Question for Christian Believers - Page 3 - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2019, 11:04 PM
ActionJackson's Avatar
ActionJackson ActionJackson is offline
Longing For True Liberty
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southern Utah
Age: 59
Posts: 29,243
Thanks: 45,810
Thanked 53,386 Times in 18,533 Posts
Awards Showcase
Top Poster Top Poster 
Total Awards: 2
Default



Advertise Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ready?mom View Post
I am also a non-believer and I also came to that conclusion on my own. I was raised in the Baptist church and my parents also took me to other churches and sent with my friends to other churches. They wanted me to be exposed to other religions as much as possible. I came to realize in my 20’s that I did not believe. In the last several years I have seen so many people (some in this group) claiming to be good Christians living in a very un-Christ like way. If one truly believes, wouldn’t they want to live a life as close to the way they view Christ lived his as possible? This hypocrisy is what drives people away, in my opinion.
We're sinners before we accept Christ and we're sinners after we accept Him. The best we can do is repent of our sins and ask for forgiveness and try again. There's a thing called sanctification that brings a believer closer to living and acting like a Christian over time. When we make enough mistakes we finally start to learn NOT to make them anymore and we become just a little more Christ-like. But Christians are humans who are easily distracted by the temptations and distractions of the world and we will stumble over and over and over again. We just have to keep getting back up and trying to learn from our mistakes and try to focus on Christ and His message. It's why it's so important to stay close to other Christians. Fellowship!! Together, we can be good examples to each other and withstand the wiles of the devil and his army of demons, atheists, naysayers, doubters, and antagonists. We're called to "put on the gospel armor." It's sometimes easier said than done.
__________________
Seek The Truth!!!
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to ActionJackson For This Useful Post:
Old 09-10-2019, 11:23 PM
Mazarine33's Avatar
Mazarine33 Mazarine33 is offline
rrrrribbitt
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 189
Thanks: 511
Thanked 470 Times in 151 Posts
Default

Faith begins where rationality ends. One can reason oneself in circles, and never have faith no matter how badly they might want it. At some point, one has to make Kierkegaard's leap and choose to believe.

Asking for a rational reason may not garner a rational reply.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mazarine33 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 03:34 AM
OhioMan's Avatar
OhioMan OhioMan is offline
It's ok to be white
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 32,145
Thanks: 90,127
Thanked 90,992 Times in 24,031 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson View Post
"I've thought about the possibility of God lately but can you give me any good reason I should become a Christian? Is there any rational reason I should consider becoming a Christian?

"Sir. That's a good question and I don't know that I have a good answer. What's rational to me may not be rational to you. So the best I can do is share with you why I believe it's rational."

"I grew up in a household that spoke of God and Jesus and those discussions caused wonderment with me but as I aged, I soon forgot them and turned to other interests." "It wasn't until I found myself in the depths of darkness and despair -- with my back against the wall -- that I got on my knees and asked for God's help. I didn't think He would listen to a lowlife like me but I realized a couple of years later that He actually had heard my plea."

"Without getting into much more detail, I will only say that He led me away from a dark and self-destructive life and into a life of light and clarity."

"When I arose from my self-inflicted stupor, I began to see the world in a different way. I noted the fact that there were living creatures all around me that could breath, walk, make noise, see, communicate, and move in unique ways. I saw the moon and the stars and the various designs of the universe. It dawned on me that all this motion and sound and life was no mistake. It couldn't have just happened for no reason."

"So long story short, sir -- here was my initial rationale for believing in God: It made more sense to me that all these designs were designed and that if they were designed that there had to be a Designer. The eyeball, the living cell, the living creature. All of these effects had to be caused. That conclusion seemed more rational to me than to believe they all popped into existence by shear mistake or happenstance. It seemed rational to believe that there had to be a First Cause that was uncaused and, thus, eternal. If the first cause had been caused then it would not have been the first cause. So there had to be an uncaused cause. That seemed more rational to me than to believe absolute nothingness gave way to somethingness."

"But why didn't I just accept that there was some sort of divine cause or designer? Why did I accept Christ and become a Christian? I return to my initial search for help and the method I used to seek that help. That is -- I continued to pray. It seemed rational that if my prayer had been answered all of those years ago that they would continue to be answered in the here and now as well. So I prayed for answers and for truth. I prayed for guidance and for deeper understanding. As a result, I was led to the Bible. I was also led to some other spiritual books (one by M. Scott Peck and another by Kahlil Gibran) but the Bible stole my attention and touched my heart."

"So sir ... I realize that my belief may not seem rational to you but it's perfectly natural and rational to me." "It's a personal thing that has to be experienced by each individual on individual terms. My only advice to others is to humble themselves, get on their knees, and ask that the Holy Spirit will awaken them to truth. The more they ask for truth the more truth they will find."
Beautiful AJ!

I really liked how you only told of your personal experience at the same time respected their possible situation. You didn't call them ignorant, dumb etc., or other insulting remarks that would only cause them to back away.

Excellent
__________________
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to OhioMan For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 03:36 AM
OhioMan's Avatar
OhioMan OhioMan is offline
It's ok to be white
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 32,145
Thanks: 90,127
Thanked 90,992 Times in 24,031 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
All the cool kids are Christians.
and those amazing Pot-Luck dinners
__________________
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to OhioMan For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 07:19 AM
OhioMan's Avatar
OhioMan OhioMan is offline
It's ok to be white
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 32,145
Thanks: 90,127
Thanked 90,992 Times in 24,031 Posts
Default

Okay I'm going to answer my own question LOL

Quote:
They mention they happen to be an atheist. Suddenly the stranger looks at you and say's "I've thought about the possibility of God lately but can you give me any good reason I should become a Christian?
When I talk to Atheist the very FIRST thing I do is L-i-s-t-e-n before I say a word. The spoken words as well as the unspoken words. Think of help from the Holy Spirit, trust Him, he's very good and insightful and will help.

A) Listening shows you respect them and aren't just beating them down me=smart, you=dumb.
It's atheist number 1# complaint against believers. <Arrogance>

(B) Allow the Holy Spirit time to fill your mind and heart. Trust those sudden nudges that pop into your mind. A few Months ago I was talking to a lady who told me that if there was a "God" she hates him. The word "Loss" popped into my mind, I asked her if she "lost" someone lately, she said yes, her mother two Months ago. She became totally disarmed and relaxed and we had a amazing conversation about God.

Atheist: All of them, ALL OF THEM who confess they don't believe in God aren't being completely honest. Remember they have a mustard seed of faith that is baked into to them even though they will stomp their feet in complete denial. Just watch how the Holy Spirit will bring that seed to the surface in good, honest conversation. The whole "science stuff" is nothing more than a babies rubber pacifier to help keep them calm when that seed of faith starts to rage within them. Don't worry about knowing the latest scientific garbage that is supposed to prove there is no God. It's just a distractive side-bar that has no real value to them, it's a false shield.

Personal Engagement: I always talk about how I knew something wasn't right, not natural in my being. Nothing satisfied, I wasn't whole until I met the Lord. Trust me, they will relate because without God there is no peace, no harmony, no lasting joy in their spirit. They know this very well but typically don't admit it. (See AJ's story above, perfect)

-Don't suggest a book: Sounds like a blow-off and chances are they won't read it anyway. Be prepared to share the greatest story ever told. Present the gospel message that you should know yourself.

-Don't suggest they talk to your religious more knowledgeable friend: It sounds like you are clueless yourself and need help explaining something you should know as a born-again believer.

-Don't suggest they go to your church for truth: Sounds like you are selling a membership drive. Remember we are talking about the saving gospel message and not joining our wonderful church. You will reduce the message to a sneaky religious trick to raise attendance. Most aren't 10 years old and have seen this a million times and it will only take away your credibility. If they ask, then yes invite them.

Do- Invite them to have another conversation. Remember you aren't God or the Holy Spirit. If they aren't truly ready or aren't being called by God (John 6:44) then be prepared to be rejected.

Do-Pray about them later. We never have any idea what God is doing behind the scene. We are just playing a VERY tiny part. The Holy Spirit is already do all the heavy lifting. It's amazing what happens in the spiritual realm when you point your prayers at someone, something get's released. It's why we are told to pray without ceasing..it really is POWERFUL!!!

OM...
__________________
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to OhioMan For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 10:48 AM
PeterEnergy's Avatar
PeterEnergy PeterEnergy is online now
Rom 14:1, 13; Jam 4:11-12
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 15,892
Thanks: 11,178
Thanked 29,165 Times in 10,228 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioMan View Post
The whole "science stuff" is nothing more than a babies rubber pacifier to help keep them calm when that seed of faith starts to rage within them.
Oh, I forgot about the probabilities! While some deny math is a science, the odds of just 8 prophecies being fulfilled by Jesus is statistically remote. What about 356 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ?
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PeterEnergy For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 10:58 AM
OhioMan's Avatar
OhioMan OhioMan is offline
It's ok to be white
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 32,145
Thanks: 90,127
Thanked 90,992 Times in 24,031 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Oh, I forgot about the probabilities! While some deny math is a science, the odds of just 8 prophecies being fulfilled by Jesus is statistically remote. What about 356 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ?
Those are excellent Peter!

Oddly most just play like they want an intellectual argument pro/con. They don't, they want to fix that missing something they feel to their core.
__________________
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to OhioMan For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 11:00 AM
PeterEnergy's Avatar
PeterEnergy PeterEnergy is online now
Rom 14:1, 13; Jam 4:11-12
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 15,892
Thanks: 11,178
Thanked 29,165 Times in 10,228 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioMan View Post
Do- Invite them to have another conversation. Remember you aren't God or the Holy Spirit. If they aren't truly ready or aren't being called by God (John 6:44) then be prepared to be rejected.
This reminds me of a theory on political persuasion. I trust it works on religion also. The theory is that it takes someone being exposed to an idea that is valid but goes against their thinking 20x before they will accept it.

You never know where you are on the spectrum of their 20 introductions to this idea.

OhioMan, as I read your answer, one thing above all came through peace. Dealing with someone who does not share the Spirit need not be contentious. Indeed, if one resorts to insults they are proving to the atheist there is no special, divine power at work here.

The peace you convey is attractive to all rational people. It is the Fruit of the Spirit. It is not about theology. As my wife is found of saying; it's not about religion but relationships. I'd ask the atheist if he ever meditates? Does that make him feel more at peace?

Your post started off talking about listening. All atheist, like all believers, are not all the same. Some atheists are militant, foaming at the foam. Others have accepted atheism by default, never really delving into the subject. You also mentioned arrogance. Many atheists do not want a conversation and resort to name calling from the start, e.g., anyone who believes in God is weak or stupid or both. If that is the case, you probably cannot do more than plant a seed of doubt in their mind. I saw a great video about getting atheists to admit one thing that is doubtful; namely, the absurdity of the Big Bang, something from nothing.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to PeterEnergy For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 11:22 AM
cat_1978 cat_1978 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 1,601
Thanked 1,935 Times in 1,068 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
This reminds me of a theory on political persuasion. I trust it works on religion also. The theory is that it takes someone being exposed to an idea that is valid but goes against their thinking 20x before they will accept it.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to cat_1978 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-11-2019, 11:45 AM
PeterEnergy's Avatar
PeterEnergy PeterEnergy is online now
Rom 14:1, 13; Jam 4:11-12
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 15,892
Thanks: 11,178
Thanked 29,165 Times in 10,228 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat_1978 View Post
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is God.
I think you missed the qualifier in the statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
The theory is that it takes someone being exposed to an idea that is valid but goes against their thinking 20x before they will accept it.

For us, there is one God, the Father
1 Corinthians 8:6 (VOICE)
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-11-2019, 12:12 PM
cat_1978 cat_1978 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 1,601
Thanked 1,935 Times in 1,068 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
I think you missed the qualifier in the statement. ... "to an idea that is valid"
[/COLOR]
So how do you know without fail if an idea is valid or not?

Quick reply to this message
Old 09-11-2019, 01:06 PM
PeterEnergy's Avatar
PeterEnergy PeterEnergy is online now
Rom 14:1, 13; Jam 4:11-12
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 15,892
Thanks: 11,178
Thanked 29,165 Times in 10,228 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat_1978 View Post
So how do you know without fail if an idea is valid or not?
Logic, the art of the non-contradictory identification of truth.

Given an authoritative document like the Bible, there is an obvious hierarchy of confidence or validity.
  1. Explicitly commanded or prohibited
  2. Implicitly commanded or prohibited
  3. Implicitly suggested AND not implied to be prohibited.
  4. Implicitly prohibited BUT implied as a suggestion.
You wrote a 5th order statement, not found but contradicts a 1st order statement, "For us, there is one God, the Father."
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-11-2019, 01:10 PM
cat_1978 cat_1978 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 1,601
Thanked 1,935 Times in 1,068 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Logic, the art of the non-contradictory identification of truth.

Given an authoritative document like the Bible, there is an obvious hierarchy of confidence.
  1. Explicitly commanded or prohibited
  2. Implicitly commanded or prohibited
  3. Implicitly suggested AND not implied to be prohibited.
  4. Implicitly prohibited BUT implied as a suggestion.
You wrote a 5th order statement, not found but contradicts a 1st order statement, "For us, there is one God, the Father."
Logic? Great... (at least you recognized it is just an art, not science).

It worked wonders with the atheists (and heretics)...

Quick reply to this message
Old 09-11-2019, 01:50 PM
PeterEnergy's Avatar
PeterEnergy PeterEnergy is online now
Rom 14:1, 13; Jam 4:11-12
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 15,892
Thanks: 11,178
Thanked 29,165 Times in 10,228 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat_1978 View Post
Logic?
Cool colors.

Yes, my friend, logic. Do you remember us talking in the last week about how science progressed in the West because of Jesus saying God is good? (I cannot recall what thread that was in.)

Anyway, a corollary to Jesus statement is that we can figure out the laws of nature. This verse from 1 Corinthians also inspired many of the great scientists of the past, especially Galileo and Newton with their mathematical precision. Laws of Motion are correct BECAUSE God designed the universe logically. Otherwise, simple mathematical formulas would not match observation, e.g., v = d/t, F = ma, (mv)1 = (mv)2 and how these formulas are integrally related to each other (distance, velocity, acceleration, and force, momentum and work). Thank God for logic. Thank you Aristotle!

Cat, you must know the Catholic Church has educated more people in the last 2,000 years than any institution going into the 20th century, when government usurped this important role. It's something to be proud of and teaching Aristotle was not condemned but embraced by the church. Logic is our friend. It allows faith to be tested and conclude passing has certain implications worthy of consideration.


For God is not a God of disorder but of peace
1 Corinthians 14:33
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-11-2019, 02:06 PM
cat_1978 cat_1978 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 1,601
Thanked 1,935 Times in 1,068 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Cool colors.
I used the colors because Logic is a clown. Sometimes it gives you correct conclusions, sometimes it gives you wrong conclusions all under a mask that hides the validity of its real conclusions (Logic does not show anybody which conclusion is truly and definitive the correct one). Just like a clown that is serious or laughing depending on the joke. Sometimes a clown laughs when it should be serious and sometimes he stop laughing and becomes serious when he should actually laugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Yes, my friend, logic. Do you remember us talking in the last week about how science progressed in the West because of Jesus saying God is good? (I cannot recall what thread that was in.)
Please show which ONE of the two conclusions below is wrong on a logical level. And why.

"I and my Father are one." = Conclusion: God is in Jesus but Jesus is not God
Show me the logical failure to this conclusion.

"I and my Father are one." = Conclusion: Jesus is God
Show me the logical failure to this conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Logic is our friend. It allows faith to be tested and conclude passing has certain implications worthy of consideration.[/B]
Peter, You are 100% correct and 100% wrong in this statement. Proof is all the different interpretations of God's Word, not a few that are perfect in logic but somehow contrary to each other.

Please detail why both these statements in Blue are logically correct:

This statement is 100% correct: "Logic is our friend. It allows faith to be tested."

This statement is 100% wrong: "Logic is our friend. It allows faith to be tested."




Logic dictates you should laugh at logic:


Quick reply to this message
Old 09-11-2019, 02:34 PM
PeterEnergy's Avatar
PeterEnergy PeterEnergy is online now
Rom 14:1, 13; Jam 4:11-12
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 15,892
Thanks: 11,178
Thanked 29,165 Times in 10,228 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat_1978 View Post
Please detail why both these statements in Blue are logically correct:

This statement is 100% correct: "Logic is our friend.[/B] It allows faith to be tested"

This statement is 100% wrong: "Logic is our friend.
[B]It allows faith to be tested"
I don't understand what you are asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat_1978 View Post
Please show which ONE of the two statements below is wrong on a logical level. And why.

"I and my Father are one." = God is in Jesus but Jesus is not God
Show me the logical failure to this conclusion.

"I and my Father are one." = Jesus is God
Show me the logical failure to this conclusion.
You are going against a 1st order explicit statement, For us, there is one God, the Father 1 Corinthians 8:6 (VOICE). Choosing instead, to make a 3rd order inference to over-ride an explicit command. This is why the RHS equivalence is not logical. You are reading more into it than is there (to support your theology).

I was watching Star Trek TNG the other day. Worf and his son were in conflict. Worf said the rule was for the son to put his clothes in the hamper. The son denied this on the basis that it was what the father said yesterday; that the father did not re-state the rule today, which he took to mean the rule no longer applies. Not very logical but is akin to what you are doing here. The 1st order, explicit command to put his clothes in the hamper cannot logically be superseded by invoking a 3rd order inference that the rule only applies if stated daily.

Did you read my post about cultural Bibles this week? Evidently the man who had to bury his father before following Jesus was invoking an expression. "I have to bury my father first" = not today or when hell freezes over.

The phrase 'so-and-so and I are one' has a long history of meaning the 2 are of the same mind, same way of thinking. Often this is used against desperate children, hoping one parent will pivot to their side. So, when it is said, your mother and I are one on this matter, it means there is no court of appeals. It does NOT literally mean the two are one.

Compare these verses to John 6:56. Does it mean that we are Jesus, and therefore, (using your inference) God? I trust your answer is no; that we are not Jesus and not God even though we abide in each other.


If you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you will abide in Me and I will abide in you.
John 6:56 (VOICE)
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-11-2019, 02:43 PM
cat_1978 cat_1978 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 1,601
Thanked 1,935 Times in 1,068 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
I don't understand what you are asking.



You are going against a 1st order explicit statement, For us, there is one God, the Father 1 Corinthians 8:6 (VOICE). Choosing instead, to make a 3rd order inference to over-ride an explicit command. This is why the RHS equivalence is not logical. You are reading more into it than is there (to support your theology).

I was watching Star Trek TNG the other day. Worf and his son were in conflict. Worf said the rule was for the son to put his clothes in the hamper. The son denied this on the basis that it was what the father said yesterday; that the father did not re-state the rule today, which he took to mean the rule no longer applies. Not very logical but is akin to what you are doing here. The 1st order, explicit command to put his clothes in the hamper cannot logically be superseded by invoking a 3rd order inference that the rule only applies if stated daily.

Did you read my post about cultural Bibles this week? Evidently the man who had to bury his father before following Jesus was invoking an expression. "I have to bury my father first" = not today or when hell freezes over.

The phrase 'so-and-so and I are one' has a long history of meaning the 2 are of the same mind, same way of thinking. Often this is used against desperate children, hoping one parent will pivot to their side. So, when it is said, your mother and I are one on this matter, it means there is no court of appeals. It does NOT literally mean the two are one.

Compare these verses to John 6:56. Does it mean that we are Jesus, and therefore, (using your inference) God? I trust your answer is no; that we are not Jesus and not God even though we abide in each other.


If you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you will abide in Me and I will abide in you.
John 6:56 (VOICE)
Conclusion 1: You are logically 100% correct in the statements above.

Conclusion 2: You are logically 100% wrong in the statements above.


Also:

Please detail why both these Conclusions in Blue are logically correct but only one is truly and definitive (eternally) correct:

This statement is 100% correct: "Logic is our friend. It allows faith to be tested."

This statement is 100% wrong: "Logic is our friend. It allows faith to be tested."
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-11-2019, 02:56 PM
cat_1978 cat_1978 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 1,601
Thanked 1,935 Times in 1,068 Posts
Default

Also one can argue logically that Logic (as a perfect science) does not exist (it is a lie, deception) because it is not perfect, it does not give perfect solutions but indeed it gives weak solutions and many times plain wrong. Since Logic is not perfect science then it loses its very meaning of existence: It does not exist.

The Universe (as part of Creation) is partial logical made. But judging an object by a part of it will never give correct conclusion about what the full picture is. Please read my Post# 31 for details on this.

Quick reply to this message
Old 09-11-2019, 03:25 PM
AlgoRhythms's Avatar
AlgoRhythms AlgoRhythms is online now
Old Noob
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Pennsylvania woodlands or the Southwest desert
Posts: 7,084
Thanks: 4,522
Thanked 9,649 Times in 3,958 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat_1978 View Post
Because rational thought defies rational thought so when somebody thinks he is rational but he excludes God, he is deceived ("The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."). And we have a moral duty to show that they are deceived and how. In other words God asked us in the Bible to do it (to try to save the unbeliever). It is a Command.

Also please read this if you would like. It is something I wrote in a book of mine:

"Truth and Man’s Power of Understanding

Okay, an answer to my earlier question as to why. Because Scripture compels the believer to enlighten the non believer. Have I understood your response correctly?

But sorry, I can't agree with you about rationality. You are starting from a first principle that you claim is axiomatically true: God exists. I don't accept that as a given truth.

I don't wish to argue this point, because for you, there is no argument. You already know and anything that disagrees is wrong.

I appreciate you including the large body of text which I've cut from this response. But I suspect it was included not as a basis for discussion but as a lecture.

Honestly, I don't wish to be your pupil. Our world views are so far apart that the chasm can't be spanned.

I wish you well in your search.
Quick reply to this message
Old 09-11-2019, 03:31 PM
cat_1978 cat_1978 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,845
Thanks: 1,601
Thanked 1,935 Times in 1,068 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
Okay, an answer to my earlier question as to why. Because Scripture compels the believer to enlighten the non believer. Have I understood your response correctly?

But sorry, I can't agree with you about rationality. You are starting from a first principle that you claim is axiomatically true: God exists. I don't accept that as a given truth.

I don't wish to argue this point, because for you, there is no argument. You already know and anything that disagrees is wrong.

I appreciate you including the large body of text which I've cut from this response. But I suspect it was included not as a basis for discussion but as a lecture.

Honestly, I don't wish to be your pupil. Our world views are so far apart that the chasm can't be spanned.

I wish you well in your search.
Our worldviews will become identical once we are both dead. That is an Absolute Truth.
Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net