasn't a rate to START at.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:23 AM
LuniticFringeInc LuniticFringeInc is offline
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when it comes to squandering tax payer dollars, no one can out compete the democrats when it comes to spending money we dont have!
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
The whole thread is people who don't understand the subject and are to lazy to find out. Of course complicated economics is really just basic English and yelling.

And this is why you can't have nice things.
Since you are an expert on the subject, please explain why we are all wrong.
That is the hilarious part. Nobody wants to admit they don't understand the subject. And so nobody will ask a person who does.

So instead everyone pretends to understand it.

I am not an expert.
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
That is the hilarious part. Nobody wants to admit they don't understand the subject. And so nobody will ask a person who does.

So instead everyone pretends to understand it.

I am not an expert.
Worse than not being a expert is you seem to lack basic math skills. This medicare for all plan does not add up. I do not know the situation in Australia so I do not comment on it. Perhaps you should follow the same concept since you obviously are unaware of the situation in the state of Health care in the US.

If you are determined that you are no expert than butt out.
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
That is the hilarious part. Nobody wants to admit they don't understand the subject. And so nobody will ask a person who does.

So instead everyone pretends to understand it.
This is true. Elizabeth Warren doesn't understand it nor is she willing to ask anyone who might know. She is simply blurting soundbites that make her appeal to people even less smart than her.

The fact of the matter is her plan is even less affordable than that so-called "Affordable Care Act" is.

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I am not an expert.
Pretty much sums up just about everything we know about you from your posts.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:37 PM
Steve_In_29 Steve_In_29 is offline
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
Which is WHY I said what I said at the beginning of this back and forth between you and I. Let's recap:
It also gives you an idea of why minimum wage does not allow a family sustain a household without more than one job per adult. Inflation by way of taxation has out-paced wage growth for years!
And then you chimed in.

I never said that minimum wage was meant for a single person to raise a family on...I said, "without more than one job PER ADULT."

But as Ajole mentioned, a husband AND wife making minimum wage CAN sustain a family IF they budget correctly. Taxation by way of inflation will not allow a family to get ahead on minimum wages.
Again, that is why it is called min-wage...you are SUPPOSED to improve so that you are not earning min-wage for an entire working life. Failure to do so is YOUR failure not the failure of min-wage.

In the post I replied to your comment very much sounded like you were inferring that they should be able to raise a family on just dad's min-wage job.
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Old 11-10-2019, 01:31 AM
esheldon esheldon is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Again, that is why it is called min-wage...you are SUPPOSED to improve so that you are not earning min-wage for an entire working life. Failure to do so is YOUR failure not the failure of min-wage.

In the post I replied to your comment very much sounded like you were inferring that they should be able to raise a family on just dad's min-wage job.
Where did I state you are not SUPPOSED to try and improve your earnings?!?

You keep looking at this through YOUR lens. As I stated and even someone else stated, a husband and wife can raise a family on minimum wage if they budget right! This does not pertain to middle class families, which I am sure you are part of, if not then in the rich category. This pertains to the family living along the poverty line or below.

And as I stated and you even quoted for heaven's sake, I said: "without more than one job PER ADULT."

A husband and wife EACH with a minimum wage job should be able to raise a family if they budget correctly. Sorry, but not everyone is fortunate like you or I...a lot of families survive and are raised on minimum wage jobs.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage
The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees.
Again, TO MY POINT...inflation has outpaced the minimum wage. There ARE poor people that live in poverty and raise families on minimum wage. Count your blessings!
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