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Old 10-29-2019, 01:00 AM
dmas dmas is offline
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Default Battery tech threatens nat gas



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http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcma.../#7059e88e7c3b

Improved batteries making new natural gas power plants uneconomic, will not pay off building costs.
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Old 10-29-2019, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmas View Post
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcma.../#7059e88e7c3b

Improved batteries making new natural gas power plants uneconomic, will not pay off building costs.
Those batteries still must be charged via some means.

Some gains might be had in peak energy storage of nuclear, solar and wind generated power, but we really need breakthroughs in solar power generation .

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Old 10-29-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dmas View Post
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcma.../#7059e88e7c3b

Improved batteries making new natural gas power plants uneconomic, will not pay off building costs.
The Forbes article is simpky quoting a green power industry puff piece written by tbe Rocky Mtn. Institute. The RMI report makes about as much sense as the Green New Deal.

These folks are not scientists or engineers, and they are not discussing primary energy sources. They are discussing energy storage devices (a good thing) and somehow they allow their views on climate change to scramble scientific principles.

It is unfortunate that we can not force journalists to pass a thermodynamics class, before they comment on energy and climate.
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Old 10-29-2019, 01:06 PM
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Could not read the article due to my ad block software needing to be disabled to have access. Not willing to do that.

What improved batteries are they talking about? I find it hard to believe that batteries are better than Natgas at power generation. Maybe short term peaking but not any kind of sustained usage.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:27 PM
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Total nonsense. Batteries have not had any change in decades. They are known chemical devices. You simply cannot store the gigawatts of power needed in this country.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:29 PM
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The problem with renewables like solar and wind is they are not 24/7. When they are down you need another source, that can be stored power but it is expensive. So the cost has to come down to make it practical. One advantage to natural gas turbines is they are pretty easy to start and stop and provide power as needed.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:43 PM
arleigh arleigh is offline
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There are serious advancements in battery technology, don't live in a hole. learn.
I am personally looking forward to the newer tech being available and replacing my lead acid batteries.
I have been pushing battery systems long before I got into solar simply because it is more stable even if one uses the grid for charging.
Electric company does not pay for damages they cause.
Being responsible for your own power is a great thing. Providing ones self with alternatives for support their own power is a good thing.
There are new battery systems that can run a whole neighborhood or a manufacturing plant.
Don't belittle something your ignorant of.
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:38 PM
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:22 PM
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There is currently a ton of money being spend on large scale battery technology, with much of it getting wasted by on foolish ideas. Turns out most politicians and policy makers are bean counters, and almost nobody understands electrochemistry.

The only thing I am confident about is when a true power grid supply leveling battery is finally developed, it will not be composed of many thousands on tiny lithium ion flashlight batteries.

A flow battery with power stored in large tanks of liquid chemicals is the most likely technology IMO. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:41 PM
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These are the same people who fall for the claim that a portable battery is a generator.
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:46 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmas View Post
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcma.../#7059e88e7c3b

Improved batteries making new natural gas power plants uneconomic, will not pay off building costs.
I doubt that within the next half-century. No doubt electric storage technology is improving rapidly. However there are some downsides to the making-use-replacement and finally disposal.

This will likely help meet growing demand and let the carbon based fuels be used where heat is necessary in industrial applications. I think the article overstates the possibilities to promote battery technology stock.
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Old 10-30-2019, 02:02 PM
ncbill ncbill is offline
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I'd love a Powerwall or similar (would save me buying new UPS units every few years) but given the price one might as well pay for the installation of a whole-house generator instead.
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Old 10-30-2019, 02:04 PM
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I'd love a Powerwall or similar (would save me buying new UPS units every few years) but given the price one might as well pay for the installation of a whole-house generator instead.
I still worry that once paid for in real cost they would need replacing.
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