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Old 07-27-2019, 09:52 PM
cat_1978 cat_1978 is online now
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Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
Cat has stated in the past that he knows who is not going to heaven. He specifically stated that PK isnt going to heaven.

It's a norm for him to speak for God.
Whoever supports openly the church of Satan it follows the logic to have the smallest chances of going anywhere near God.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cat_1978 View Post
Whoever supports openly the church of Satan it follows the logic to have the smallest chances of going anywhere near God.
Way to misconstrue what was actually said. However, it wont matter to you. So have a good day.
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OhioMan View Post
That would include the Church formed in Rome...right??

As does the Catholic Church...right?

They (Mormons, JW's, Catholics) all claim biblical authority along with additional writings and are Anti-Solo Scriptura...right?

All use the same logic to support their ideas of additional writings outside of what God's word says. All are against Solo Scriptura....right?
Heresy is a belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious doctrine.

The Christian Church in council, established orthodox Christian doctrine. The bishops of Churches of Apostolic foundation participated in the first seven ecumenical councils. So yes, the Church founded in Rome participated establishing authentic Christian doctrine.

The heresies I listed were all addressed by the Church in the first millennium. Each heresy has its own history, source, proponents and adherents. Opponents are the same in each case. The Christian Church - unified in council and by unanimous vote - opposed all early heresies against the Christian Faith.
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Old 07-28-2019, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
Actually man-made!

pssst...those terms are not biblical.
The TERMS are not heresies. The terms identify the originators and proponents of the false teachings that were being promulgated in the Church. It is the false teaching itself that is the heresy, NOT the title which the Church used to identify it. Each of those listed heresies were derived directly from the pages of scripture. Look them up and see for yourself.

The Bible itself is man-made. That is precisely the weakness of sola scriptura.
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Old 07-28-2019, 05:04 AM
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OK, back to Topic. Can Gods existence be proven? NOPE. I look at it like this. God appeared to Moses, but told him not to look Him in the face, and moses saw his backside as He went by. We cannot look upon Gods magnificence without dying. Our minds could not handle it. But, aside from that, why would God not want to reveal his existence to us to prove He is real? God created everything, even the angels. 1/3 of them made the choice to follow Lucifer in an attempted coup.

When God created the heavens and earth, he didnt want a bunch more robots obeying Him out of FEAR. We show God we love Him by choosing to live by His rules and out of love, not fear. It works the same with a spouse or other loved one. Unconditional love is always more desirable than for any other reason. We are offered ETERNAL LIFE as a result of showing Him our hearts are in the right place. We also have an intercessor, Jesus, who has lived here, been tempted by the same things, and experienced the evil that can be forced upon us humans. This is not proof that God exists, but it is the way God has chosen to give us an amazing gift. Yes, it is all thru faith, but even the faith is given to every man, to believe. They have located a part in mans DNA that everyone has. They call it the God gene, for lack of better understanding, but God has done more than His part to show us of His REALITY. And all it takes is BELIEF on our part. AMAZING!!!
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:52 AM
ebjr1967 ebjr1967 is offline
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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
It's good that you have knowledge of the communist repression of religion in Russia and Eastern Europe through your grandparents. However, with all due respect, you did NOT live under the atheistic repression of communism.

The first time I met my relatives in the Byelorussian SSR was in 1970. I remember my uncle taking me to a church for Divine Liturgy. I'm not exaggerating when I say he acted like we were going to some kind of clandestine meeting or something. Nobody was being arrested or anything, but there was definitely an air of caution about my uncle.

You and I had the good fortune to be raised here where (up until now, at least) we have had the chance to practice Christianity without repression. That may be ending in the not too distant future. But, for now you really don't have any frame of reference to truly understand the repression that went on in Russia and Eastern Europe.
Yes, I realize it is second hand information. It was their experience. I did witness the effects it had on them for the rest of their lives, even after "leaving it all behind", they truly didn't inside. Terms such as "air of caution" and "clandestine" was how they lived, in every aspect of their lives. The sight of a red blanket would throw them into a frenzy. I sometimes wonder how they would fair today, here in the United States. Oddly enough, they either gave up Christianity too, or never embraced it from the beginning. That part of their lives is a bit murky to me.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:11 AM
esheldon esheldon is offline
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Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
The TERMS are not heresies.
I didn't say they were. You said they were all bible-based, I said they were not, they are man-made.

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The terms identify the originators and proponents of the false teachings that were being promulgated in the Church.
Then it sounds like "the church" has a problem.

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It is the false teaching itself that is the heresy, NOT the title which the Church used to identify it.
A false teaching within the "church". Man-made title for a man-made problem, in "the church".

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Each of those listed heresies were derived directly from the pages of scripture. Look them up and see for yourself.
According to "the church" correct.

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The Bible itself is man-made. That is precisely the weakness of sola scriptura.
Then what's the problem? If the bible is man-made then you are already implying there is a problem with scripture, never-mind sola scriptura.
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Old 07-30-2019, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
I didn't say...
...
Then what is the problem...
No problem here.

Every heresy I listed used holy scripture - recklessly and irresponsibly applied - to back up the false teachings. The Ecumenical Councils of the Christian Church were convened to address those heresies, issue written opposition to them, and notify the heretic (and the faithful) as quickly as possible given the communication technologies of the day. Still, some false teachers were clever and persistent in their errors and led many astray. Even today some of these same false teachings are resurrected among those who call themselves Christian. How can this happen? Ignorance, plain and simple. People do not know their own history, and they do not care that they do not know.

I provided a short list of some of the false teachings that were addressed and opposed by the Church in the first millennium. It's decisions are well documented in the canons of those councils. Look them up and you will be able to decide for yourself if the heretics misapplied the scriptures. Where the Christian Church stands on those issues have been a mater of public record for more than a thousand years. Once a heresy, always a heresy.

The Bible is the work of human hands. The NT was written entirely by members of my church. I accept it as Holy Scripture - not because the heretics say so - but because the Church says so.

Any questions?
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Old 07-30-2019, 12:13 PM
esheldon esheldon is offline
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Originally Posted by Keyzer Soze View Post
No problem here.

Every heresy I listed used holy scripture - recklessly and irresponsibly applied - to back up the false teachings. The Ecumenical Councils of the Christian Church were convened to address those heresies, issue written opposition to them, and notify the heretic (and the faithful) as quickly as possible given the communication technologies of the day. Still, some false teachers were clever and persistent in their errors and led many astray. Even today some of these same false teachings are resurrected among those who call themselves Christian. How can this happen? Ignorance, plain and simple. People do not know their own history, and they do not care that they do not know.

I provided a short list of some of the false teachings that were addressed and opposed by the Church in the first millennium. It's decisions are well documented in the canons of those councils. Look them up and you will be able to decide for yourself if the heretics misapplied the scriptures. Where the Christian Church stands on those issues have been a mater of public record for more than a thousand years. Once a heresy, always a heresy.
So what you are saying is, is your "church" had some issues, and still does....considering the heresies came from people "within" your "church".

Quote:
The Bible is the work of human hands. The NT was written entirely by members of my church.
Which would account for the reason we have certain pieces of scripture that crept into it, when it wasn't there in the earlier writings. I wonder why Like the woman of John 8.

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I accept it as Holy Scripture - not because the heretics say so - but because the Church says so.
Doesn't make sense...of course you're not going to accept the word of someone labeled a heretic by your "church".

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Any questions?
Nope, I'm good.
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Old 07-30-2019, 01:46 PM
arleigh arleigh is offline
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When I was in high school during summer vacation I was working with my dad ,and he had me sweeping off a car port roof "flat" So using a push broom I walked backward ,not to be breaking up more material as I cleaned. Not realizing how far I walked I stepped off the roof and saw the ground in front of me and fell backwards but then immediately I was lifted back on the roof . I was in foot ball and wrestling and weighed 194 LBS .
This and other experiences demonstrated to me That God loves me.
I invited Jesus Christ into my heart at age 7 and grew up knowing God's intervention often in our family, and through out my life time . I am 68+ now .
God loves those that love Him and gives them preference . People that put their trust in every thing else, cannot enjoy the intervention God would provide.
Jesus was 33 when He went to the cross , fairly young by our standards never the less that is what His job called for, with the release of the Holy Spirit to the men that trusted Him, as well as today may too enjoy .
Proof is in the putting. Oh ye of little faith. What can it cost you to repent of your sin and ask Jesus in your life ? the possibility of it all being true and now having no excuse of ignorance ?
The fact that so much is invested in resistance means something is to be feared ,yes ?
The addictions , and lust for prestige among your fellows, which is as frail as smoke.

again I would encourage you to view the many testimonies of those whom have endured life after death ,on youtube .
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
So what you are saying is...
...
Doesn't make sense...of course you're not going to accept the word of someone labeled a heretic by your "church".
What I'm saying is what I have already written.

I am not aware of the Christian Church having attached any label to you at all. In this thread, I have listed specific examples of ancient heresies that the Church has identified and condemned. So within the context of this discussion, if you wish to claim the title of heretic, simply state which of those specific heresies you personally adhere to.

Once a heresy, always a heresy. Heretics themselves are different. It is in love that the Church identifies heresies for the benefit of its otherwise faithful members who may be victims of false teachings. All, particularly those who take on the mantle of teachers of the Faith, are called to repent of their errors and return to the Body of Christ.
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AlgoRhythms View Post
Before answering your question in a meaningful way, its necessary to know what "proof" means, as it could have several meanings. So, you have to ask, what would you consider acceptable as proof?
Putting aside the "God wants us to have faith" diversion, this is THE question.

For me it was when I considered the Apostles from the standpoint of a courtroom, requiring proof, beyond a reasonable doubt. Other than John, the remaining 11 were martyred.

They were martyred in such circumstances that all they needed do to save their lives was to admit their divine encounters were not real.

Now, consider the proposition was akin to the game of Clue. Did the professor commit the murder with the candlestick holder? It would be easy to understand the band of criminals turning on each other to save their own skin. But to stick to the story, not merely under the threat of death but unto death, reveals a sincerity of belief that is far beyond 'reasonable doubt.'

You mentioned mathematical proof. Well, what about mathematical probability?
From here, The students calculated that the odds against one person fulfilling all eight prophecies are astronomical-one in ten to the 21st power

From 356 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

The odds don't look good for non-believers.

The Bible talks a lot about hardening hearts and not having ears to hear. Non-believers blind faith against these odds and these lives is striking. The proof is in the blood, in the lives of these men. Yes, it is direct proof, not of their faith but what they knew and saw with their own eyes, the miracles of Jesus was real and worth dying for.
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Old 07-30-2019, 04:35 PM
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Sounds like you now believe Jesus Christ is God.
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by pinkerpv View Post
Sounds like you now believe Jesus Christ is God.
That's because that is what you want it to sound like.

IF a similar account was made about the miracles of Moses, I could have used that as a demonstration. God is God, not a 1st century Jewish carpenter. How does that sound?
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