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Sniper Rifle ?

11K views 97 replies 39 participants last post by  hatchet jack 
#1 ·
What would be your recommendation for a "sniper rifle" ? Not a 50 cal. to hit a target 2 miles away ... just an ordinary / run of the mill rifle that could be used reliably for sniping. Also, what scope / other furniture would you suggest ?
 
#3 ·
Ive had a number of Remington and Savage bolt guns that were basically just "varmint" guns, that shot great, as they came, right out of the box. Put a reasonable scope on them and Id say with something like that, you'd probably be good to go for anything you might have in mind.

"Anything" can be used to snipe with if need be, and you dont have to dump a bunch of money into things, to make it work. If you look at a lot of older military "snipers", they were nothing fancy, and simply standard rifles fitted with a scope.

Something to consider about extras and ad ons that are supposed to improve things. A lot of times those things actually degrade performance than improve it. It'll look cool though.

Then you have the "capability" thing. The people who usually benefit from tuned guns that wring out the accuracy potential are those who will swap your gun for theirs in a match, and still clean your clock with no troubles. You cant by "skill".

If you have a decent shooter, Id spend the money on ammo and practice, and from field positions, and youll be way better off, than someone who dumps the same money into the gun.
 
#4 ·
While I appreciate the idea of a good bolt action gun and understand that they should have a little more speed and accuracy, I would rather have a semi auto magazine fed rifle. Faster follow up for the average person, more capacity, and a 2” group at 300 yards instead of 1 1/2” isn’t that big of a deal when we are talking about a man sized target.
 
#30 ·
1st off, thanks for not utilizing that silly " S" word, as it is over used, and 100 % abused. The average joe should be more interested in how best to avoid and if need be ...counter a threat such as this. ( Active as well as passive measures ) . My opinion.

As to your post..........

If you want the absolute best semiauto precision rifle, follow the link below........

https://www.gaprecision.net/custom-precision-rifles/gap-10-g2.html

7.62x51mm or 6.5 CM. ( 2nd pic below )

They will consistently outshoot anything we have / had at work. All versions of the M24, M14, M110, SR25, etc........

With that said....... another example of mine ( More of a DMR in all respects) still produces a 20rd group at 200 meters (3rd pic below ) right at the 50k rd mark. ( Prone unsupported position with decent ammo designed for hunting.) Rifle is an my M14S

1st pic = another more recent addition of mine. LRB M25 Tanker with Sadlack extended 0 moa rail installed. I typically run a thermal imaging weapon sight off of this rifle, as I can actually locate, and identify things at well over 300 meters......day or night. ( Hint.....Catch um during thier ingress)

http://www.lrbarms.com/m14-rifles.html

Note: My M14 types all sport 18.5 inch tubes, and built with reliable function in all types of weather in mind. Also see much more use in the field as hunting rifles, 3 gun, rng, as well as rifle courses I attend every year. Not all that interested in man sized stationary targets, but have shot feral pigs from spittin distance to well over 650 meters.

Note: All 3 rifles mentioned here are custom built boom sticks, and the TIWS ( mentioned and not shown) costs more than all 3 of them.

You didn't mention a budget as yet. ( The low cost route has already been covered here, and where bolt guns pop up.) If the average joe makes 52k per year, a lower cost bolt gun may be more appealing. ( See post 27 above)

11B
 

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#5 ·
OP, the replies from AK103K and kmussack is among the best advice you are going to get.
 
#6 ·
just an ordinary / run of the mill rifle that could be used reliably for sniping.

Looks like you answered the question yourself.

Any reliable gun that will shoot MOA, in a large enough caliber to be effective at your maximum range, with a solid bright scope that is either easy to adjust for range, or has some sort of BDC reticle, and a stock that fits you...well, that's a sniper rifle, if you are a sniper. :thumb:
 
#9 ·
What would be your recommendation for a "sniper rifle" ? Not a 50 cal. to hit a target 2 miles away ... just an ordinary / run of the mill rifle that could be used reliably for sniping. Also, what scope / other furniture would you suggest ?
If you had the skillset and ability to hit a target 2 miles away you wouldn't need to ask such a silly question .
Two miles is not " rifle " distance it is get on the radio and call for fire distance . Or simply go the other way and leave them well enough alone .
In all fairness FarmDad, he did say "Not a 50 cal. to hit a target 2 miles away ...". Just sayin'.

Al
 
#10 ·
The extreme military snipers like 300 Win Mag. I wanted a 1 mile to 2k yard plinker, but didn't want the heavy recoil and I can't stand an M-break.

I opted for 7mm Rem Mag in a Remington 700 platform. Nearly every gun will shoot the Berger ELD 160's and they have phenomenal BC's....good to well over 1k yards. If you get a custom barrel, the 195's are just unbelievable.....



Great reference on the 195: http://www.bergerbullets.com/7mm-195gr-extreme-outer-limits-elite-hunter/




.......
 
#11 ·
I'd just do it like these guys. They like the Savage model 10. Then you have a good hunting rifle that can also serve as a "sniper" rifle when the zombies come.

The "$1,000" in the titles includes the rifle, scope, rings and anything else they bought to build the gun.


.

.
 
#12 ·
Rem 700 LR, 7mm RM, Vortex 6.5-24x44 (30mm), Timney Elite Trigger (8oz), 20+ MOA Base, 14lb,2oz.

$1,200 for the whole enchilada, cause I did my own bedding. With stock barrel it would shoot the heck out of the 168's.

My best group of 5 were..... wait for it....... 0.44"


Pains me that I sold it...... for $800. After my motorcycle crash with broken back, I just couldn't take the recoil. Slowly, I am getting back in the sport.


 
#14 ·
So easiest way to have a sniper rifle based on your data is to purchase either a Winchester or Browning bolt action with the BOSS configuration. 243, 7mm-08, 270, 30-06, WSMs, 7mm Mag, 300 mag, 338 mag. All are available on Gun Broker. The BOSS system allows you to select your bullet weight/configuration/load and dial the harmonics of the barrel to give you 1 MOA and less. All three of mine give one very small ragged whole. It takes time to fine tune it but easily done. Rifles between 500 and 1200 dollars every day. Often with high dollar scopes. You can still buy the CR end that reduces the blast back to normal loudness on most rifles if you so desire.
 
#15 ·
I would suggest a decent semi-automatic rifle with a decent scope mounted on it. The rifle should shoot a medium weight and diameter bullet of match grade or high quality ammunition for consistent accuracy. The round is zeroed to your eyesight, rifle and scope after the rifle is broke in with the shooting of between 500 to 1,000 rounds through it.

The breaking in period of the rifle allows the moving parts to mesh and "form fit" to each other as they move back and forth. After about 500 rounds the rifle, with a glass bedded barrel in it, should be able, at 25 yards/meters, to deliver cloverleaf or what appears to be single shot bullet holes when 3, 4 or even 5 shot groups are fired. This kind of accuracy is capable when a properly trained shooter is behind a good rifle loaded with good ammo and a decent scope.

So it all comes together as training of the shooter, a good rifle, a good caliber/millimeter, good ammo and a good scope. That's what makes a sniper system.

Calibers for a good sniper rifle include: 6.5 Grendel, .308/7.62 NATO National Match, 30.06 Armor Piercing Ammo (This was the round that many USMC snipers preferred to use since WW2 on for their M-1D, M-1C and scoped bolt action rifles like the Remingtons and older military rifles.)

If you have a budget restriction, do like the Filipino Marines did. They opted to use reconditioned M-16 rifles in .223 caliber using 62 grain bullets with scopes mounted on them for sniping. They use these rifles out to about 750 or 800 meters and are getting decent results with them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Scout_Sniper_Rifle

http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Marine_Scout_Sniper_Rifle
 
#16 ·
The OP needs to realistically assess his knowledge, skill and ability and to define his requirement. In my younger days I shot high Expert or low Master scores with an M1 Garand Type 2 National Match firing M72 ammo issued on the line and we shot iron sights back to 1000 yards. Back then I shot very acceptable scores at Infantry trophy firing the Garand with iron sights back to 600 yards and usually scored enough hits on all of my targets to score bonus points.

I fired on the Atlantic Fleet team which first fired the M16 at Camp Perry in the NTI and NTT, using spun and selected XM287 68-grain heavy ball leftover from the Stoner 63 program. Today's 5.56mm rifles and ammo are better than we had in the early 1970s. But any way you slice it the penetration and lethality of any 5.56mm ammunition is going to be very marginal compared to a cal. .30 or 7.62mm platform, once the range appreciably exceeds 300 yards or meters. The difference between 5.56 and 7.62mm or cal. .30 is VERY apparent once you get to 500 and back. You demonstrate this easily by counting how many rounds it takes to chew a grenade sized hole through eight inches of solid masonry with your poodle shooter versus a Garand firing WW2 era APM2. About three 30-round magazines vs. three 8-round clips if you shoot a good group.

The trained military sniper will choose the platform suited to his AO and experience. Because you are asking the question, I presume you are new to this and wanting to learn from others here, so I offer the opinion of an old fudd. If looking for a safe and reliable rifle which is accurate enough to provide 300 meter head shots approaching 0.9 level of confidence in a first round hit and to also perform hunting duty, an accurized Garand, M1A, or AR10 can all do the job. The FAL and G3 less so in my experience.

A good boltgun is also a viable choice, but requires much more training and practice to become proficient. For a new shooter the semi-auto is easier to master. But you then are more limited in ammunition selection. If handloading ammunition for it you must become knowledgeable and technically proficient, because novice level experimentation isn't going to cut it.

My two cents.
 
#17 ·
I am assuming, since this is a survivalist board, that we are talking about after the SHTF. Based on that I offer this:

First of all, if the SHTF I would rather not be shooting at folks at great distances. It seems that it would be best to avoid that scenario. Also, if it wasn't SHTF it would be hard to prove self defense if you are sniping folks.

Second, virtually any centerfire hunting rifle with a quality scope would probably fit the bill if you just had to shoot at someone a good distance away. Provided it was in good condition and properly sighted in.

My Bull barrel .223 AR below can effectively take out Prairie Dogs between 0-400 yards. I am confident that if I had the element of surprise, I could hit a human at those distances and, then some, all day long.

I haven't got the hours behind the PA-10 below that I have behind the bull barrel but, I am satisfied that it will accomplish the same results.






Al
 
#18 ·
First of all, if the SHTF I would rather not be shooting at folks at great distances. It seems that it would be best to avoid that scenario.

Al
I always wonder about this too. And for some other reasons besides what you listed.

Seems a lot of people who have large caliber "sniper" rifles, think that just having them, will make them some sort of Carlos Hathcock type shooter, practice or not. Im betting most dont even get to take advantage of that surprise they just lost. ;)


Personally, Id prefer closer range ambush on my terms and where I have more control, and Im comfortable and capable of making quick, good shots on multiple targets if necessary.

I always thought something like a suppressed Ruger 10-22 would be a perfect gun. More accurate than they should be for the money, and headshots out to 100 yards with no perceptible noise. Gun, scope, can, and tax stamp for less than most large caliber rifles alone. Cheap practice too, as long as theres not another panic. :rolleyes:

An AR in 300BO with a larger .308 can on it works quite well too, but still "noisey".

Sniping isnt always necessarily "long range", and if you arent willing to regularly practice that type of shooting, youre really just wasting your money on all that stuff you "think" you need to get there.
 
#20 ·
AR 10.



Much safer than shooting at them at close distances.
Might be safer at closer distances since your hit probability would go up.
Personally I would avoid any contact that I need not be involved in.

Al
 
#22 ·
Might be safer at closer distances since your hit probability would go up.
Umm...you realize that goes both ways right?

At long range if you miss the other guy probably will too....in fact he probably won't even know where your shooting at him from, giving you a chance to shoot again, run away, etc.

A close range you miss, or are a little slow, or just get unlucky and your dead. Sometimes CQB can't be avoided but anyone who actually thinks its safer is deluded.

Personally I would avoid any contact that I need not be involved in.
Of course. But you don't always get what you want. Much better to shoot them as far out as you can a time and location of your choosing rather than up close when they are at your doorstep.

This shouldn't even be debatable. All military doctrine is to engage at the maximum range you can.
 
#33 ·
First you have to be realistic about your skill level, and your ability to practice to increase that skill level.
Makes no sense to spend $$ on a 1000+ yard gun if you can never practice beyond 100 yards.

If you can regularly get to 200 or 300 yards to practice, then pretty much any decent bolt gun will do. Anything shorter and you're pretty much point and shoot IMHO. An AR with iron sights is fine. At 100, a lever 30-30 is fine.
Don't buy a Mosin... there is no reason to choose that over so many decent modern bolt guns. I'm also a little leery of Remington right now due to QC issues. Older 700's are like the gold standard though, same with Winchester 70's. However, there are really a lot of good bolt guns on the market now, with good features and accuracy at affordable prices.

I like the 308, have a Savage model 10 pretty much like the video posted earlier, but just bought my daughter a Thompson Center Compass in 308 for like $250 (they're on sale). Honestly, it has a very decent trigger, free floated and threaded barrel, and a 1MOA guarantee. (at 100 yards). Seems like a good starter rifle for sure, and it's lighter than my Savage.

You can put a mid range 3-9 scope (Vortex, Leupold, Nikon, etc... I like Burris) on it for less than $200, and a bipod if you want. I have Harris, some swear by Atlas but they're expensive. The new Magpul ones are getting good reviews and they're really affordable.
With a little practice and decent factory ammo you'll be able to hit a man size target out to 300 without being a 'sniper.'

Of course, 30-06, 243, 270, 7-08, 6.5CR and a bunch of other calibers will do the same. Really boils down to what you want to shoot and why. I've Killed a lot of deer with a 243, but like the ammo versatility of the 308 a little more. YMMV.

IMHO, 300mag is just loud and beats your gun up. Anything larger like 338, etc... is overkill. Good for those really long shots, but wasted unless you're really dedicated to long range accuracy. They're also more expensive to shoot, and at that point you should probably be reloading so you can work up a decent load for your gun. Then you're going to want a better optic (Nightforce, USO, S&B, etc...) and spending >$1000 on it... etc... etc... etc...
It's really the land of diminishing returns. Good if that's your need, pointless if not.
 
#34 ·
If you can regularly get to 200 or 300 yards to practice, then pretty much any decent bolt gun will do. Anything shorter and you're pretty much point and shoot IMHO. An AR with iron sights is fine.


With a little practice and decent factory ammo you'll be able to hit a man size target out to 300 without being a 'sniper.'
Selective editing for a reason; apologies in advance. If you can regularly get to 500 or 600 yards (I can) then pretty much any decent bolt gun will do. I can also shoot MOA with an AR, match grade ammo, and iron sights at 600 yards. But the difference is I practice regularly to those distances.

With a little practice and decent ammo (doesn't have to be factory), the typical shooter should be able to hit an Infantry Trophy D-target 100% of the time at 300 yards. For those not familiar, the silhouette is 19"W x 42"H. Or, for those who are familiar with the M9 pistol qualification target; that target with an additional 6 inches of black at the bottom. A "sniper" had better be able to keep 100% of the shots in the head on that target at 300 yards.
 
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#37 ·
I love Rugers and would love to have one.... HOWEVER, i cant believe how accurate my Savage Axis (not Accutrigger or anything) in .223 with just a Nikon Prostaff 3 - 9 X 40mm is for such a low price! i bought the combo gun & scope (probably a Bushnell) and later switched out for the Nikon.

if i ever get the cash, ild like to get a higher end Savage in another caliber for deer & such.

i had a Remington 700 ADL in .223 and the less expensive Savage beat it easily for accuracy.
 
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