Survivalist Forum banner

What power scope for up to 300 yard shots

127K views 47 replies 36 participants last post by  TDFbound 
#1 ·
Does anyone shoot 300 yards with consistent small groups? What scope power is helpful for hitting small groups at 300 yards? Here is why I ask. With my 3006 I can hit 2 in. groups at 100 yards using 4 power scope. Now that I want to do open range hunting I want to be confiedent out to 300 yds thus making 200 - 250 yard shots a high probability kill. I dont think the 3-9X variable power scopes are going to help me here. I sighted my friends rifle at 200 yds with the 3-9X and even at a bench rest I dont hold the rifle seady enough for good grouping. Should I try a 12 x scope? I wouold like to get 2 inch groups at 250 yards. Thanks
 
#2 ·
ok for you to get 2 inch groups at 250 yards....you would have to be able to shoot between .5 to .75 inch groups at 100 yards....now every part of that gun, including the shoot has to be in working in perfect unison to achive that....the question is do you really need to....

consider that a antelope has 8 inch kill zone and deer around 12 inches....

so that means since you shoot 2" group at 100 yards, at 300 hundred you are shooting 6 inch groups and that is with in the kill zone of your targets.

the 12x scope will help you see clearer and can help with the groups...

I see no reason your current setup will not work as is, as long as you do your part.


Good luck..
 
#8 ·
X2 , 9X not enough for 300yds? We used the fixed 10X M3A scope in the Army hitting about a 10-12" "kill area" on a human center mass target from 500-700yds with regularity. It's not easy, but a good prone position will help you steady yourself. Make sure the scope is focused for clearity. I think a 3-9x should work fine unless you have really crappy optics, bad glass, or a super tiny objective lens
 
#4 ·
You will find that the scope is not what holds the rifle steady. A higher power scope generally only tells you why you are missing the target.

Of late we have decided that "long range" is longer than it once was. 300+ yard shots with the same rifles and ammo we use now were considered irresponsible ten years ago. Attitudes change but ability does not. If you can not hold at 300 yards do not shoot at 300 yards.

You are not alone, most people can't. Most who say they can, can't!

I spent the whole day at the range today, watching people not hit the target at 200 yards. I am sure their 300 yard performance would have been equqilly entertaining.
 
#20 ·
A higher power scope generally only tells you why you are missing the target.
AMEN

If you want tighter groups at long range, the scope is the smallest part of the equation. A zeroed scope just shows you where the barrel is aimed, but there's a lot that happens between target acquisition and bullet impact.

For a while I had a self-appointed shooting coach, who is Double Distinguished, internationally ranked, former Navy shooting team, former BP shooting team. My groups tightened up drastically with his advice, and it all came down to no caffeine, plenty of rest, exercise, good diet and hydration. Less staring at screens that dried the eyeballs out. Then the fundamentals of trigger control, sight alignment, sight picture, and breathing. Then lots of rounds down range with the weapon (no optics) to increase familiarity. Then load development and dope development, understanding wind, etc. Got to where I could feel the miss, tell you why, and tell you where the bullet went even if I didn't see the hit. From there you just get faster at acquiring targets, which is really where the scope comes in.
 
#5 ·
What do you consider a small group?
If you are hitting 2 inches at 100 you will be at 6 inches at 300 that is simple math.
The question is is it the rifle or the shooter. A bad shooter may do better with a good rifle but a great shot can never make a bad rifle do better than it can do.
For one go to a .270, or a .260. Generally Rifle barrels are about the same diameter just the bore changes until you get into real big bores. Even then it does not change proportionally. If you look at most .223 rifles one thing you will notice is the barrel has quite abit of material left after they make the bore, now look at a 30 cal rifle AH HA less material. Now unless you make a 30 cal rifle heavier you don't get a thicker barrel, thus a .223 is basically more accurate than a .3006 or .308. because you are shooting a lighter round out of a naturally heavier barrel. I know there is going to be a bunch of hating on me over that last statement but it is a basic fact fellas, you have to typically get a heavier barrel to get a .30 cal to have less barrel whip.
This is one of the reasons why AR's seem more out of the box accurate then AK's they have more material left when the barrel is bored out.
Now if you look at the rounds smaller than 3006, and 308 rounds like the .270 and .260 you start getting not only flatter performance, you get a reasonably heavy bullet, and you also don't have to make the rifle weigh 10 lbs to get it to settle down.
I don't think the scope is your problem a good shot can make a good enough group with iron sights.
Variable power scopes have a ton of problems you have to spend buku bucks to start getting rid of all the mechanical problems that are created by making a variable power scope. You are better off with a fixed power if accuracy is the issue.
 
#11 ·
I appreciate all your excellent points. I am probably a shakey dude at the 200 yard + range. So I will practice more shooting, study my limitations and work within. You all agree the 3-9x is more than adequate at 300 yds. I will play with different bullet weights and see how that affects my shooting. More than that I have got some personal shooting habits to work on.
 
#14 ·
I'm kinda concerned when you mention that you could not hold the rifle with the 3-9x scope steady enough at long range. Are you shooting over sand bags on a heavy bench? Or are you trying to hold the rifle with your arms on the bench, or perhaps prone?

Suggestions:
Down load the ammo to 165 grain at 2600 f/s.
Wear great ear muffs.
Practice using full bags and a solid bench, let the bags hold the rifle.
Concentrate on trigger control.
Shoot at 100 yds until you can consistantly get a 1" group and an occasional bragging group of 3/4".
Then load the ammo to full power, upgrade the scope, and extend the range.
I would shoot for keeping ten rounds in a paper plate at 600 yds.

A nice clear 4x scope is enough magnification to do the job at 300 yds, but I prefer a 2.5-8x up to 4-12x.
 
#15 ·
It really depends on how small your target is. For instance I have a rubber stamp that prints a 2" solid black round spot and it takes all 9x to bring it out at 300 yards and still it is hard because the cross hairs tend to cover the dot up on lower power scopes.

If you have fine cross hairs and 15X you can just put them in the dot at 300 and see four quadrants. With large target it is much easier. For instance at 300 I have 6" steel discs and my 2X scope completely cover the disc at 300.
 
#18 ·
Does anyone shoot 300 yards with consistent small groups? What scope power is helpful for hitting small groups at 300 yards? Here is why I ask. With my 3006 I can hit 2 in. groups at 100 yards using 4 power scope. Now that I want to do open range hunting I want to be confiedent out to 300 yds thus making 200 - 250 yard shots a high probability kill. I dont think the 3-9X variable power scopes are going to help me here. I sighted my friends rifle at 200 yds with the 3-9X and even at a bench rest I dont hold the rifle seady enough for good grouping. Should I try a 12 x scope? I wouold like to get 2 inch groups at 250 yards. Thanks
Scope's power is not your problem. ;)
 
#19 ·
I believe the scope you're using now may be an issue. Not just for power issues, but reticle/crosshair issues.

Try getting an optic with a very fine reticle, or even a post-style reticle to help decrease target obstruction. At 200 yards, your crosshairs may cover a 3'' circle. That leaves all sorts of room for error in grouping. With fine crosshairs (or post-style reticles), you may only cover 1.5 or 2 inches at 200 yards, making it easier to determine center of target.

An example of a post-style reticle would be the Trijicon accupoint. Perhaps more expensive than what you want/need, but other similar platforms can be found for cheaper.
 
#21 ·
I generally like to have at least 1x per 100 yards and quality glass. I also prefer a 40 or 50mm objective for anything over a few hundred yards. I'm currently messing around with a 2-7x30(or 32mm?) LER scope on my Mosin, from what I’ve seen, it’s perfectly capable of hitting the "kill zone" out to 1000 yards provided I do my part. That’s not with hand loads either so I would agree with those that say that magnification has less to do with accuracy than some other factors...namely the shooter.
 
#22 ·
Proving and bugging out a rifle takes patience. First thing is like a number of guys have said shoot the rifle from a bench rest. If you can get the rifle to consistently shoot from the rest, then you add yourself into the equation.
I am not sure what rifle you have but for us guys that can't afford the high end stuff it is not unusual for a rifle to be a little rough out of the box. Sometime I am ready to throw it down the range. If it is acting squirrelly don't make over expectations until you have put at least 50 rounds through it and sometimes 100. I am not sure if it is the shooting then the cleaning then the shooting that breaks it in but that is what seems to work.
Some guys get break in bullets, I am not sure if that is what they are called but they are bullets treated with various buffing compounds from mildly course to fine to help with the break in process. Until you can shoot the rifle successfully from the rest you will never be able to shoot it better than that holding it yourself.
another thing is make sure you are resting the rifle properly and that nothing is touching the barrel.
 
#24 ·
As said before, the kill radius on a deer is 12 inches. You should be able to (eventually) group within 12 inches at 300 meters without any scope (assuming old age has not stolen your vision :(). Being able to see a larger version of your target does not help you if your four fundamentals of marksmenship are wrong.

First, properly zero your rifle. Second, learn and PRACTICE the four fundamentals: Breathing, Trigger squeeze, Sight picture, and Sight alignment.

You can have the best optics in the world, but it does not matter if your fundamentals are bad.
 
#26 ·
A few questions:
What type of scope
What brand of rifle
What type of ammo are you using example: Federal 150gr Soft point etc.
Do you have a good recoil pad on the rifle?

Check to see if the barrel is free floating: http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2010/10/free-floating-barrels.html

Buy a snap-cap and practice breathing & trigger control.
If you stick with a quality 4x learn the trajectory of the round your using and you'll be able to hold over for the shot, but you can't beat practice.

One other thing you might try is using a sling or a shooting stick.
 
#27 ·
The higher the magnification the more pronounced the shake which is why the military uses 10x scopes since that is about the maximum that you can hand hold (not off a bipod)and aim with.

That said I'd been using a 40x fixed power scope to shoot 100, 200 and 300 yard BR for years but off a 60 lb rest with sandbags in an 13.5 lb rifle.

Fine crosshairs are mandatory for target work and for shooting small rodents at great range but not in a hunting rig where a wider wire will actually help you aim quicker and more accurately...My close range guns have German #4 reticles or a post and crosshairs and my distance guns have a variety of tapered style crosshairs.

Think about it for as minute, the best (non DM/Sniper) military rifles will print into just under 2" at 100 yds with the norm being just over to just under 3" so your groups aren't bad and they have been used as hunting rifles for decades--Mosin-Nagant, Springfield, Arisaka, Lee-Enfield, Mauser etc..

2" @100 = 6" to 8" @ 300 well within the killing area on any big game animal...The standard store bought rifle will print 1½" at 100 yds...If you want smaller groups then that then you have to think trigger first, then stock, bedding, barrel, cartridge, optics and that costs you big money...Most BR rigs are in the $4 to $5 thousand range and well over that as well...It's nothing to pay $1,800 just for a scope...Putting a Timney, Jewell or Shilen trigger in any rifle will improve groups by 30% to 50% instantly and is by far the cheapest improvement you can do.

I'd been using 3-9x or 3.5-10x scopes on most of my non-varmint rifles with 2-7x being second choice...I've of late been buying 1.5-6x48mm scopes for my close guns instead of the 1.5-4x24mm since the bell gives better light gathering at dawn and dusk.
 
#29 ·
I dont think the 3-9X variable power scopes are going to help me here. I sighted my friends rifle at 200 yds with the 3-9X and even at a bench rest I dont hold the rifle seady enough for good grouping. Should I try a 12 x scope? I wouold like to get 2 inch groups at 250 yards. Thanks
All the magnification in the world isn't worth squat if you can't hold the rifle steady. You need to work on what others have mentioned, breathing, trigger control, ect. More magnification will actually make your issues worse. That being said once you fix those problems a regular fixed 4x or 3-9 will be more than adequate. I use my 270 out to 300yds with a 3-9x40 Leupold all the time.
 
#30 ·
Im grouping on a paper plate with a 0-4x scope with my rack-grade AR on a bipod at 350Yards.

Scope clarity and crosshair size matter more than zoom until you are so far away from the target that you can't identify what it is with the naked eye. In which case, it is probably not on your land, is not a threat, and you shouldn't shoot it unless it is a corrupt 68 year old with blonde hair and devil eyes
 
#31 ·
This is a 3 yo thread that was recently resurrected, but I thought I would add my 2 cents in as well... As previously mentioned, optics are great to help improve your accuracy BUT if your technique sucks, a $3500 Schimdt and Bender would not help at all.

I have a 10x SWFA SS and the glass is clear and the knobs are crisp. It is a rugged scope and can take the abuse. Concentrate on breathing, trigger pull and addressing the weapon. If all is correct you will shoot sub MOA at 100. I have a Savage model 11 with the accu trigger, a SWFA 10X, and a Shilen varmit barrel and I consistently shoot sub MOA at 100 with Freedom ammo. Practice, Practice, Practice... JMO

PS... I have found the "Sniper 101 or Long Range 101" Series on youtube to be very helpful on making long range shots covering technique and scope use... by Tiborasaurus Rex I believe is his "name"... my rig is newly set up and my next trip to the range will be at 200 yds. Trying to step my way up to 500 yds. Crawl before you walk, walk before you run. Master the sub MOA at 100 before you step up in distance. AT 200 yds, windage may need to be taken into consideration, granted the adj may only be .5 MOA for a 5 mph cross wind, but that is 1 inch at 200 yds. Master 200 yds before you go to 300 yds. It builds confidence while reinforcing technique.
AS Mel Gibson said in the movie "The Patriot", ...aim small, miss small!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top