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Old 12-21-2018, 04:11 PM
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Old 12-21-2018, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by biathlon View Post
Because the US Marine Corps completely dominated service rifle competitions globally for more than three decades with M-14s!!!
Yeah, right up until the point the AMU cleaned their clocks with the M16. The Marines were among the last to make the switch. I remember shooting against Dennis DeMille and the team out of Camp Pendelton back in 2000-2002. One of the squads was still shooting the M14. The entire team out of 29 Palms was shooting the M14. The team from MCRD San Diego was shooting.....you guessed it; the M14.
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Old 12-21-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
the FAL just never struck me as being as reliable, durable, or accurate as the HK/PTR91s, so i went that route instead when i was still "in to" 308 as a main caliber
I owned three, a FN and a couple of early "kit" guns, built on L1A1 kits. Reliability was never an issue with the FN, the kits on the other hand, were very annoying, and an education.

Accuracy was never what I considered good with any of them, and pretty much any FAL Ive ever shot, would vertically "string" their rounds, once the gun warmed up. They really didnt shoot "groups".

Over the years, Ive owned a number of M1A's and a couple of HK91's, along with the FAL's, and the HK91/G3 would have been my choice for an "all around" gun. I still think they have the best, all around combat sights too, and, especially at the time, were the most versatile/adaptable gun going. HK did more for bringing everyone into the future as far as combat rifles and accessories go.

For a target gun out of the lot, no doubt, the M1A. But... its still just an M1A and not much beyond that. Especially the post late 80's Springfield guns.

The FAL's are about on par with the AK's, for a general use gun, and to tell the truth, Id rather have a decent AK than the FAL.
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Old 12-21-2018, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
I owned three, a FN and a couple of early "kit" guns, built on L1A1 kits. Reliability was never an issue with the FN, the kits on the other hand, were very annoying, and an education.

Accuracy was never what I considered good with any of them, and pretty much any FAL Ive ever shot, would vertically "string" their rounds, once the gun warmed up. They really didnt shoot "groups".

Over the years, Ive owned a number of M1A's and a couple of HK91's, along with the FAL's, and the HK91/G3 would have been my choice for an "all around" gun. I still think they have the best, all around combat sights too, and, especially at the time, were the most versatile/adaptable gun going. HK did more for bringing everyone into the future as far as combat rifles and accessories go.

For a target gun out of the lot, no doubt, the M1A. But... its still just an M1A and not much beyond that. Especially the post late 80's Springfield guns.

The FAL's are about on par with the AK's, for a general use gun, and to tell the truth, Id rather have a decent AK than the FAL.
if not for ammo costs at the time id still be using a PTR/HK91 as my main rifle.. thats one of the reasons ive been putting so much consideration into the HK93, fantastic rifles
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:52 PM
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I've shot FALs, M-14s, .308 caliber M-1s and XM-21s as well. Of all the rifles I have ever shot, the XM-21 sniper rifle was the one that stole my heart. The FALs were decent rifles but they lacked accuracy and the longer reach of the XM-21 sniper rifle.

The .308 caliber M-1 Garand rifles were some sort of adaption that had once been used by the U.S. Navy, if I remember right. They were also prone to more jamming than normal .308 caliber rifles.


The one thing that I remember liking about the FALs was the adjustable recoil system on them up near the front sight. That was kind of cool. You could adjust the recoil on some FAL rifles by twisting dial on the gas feed tube.
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Old 12-21-2018, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herd Sniper View Post
I've shot FALs, M-14s, .308 caliber M-1s and XM-21s as well. Of all the rifles I have ever shot, the XM-21 sniper rifle was the one that stole my heart. The FALs were decent rifles but they lacked accuracy and the longer reach of the XM-21 sniper rifle.

The .308 caliber M-1 Garand rifles were some sort of adaption that had once been used by the U.S. Navy, if I remember right. They were also prone to more jamming than normal .308 caliber rifles.


The one thing that I remember liking about the FALs was the adjustable recoil system on them up near the front sight. That was kind of cool. You could adjust the recoil on some FAL rifles by twisting dial on the gas feed tube.
I had a 308 M1 match rifle, and never had any function issues with it. It was just as reliable as any of my 30-06 M1's.

ETA: rereading what you said, the Navy did use chamber inserts in some of their Garands when other branches went to the M14 and 7.62x51. The inserts were somewhat problematical and had a habit of coming out of the gun with an empty case on extraction. Is that what you were referring to in regards to reliability?

I read an article in, I believe it was Rifle magazine, back in the late 80's, early 90's, that the Navy's rifle team did a study on the 308 M1's (chambered in the caliber, not the insert guns) versus the 30-06 M1's and M14's, from a pure accuracy standpoint. Their conclusion was, the M1 was about 10% more accurate than the M14, and the 308 was about 10% more accurate than the 30-06, so they went with that configuration in their match rifles. Dont know how much truth there is in that, and even if there was, most, if not all but the higher class shooters, probably wouldnt even notice a difference. My 308 Match Garand and my Match M1A shot about the same, or at least, I shot them about the same.


As far as the gas adjustment on the FAL's, it wasnt there to reduce recoil, it was there so you could adjust function/reliability with ammo that might not be living up to spec. Using it to reduce recoil or to get it to shoot softer, would likely cause you to have reliability problems.
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Old 12-21-2018, 11:19 PM
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I want one as a novelty gun/fun gun but I'm not going to invest in one for any SHTF/Prepping purposes. Already got the RPK and the PTR-91 for that at the moment. Both based on battle proven platforms like the FAL. and I picked them up for cheaper than a good non-Century FAL would have been at the time.


If I decide to spend some money on a new gun it'd likely be a new Glock 20 and a MechTech 10mm carbine conversion for one over a FAL but currently my car is in need of expensive repairs and I don't know anything about replacing the serpentine belt and the other belt next to it, so I'm not buying a fun gun any time soon.
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Old 12-21-2018, 11:57 PM
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I got a basket case years ago at a good price and got it working. Fun/stressful build that took me probably 2 years to finish, wasn't a pressing need and I wanted it to be right.
I very much like the rifle and happy I was able to get it. I wouldn't get one at current pricing though. parts are drying up and what's left is expensive and wore out.
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Old 12-22-2018, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
What were you expecting? It's a battle rifle, not a target rifle. As battle rifles go it is a good solid weapon. More nations adopted it as their primary infantry rifle than adopted the M14.

As the saying goes, the Germans always had the best hunting rifle, the British the best battle rifle, and the Americans the best target rifle.
That's all fine and good from a historical perspective just not practical when it's my $ feeding it. I demand more.
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by billwilla View Post
If someone were to give me, say $1,500 - $2,000 but the stipulation that I had to buy one & ONLY one rifle, I'd probably get a bushmaster ACR. I already have AR's so buying one for that amount wouldn't make sense to me & I've always liked the ACR, except the price that is. Nothing against the FN offering either, just what I'd choose.
I'd (and did) buy a $900 Vepr in .308 and put $900 into it to have a gunsmith update it while keeping it 922r compliant. It is AK reliable and outshoots my M1A and FAL all day. Now this is a rare gun most people don't know which is a shame because it wins the .308 semi rifle war hands down in my opinion shooting the M1A, FAL, AR-10, and FNAR (however not the SCAR 17H) side by side with it.

This is my go to 762x51 rifle.

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Old 12-22-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
Once the proliferation of FAL kits, parts, ands surplus ammo dried up, the FAL priced itself out of range for many except those who enjoy the hobby and history.

I still own two FALs and DSA still offers replacement parts for mostly metric FALs which is a good thing. I picked up a few kits, so I have plenty of spare parts on hand. They're a good battle rifle and I much prefer the FAL ergonomics to the HK91 variants.

When comparing the "big three", the M1A, HK91 (et al), and the FAL are all extremely reliable. What it comes down to is ergonomics and features. I've upgraded the iron sights on my FALs, improved triggers, and optic rail (DSA) for one. They're not target rifles and too much effort (and money) is needed to get accuracy comparable to the 91 or M1A stock rifles.

Weight is relative, but they are all "heavy" by most current standards. I prefer my M1A for hunting and target shooting. I would choose my FAL between the two for combat...but I am more than comfortable with both, and would be just as comfortable with an HK91/clone.

Of course, I just picked up my POF Revolution. Gas piston system like the FAL; as accurate as an M1A, ergonomics like the FAL...but weighs less than either the FAL or MIA with a 1-6x optic and rail

Needless to say, I love both my FALs and won't be getting rid of either. They may not be the first rifle I grab, but they are still more than capable and they do get a lot of attention at the range.

ROCK6
Glad you brought the H&Ks up, Ive had my 93, forever. since the 80's. paid $300 for it, at a Divorce "fire sale" picked it and a MAC 10 up at the same time for$600, and sold the MAC for 700$ (real one not a clone) so i basically got the 93 for free... picked up the 91 clone, PTR, for about the same price, but i did have to straighten it out, usual, including re roller the bolt, up-size as it was sloppy lose.no big deal.
bout had a freakin heart attack when i saw a crusty PTR on the hook at the LGS for $1400. WAY WORSE than the one i picked up. I picked it up, shook it and it rattled........
he had a FN, about in the same ratty condition, $1800.
no gun gets better with age and use. people sell guns like they sell cars, when they start having issues, they unload em.
just set your price accordingly. no name ever automatically put food on the table. if you buy a clone or used one, be prepared to tweak it. I wont pay more than the price of a franken AR, for anything if its shot out. not saying i wont buy one to rebuild, just i wont pay premium price........

lil side not, every frankenAR i have (flat tops) have H&K style sights on em. love that sight picture.
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Old 12-22-2018, 02:55 PM
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FAL is well before its time, best ergonomics of all the cold war rifles.
Shooting hand works the mag release and the safety while the left inserters the mag and hits the bolt release. shooting hand never has to change its grip on the rifle.
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Old 12-22-2018, 03:20 PM
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People say the FAL is not accurate: groups with iron sights
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:08 PM
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Lots of rifles that I have never cared to own. The FAL is high on that list as is the AK47.
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Old 12-22-2018, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by NCalHippie View Post
Lots of rifles that I have never cared to own. The FAL is high on that list as is the AK47.
.

I had never been eager to own an AK either, but the day the AWB passed back in '94 a buddy & I decided to go buy one at our friends dad's house who was an FFL dealer out of his house. I couldn't afford an AR & the SKS like my friend got appealed to me less than the AK which was only a little more than the SKS & he had one that had a really nice blonde stock, didn't look like your typical wood stock you saw on AK's (at least back then). I still believed the hype that they weren't that accurate, just real reliable. That AK was more accurate than my friends SKS, more accurate than my mini-14's & was plenty accurate out to about 200-250yds at least. I really liked them after that. I got offered about 4-5X what I paid for it a few years later, which was one of the ideas when I bought it so I couldn't turn it down. A little while after the AWB sunset provision kicked in, I was able to buy a couple more AK's, both very accurate as well, but neither looked as nice as that 1st one I had. Again after barry got sworn in, got a good offer on them, but only sold 1. Then after Sandy Hook I was already getting more into AR's so when I got another crazy offer for my last AK, I let that one go too. Haven't had one since & the prices seem so high, especially compared to that one I bought in '94, and concentrating more on AR's & other things going on, just haven't got back into them. If they were still available dirt cheap like they were before the AWB or for the years after it sunset till about the time barry took office, I'd snatch one up again in a heartbeat. Still looking for another blonde beauty too.

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Old 12-22-2018, 10:09 PM
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Big FAL fan here.

Ergos are fantastic. Excellent reliability. Accurate enough. I like the non-reciprocating left side charging handle. I like the sites. I like the mag release design. I like the safety design and location. Takedown for cleaning is simple.
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Old 12-23-2018, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I have a couple dozen FAL 'S.

'got lucky', 'had a feeling' and SERIOUSLY upped my biannual ammo order just before SA .308 stopped being cheap.

$1 for 2 shots hurts...
The Yellow Ammo drums are cheaper.......but its 12500 rounds in one go.
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Old 12-23-2018, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by heldfast View Post
FAL used to be a lot of rifle for the $$; these days its alot of $$ for a rifle. I've got millions of illegal immigrants and snowflakes relying on my ever increasing taxes to subsidize their healthcare and education ... money is tight.
You are dang right Brother and our taxpayer funded education system is teaching the joys of Democratic Socialism AKA Global Communism and that is exactly why the Dept of Education needs to be abolished because it is really the Dept of CHICOM Indoctrination. S/FI
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Old 12-23-2018, 09:49 AM
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I will say this after researching every thing that was available in 2000 in the 7.62 as far as long arms for the average shooter, I settled on the FN FAL. I already had a AR from Bushmaster in the 5.56 and was well satisfied with its function and uses.
I know there are better long arms in the market now, but at the time the FN was the best buy for my money, there were at the time lots of parts that were reasonable in costs and magazines were and still are pretty cheap, plus you could get 30 rd magazines that would work with this rifle and yeah it does turn heads at the range with most wanting to know "what is that" and do you want to sell it.
I had the barrel cut back to just before the Bi Pod mount so I could still use the Bi Pod without reducing the effectiveness of the weapon, while making it a little better to use in the tight wooded area I live in, with a 30 rd magazine in place it can lay down some serious firepower down range unlike most other weapons at the time. I'm a left handed shooter and it seemed to me to be user friendly to a left handed shooter as well. Over all i'm very satisfied with its function and ergonomics as a battle rifle and it is my go to gun when SHTF
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Old 12-23-2018, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drobs View Post
Had a FAL - sold it in favor of a M1A.
The accuracy didn't justify the price of ammo.

Few things I didn't care for:
Trigger pull was god awful - heavy.
Sights were crap.
Adjustable gas system is a gimmick.

That being said, I still have 20 some FAL mags. If I found a screaming good deal on another one, I'd probably grab it.
I have owned and used 7 different types of the FAL over the years, and would own another as a hobby gun/ range toy .

However......there are 7.62x51mm semiautos out there that are much better suited for use as a shtf/ go anywhere/ hunting/ dmr/ security rifle in the following categories.

Overall balance with loaded 20rd mag= awkward for a field rifle. Off hand snap shooting via multiple fast moving targets is not a strong point for the FAL and other rifles are better suited in this role.

Solid optics mounting. ( The DSA HD mount proved the best solution, but adds too much weight and takes too much time to remove it for maint. ....ie too much time for field maint) You also end up with a handful of small screws that are easy to loose)

The ramp style iron sights ( rear sight assembly) leave alot to be desired when it comes to fine adjustments of different loads, and they can break off fairly easy. ( DSA has a better rear sight assembly based off the M16A2 that is a worthwhile improvement.)

Ergonomics are designed with right hand shooting in mind , but takes a nose dive via immediate transition drills/ left hand shooting. The safety switch is too far forward, but DSA does offer an extended switch that does solve the issue.....but also creates another for right handed folks. Lefties at least have a slick side up against thier rattle while carrying it.

That adjustable gas system sounds great on paper, but is over complicated for a field rifle, adds unnecessary weight near the muzzle, and needs all too frequent cleaning to keep it running at optimum levels. ( 1 reason why the Army favored the T44 over the T48).

None of mine made our consistent accuracy requirements either. All of them would start to string rds once they were hot enough. As for a cold bore shot, I wouldn't use any of them for the 631 yard shot at the speed goat in pic below either. ( In short, none of them met my requirements for a DMR/ hunting rifle.


With that said, it would be fun to have one as a range toy again, only mine would be chambered in 243 instead of 7.62x51mm. Imo. .....243 is a better suited cartridge for a FAL.

11B
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