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What is the Absolute Best Combat 9MM - Money Not a Issue

22K views 209 replies 84 participants last post by  greatgeezer 
#1 ·
I recently realized that I am a bit under prepared in the handgun department. It's silly, as I own 30+ handguns. The problem is that 2/3 of them are vintage firearms. Of the modern options, most have specific roles. Nightstand gun, suppressor host, ect. I need a no BS 9MM that is combat ready and rock solid. Looking at the SIG M11 A1. Any thoughts?
 
#96 ·
Semiauto UZI will work for me.

It fires as fast as I can tap the trigger.

Real accurate and reliable.

9mm AR-15 with these great Colt 32 round magazines. Using an EOTECH 1X scope sighted in at 50 yards for close combat use.

124 GR, FMJ stuff in mass saved up for.............
 
#98 ·
p series is fine

it's just not my "money is no object, best possible 9mm" pick

but when you get down to it, there's just not that much difference between them. they all have very similar designs overall, they're all combat-accurate, if they are reliable and durable then it just comes down to what ergonomics and accessories matter to you. if there was a single answer to this question there wouldn't be a dozen competing designs

in contrast, there's a good reason why the AR pattern pretty much dominates the rifle game. but with 9mm i don't think anyone dominates.
 
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#100 ·
Glock 17 or 19x or 45

I own a cz75, still NIB never shot it.
I own a Beretta m9a3, NIB, never shot it. Sold a 92fs and m9a1 because I never shot them after purchasing the glock 17.

Never owned a sig p226, but hear they are good. Also hear good things about the FN509.

I also own and shoot a dan wesson single stack 1911 9mm, I wouldn't feel out gunned carrying that into combat, but no reason to overthink or overspend. Get a glock and be done with it. They will grow on you. I bought my first one after my second 8 hour gun training class and have several more now.
 
#104 ·
No offense to anyone, everyone's comments are of interest, but if you purport to have specialized expertise or insight based on a qualification or association, make sure it is legit or at the very least transparent for everyone so we can ascertain your qualifications.

If I'm a weapons designer for H&K, I would have special insight (I'm not and never have been). Sales would have another insight or international marketing. But each has its place.

I like the H&K USP series and Glocks.
 
#106 ·
There's no need to tell everyone your life story just because you have some experience. This weird demand that someone send you a signed and notarized copy of their DD-214 if they want to talk about their military experience is bizarre. People have become overly protective of the idea because of a handful of liars. No need to jump at every shadow. Again, read his post: he has a very specific claim, that does not require him to be an Army Ranger in order to make it.

Edit: just to be clear, I'm not bashing 9th here, I just have a generally positive opinion of leadcounsel and prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
#108 ·
Agree on the CZ-75, which is why I decided to get the P-01. it's almost an exact copy of the CZ-75D. to the point that i'm almost not sure why they're even separate models. the grip angle is a little less aggressive on the P-01.
 
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#109 ·
A no BS 9MM?? Thats a Glock

reliability is the #1, 2 and 3 factor in filling the role that you described.

the answer therefore is glock and there is absolutely no argument for any other pistol in relation to that

now if you just dont LIKE the glock, or you LIKE SIGs or you whatever. thats another story. then you're sacrificing reliability for what you LIKE. And thats fine, run what you want.
 
#148 ·
yes
'but"..wear one of these with a serviceable belt & carriers, and enough speed loaders, to match the auto pistols for a week or two and you will find it heavy, low round count, training intensive ( try IDPA with speed loaders and see why)

but it this is what you have and you shoot it well, and you have a supply of ammo & appropriate rig to put it in. then this is the gun for you! better to be a proficient revolver shooter than some one with a person with a high cost gun that can't hit the broad side of a barn.

price tags don't reflect the reliability of a pistol, and your pistol is a secondary weapon system or it's proficiency in the hands of the right person
 
#120 ·
My favorites are the P320 and the FNX 45 Tactical
But mine are .45 ACP

I am thinking the M11-A1 would be a fantastic choice

The P320 aka M17/M18 is about as combat ready as it gets

I tend to like DA/SAs with hammers/decockers and the only full-size 9mm I have is a Ruger P89

All my other 9mms are small sub-compacts that can do pocket carry

If I got another 9mm it would be a P320
I think the P320 or the M18 would be worth a serious look based on your criteria or the M17 if you go larger
Clearly you could spend a lot more money but you will get zero increase in reliability or versatility
 
#121 ·
Getting back OT. Look at the S&W M&P series. I have or have had most everything listed previously and really like them. Everyone I have let compare the Glock and the M&P they almost always ended up with the Smith. About the only improvement to be made would be the trigger. You can either diy it or buy a drop in. The diy just amazing for about 30 minutes of time. For the money it is going to be hard beat the M&P, Glock or Sig P320.

I would also agree about more ammo and time shooting verses a custom pistol, unless you have money for both.
 
#122 ·
I think new requirements for a combat handgun would be (list does not include ALL rejects but a few notables):
1. ambidextrous (not M1911)
2. adjustable (not M9, H&K USP)
3. reliable (all pass)
4. rail for accessories (not M1911)
5. aftermarket support (not Springfield XD, maybe not H&K USP?)
6. safe (passes safety tests) (now P320 passes)

The newer series (not older P-2XX series) SigSauer, Glock, M&P would pass. What else?
 
#124 · (Edited)
Leadcounsel,
You have provide many a meaningful insight and an interesting contribution in the area of firearms in the past, and I hope you continue to do so.

What rubs some people is the association with prestigious areas of the armed forces. I would be careful in what you write, but I know you are a skilled writer so it is puzzling to some of us why an inference would be made. Kind of like lower enlisted personnel buying ribbons and rank at the PX and taking pictures of themselves wearing the newly purchase accouterments. I know you would never do this and I don't want to insinuate that you would, but why do you write such things, e.g. you're in the SOF community?

It is puzzling to me on your contributions and responsibilities as a JAG, something I never noticed on a active duty G-staff with our legal team. Not that your contribution is not worthwhile, on the contrary, it is. But the responsibilities of a legal officer would only extend to their enlisted staff in a legal setting. We never had the legal team except in very, narrow circumstances review our operational orders (I don't remember an instance while I was in Iraq). Not that your aren't hard charging, dedicated, loyal, but it may also be a stretch that your responsibilities extend in the infantry arena. I don't think Legal OBC included infantry, right? There was a one mos. course given during the Iraq war to prepare lieutenants in combat requirements ~ 1 month ~ I think that is the extent a legal officer *may* have attended. Certainly nada during LOBC.

Finally, although the education requirements may be less for an enlisted person compared to an officer, I'd be embarrassed to note that in an open forum. I was enlisted when I came in the Army and IMO there were some really smart people coming in infantry OSUT. Some stayed enlisted, some went on to other careers. Officer work is cut out for certain types that go to college and get a degree. I would never state or imply that enlisted people are not as smart, and I am a retired field grade. And having been thru infantry OSUT, I don't think you are aware of all of the requirements of even an 11B1O or Skill Level One Common Tasks. Not that knowing legal isn't an immense undertaking, but I don't know if you are aware of what a Skill Level one enlisted person has to know, much less somebody that has to train others and prepare a defense.

In all, thanks for your input, please be clear on what you write, be courteous, less gloatful.

Thanks!
 
#125 ·
1. There are a lot of extremely intelligent enlisted personnel. I did not say otherwise. What I said was that the infantry type training is designed for the average intelligence to pass. No doubt there are 150, 160, even higher IQ enlisted types but the training is geared for the lowest common denominator.

2. I can speak with certainty that every important operations concept is cleared by the legal officer. Every. Single. One. There are review blocks for every critical staff section on the cover page (S2, S3, S6, etc.) including legal/JAG. I have on several occasions refused to sign off on a bad CONOP until some key item was addressed or clarified, and in one instance outright overruled the CONOP as totally illegal and it was nixed. I'm more puzzled how someone in G-staff would not know this. A commander would be effectively committing career suicide by haphazardly running CONOPs without his legal officer in the loop or giving legal go-ahead. In every command center, TOC, SKIF, whatever, there is a legal officer on staff for these very reasons. What, pray tell, do you think legal officers are there for anyway; potted plants?

3. If I reference my service, it is purely to show that I was often in environments where I learned and saw a lot of the relevant topic at hand. I observed, trained with, or otherwise saw that 18 series used, liked, preferred, etc. and I learned a lot in that environment. I'm friends with 18 series. I talked shop with them often. Etc. Nothing more, nothing less.

Uh, yeah, I have trained to do and could lead a platoon of 11Bs on all the tasks of an 11B. WTF do you think officers do at officer courses?

Job description and tasks for an MOSC 11B1O, commonly taught to 19 year olds: This ain't rocket surgery.
"Operates both mounted and dismounted to close with and destroy the enemy. Employs, operates, and maintains assigned weapons and equipment. Assists in the performance of reconnaissance operations. Employs, fires, and recovers anti personnel and anti tank mines. Locates and neutralizes mines. Performs self extraction from a mine field. Orients a map. Operates, mounts/dismounts, zeros, and engages targets using night vision sights. Operates and maintains communications equipment, enter, and operates in a radio net. Operates in a NBC contaminated area. Constructs and camouflages individual/crew served weapons/vehicle firing/fighting positions. Assist in the construction of fortification and barriers, including minefields and obstacles. Assist in the breaching of minefields and obstacles. Constructs field expedient firing aids for infantry weapons. Recognizes friendly and threat infantryed vehicles. Performs as a member of a fire team during a movement to contact, reconnaissance, and security, an attack, defense, situational training exercises and all infantry dismounted battle drills. Processes prisoners of war and captured documents. Operate IFV over diverse terrain in varies visibility. Assists in target detection, identification, and round sensing."

I've trained to do everything on this list, except detailed landmine field extraction, for which I had some abbreviated training on identification and avoidance. The reality is, if one finds himself in a minefield they call EOD and stay put or maneuver out the way they came in. Weapons, sights, NVGs/optics/IR lasers, radios, NBC including two passes thru the NBC chamber with and without mask, donning them in the chamber, camouflage, crew served weapons, fortifications and barriers and entry points and obstacles, field expedient first aid including combat life savers course, ambushes and hasty ambush and cover and concealment, maneuvers, detainee operations.

This is all covered in various OBC courses and other courses I've graduated from. I quite likely received MORE training in some areas than a graduate from infantry school. And probably with a aim toward a larger perspective of leading troops, not just surviving and following orders. The target audience for this 11B training is E1s e.g teaching 18 year olds. I was an 03, in a position meant to lead E6s and E5s, who in turn lead E1s. This isn't hard to understand.

Not really sure what this continued point is. This is basic infantry stuff. Not Nobel prize winning information.
 
#127 ·
I was an 11C, My ASVAB was 87 & I had a GT score of 118. In the platoons I served in that was about average, had many guys around there as well as some higher & lower. My son is an 11B, his GT score is 115 & ASVAB was 92. Funny thing is about all the "morons" in infantry & other combat arms MOS's they often get some of the smartest people volunteering for it. So while yes the minimum requirements for scores might be lower for infantry than other MOS's and does therefore get a few crayon eaters, it is hardly a bunch of retards running around as nothing more than useless brain dead non-electrical pop-up targets. Oh, and yes my son and I bust each others balls 11C vs 11B, airborne vs. air assault & his higher ASVAB vs my higher GT, it drive my wife crazy. :D: We just laugh & try to tell her that's what vets do & active duty too & at the end of the day, we are all proud to have been part of a HUGE bad ass team, even though everyone knows 11C's & airborne is the best! :thumb:

ETA: In my defense, I was hung over the day I took the ASVAB & then my recruiter showed up late! Instead of showing up at 8am I could've slept another hour and a half. :mad: Not to mention we were having a Sat. football practice that day. :taped: His car wouldn't start due to the "bitter" cold of ~30f. :rolleyes:
 
#129 ·
So I was teal hunting in 92 in Katy, TX, on the rice fields. We'd picked our spot and left our location on the main barn's white board so that nobody would shoot into us over a berm and pepper us with lead (lease SOP so every field could get at least two groups shooting).

Well....all of a sudden we are getting peppered with lead and we eventually work around to the other field and here is a SOB Lawyer named Brian Chandler with his brother Kyle Chandler (actor and this was before Pure Country).

Well they apologized and we all hunted.

So based on my vast teal hunting experience and being around actors that use guns, I'd say the a Gen 2 GLock 22. Never trust a man with a rail and anything smaller than .40.


(the hunting story is true....and I can't watch Friday Night Lights, King Kong or Godzilla King of the Monsters the same again)
 
#153 ·
From The SIG Website FAQ:
Can I use +P or +P+?
+P Ammo manufactured to SAAMI/CIP/NATO specs is fine to use as a defensive round or for occasional range use.
Continual use of this round will make it necessary for more frequent service on the pistol.
We do NOT recommend the use of any +P+ round.This may void your warranty.
 
#134 ·
No, the P320 is rated for SAAMI 9mm +P ammunition
Sad to see bad information passed off here as it does us all a disservice
Higher pressure ammunition will cause more wear than lower pressure ammunition
Since the Sig P320 is used by all branches of the U,S. Military, all tney use is +P ammunition for practice and in the field.100% +P all the time.the P320 has proven itself to be as good as it gets. It is an individual question as to what is the best firearm for each individual. There is no best 9mm pistol, only the best for each individual.

SIG SAUER Introduces M17 9mm +P Ammunition
Published Date: 12/13/2018
NEWINGTON, N.H., (December 13, 2018) – SIG SAUER, Inc. is pleased to introduce the newest addition to the SIG SAUER Elite Ammunition product line – the high-performance M17 9mm +P ammunition. This military-grade ammunition is available in 124gr SIG Elite V-Crown Jacketed Hollow Point (JHP) personal defense loads, and SIG Elite Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) training loads. SIG M17 ammunition is specifically engineered for exceptional performance in any 9mm +P rated pistol, including the SIG P320-M17.
https://www.sigsauer.com/press-releases/sig-sauer-introduces-m17-9mm-p-ammunition/
 
#136 ·
Well, as I said earlier, I decided on the M11. It should be here Friday. I have a fun steel match Saturday, so I will run it and see what the outcome is. As I own a fair number of the pistols brought to argument here, FN's, Glocks, ect, I will hopefully be able to bring a insightful and hopefully educational end to all the banter. I will check back in a few days. I appreciate all of your input.
 
#139 ·
They are good guns, I dont think youll be disappointed. I was out blasting with one of mine yesterday. Soft, easy shooters.

Ive been avoiding running over to my local shop all morning. He just posted up a real nice used one with a nice set of what looks like $75 Hogue grips on it, for $535.

I really dont need another, but it is calling my name. :D:
 
#140 ·
Came for the debate on guns, saw the debate on .mil stuff. Interesting turn of events.

Anyway my vote is on a Glock 17 or a Glock 19. A P320, P226, 229, HK USP, 92Fs ect. will work all the same, I just train with and shoot Glocks more though I own examples of all of those except the USP.

Pre-covid the aftermarket for Glocks was so great that you could build yourself a Glock without using any Glock branded OEM parts. Hopefully when people get their heads out of their asses and realize they're being manipulated by Communists we'll see a return to Glock parts and Glocks being available at all.
 
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