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Old 03-13-2015, 06:24 AM
Jef_NH Jef_NH is offline
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* To see if the Town will vote to instruct the Chief of Police to not prosecute any matter relating to the use or possession of cannabis (marijuana) in compliance with Article IX and Article XIII of the United States Constitution. - Looks ok to me though the wording is awkward.
* To see if the Town will vote to instruct the Select Board and the Budget Committee to reduce the operating budget by ten percent for the next three years - Ok too
* To see if the Town will vote to establish an ordinance to discourage or otherwise prevent fraud and abuse of office at the local level. This ordinance requires any Town official found to have committed fraud, which includes the falsification of public documents, to be removed from office forthwith. - Probably hard to enforce or interpret but....well meaning
* To see if the Town will vote to preclude the Town from paying the personal legal expenses and personal medical expenses of any Town official. - Seems like a part of the way of dealing with #2
* To see if the Town will vote to preclude immediate family members from serving on any Town board concurrently - Hmm. I can imagine why this was put in place. While I get why they think it is a good idea, in a small town this could be difficult.
* To see if the Town will vote to require all funding for the Grafton Public Library to
be on a voluntary basis, (no use of taxation). - I really like libraries - I just don't like them so much that I am willing to lock people in cages or kill them if they like them less than I do. I understand this is not a popular opinion among those that enjoy telling others what to do.

There are more.. They are all pretty similar. Was I supposed to not like what I saw there? I see that the selectmen certainly did not.
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Old 03-13-2015, 04:20 PM
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As a lifelong resident of NH I welcome anyone that is willing to come here and vote for fiscal conservatism. There is definitely a batch of FSP participants that give the rest a bad name but those I have met just want to be left alone limited government etc....
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Old 03-13-2015, 06:30 PM
steve marshall steve marshall is offline
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Really? All I ever see from FSP or, since that died stillbirth, FTP, are people willing to misuse
parliamentry procedure, refusing to discuss the darker side of the Libertarian agenda and in general, acting like ****ants because that's the only attention they get. You guys want to win the hearts and minds?

Political hotline for State issues without proselytizing
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I'm sure there are many other things one could do. In short, volunteer your time and convert with actions rather than rhetoric. Delay tactics at town functions are not working. Getting in peoples' faces is not working. Hiding some of your philosophical agenda is not working. Your lame attempts are just switching your beliefs for Theirs. The people of Grafton won't come on board until you can show you aren't just a new hegemony.
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:51 PM
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I like the live free attitude of many I know in NH but being adjacent to Boston is a recipe for long term failure for conservative/libertarian ideals.
You are correct. Unfortunately.
NH is believed to be the first state to have elected a transsexual felon ( although he/she did not actually take office ) in a state legislature election. Said felon is currently out on PR bond for a recent bomb threat against a hospital.
Sad to say that the region that brought you Revolution part I will be going all California very soon.
My lifelong Live free or die dream has crumbled.
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by steve marshall View Post
Really? All I ever see from FSP or, since that died stillbirth, FTP, are people willing to misuse
parliamentry procedure, refusing to discuss the darker side of the Libertarian agenda and in general, acting like ****ants because that's the only attention they get. You guys want to win the hearts and minds?

Political hotline for State issues without proselytizing
Food Pantry
Soup Kitchen
Day Care
Sponsor a mile in Grafton
Neighborhood Watch
Hunter sight in day
Contribute to the fireworks fund
Meals on Wheels
Bookmobile
Clothes Exchange
Reading for Shut -Ins
Shuttle
Tax Overwatch with periodic statements
Safety instructions

I'm sure there are many other things one could do. In short, volunteer your time and convert with actions rather than rhetoric. Delay tactics at town functions are not working. Getting in peoples' faces is not working. Hiding some of your philosophical agenda is not working. Your lame attempts are just switching your beliefs for Theirs. The people of Grafton won't come on board until you can show you aren't just a new hegemony.
So unless these FSP folks can give your community more "free" stuff than the other folks that are currently giving you "free" stuff, you're not interested in what they have to say.
Not a shot just looking for clarification.
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Old 03-13-2015, 11:14 PM
steve marshall steve marshall is offline
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The concept of Libertarianism is less government and getting things done. The typical Libertarian here is all about what is wrong and nothing about what is right or can be right. This is their chance. Put up or shut up. Note that most of what I suggest costs little but time. Show people what life can be without big government.
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Old 03-14-2015, 06:09 PM
3/75 3/75 is offline
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Unfortunately, the only members of the FSP i've met in person were hot headed idiots who like to go out and instigate confrontations with the local cops and hate all government. Ironically, half of those advised that they were on SSI when I asked them what there profession was.
Its hard to take some of them seriously. Some good ideas, but some of their "loudest" activists are are their own worst enemies and make the entire group look ridiculous.
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Old 03-15-2015, 03:42 AM
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From Keene?


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Originally Posted by 3/75 View Post
Unfortunately, the only members of the FSP i've met in person were hot headed idiots who like to go out and instigate confrontations with the local cops and hate all government. Ironically, half of those advised that they were on SSI when I asked them what there profession was.
Its hard to take some of them seriously. Some good ideas, but some of their "loudest" activists are are their own worst enemies and make the entire group look ridiculous.
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Old 03-15-2015, 08:19 AM
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Seacoast, NH
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Old 03-15-2015, 06:43 PM
Joseph51494 Joseph51494 is offline
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Something I think is worth mentioning is the move hasn't been triggered yet so you are only getting the most diehard and hot headed people right now moving early. Once they actually hit 20,000 a large number of less in your face types will likely show up.
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:56 PM
Jef_NH Jef_NH is offline
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Something I think is worth mentioning is the move hasn't been triggered yet so you are only getting the most diehard and hot headed people right now moving early. Once they actually hit 20,000 a large number of less in your face types will likely show up.
Something I think is worth mentioning is that there are families, professionals and all already great people that have already made the move. I get the point about the way some people feel the need to collectivize and group 'everyone' based on interactions with a small number of people. I also need to remind myself from time to time that not all Republicans are bigoted statist theocrats.

For the most part I remember it - but from time to time it is hard so I certainly understand where you are coming from...
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Old 03-21-2015, 07:37 AM
steve marshall steve marshall is offline
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"The move hasn't been triggered yet". What are you guys waiting for? A worse electorate,
Lower/Higher unemployment or Georgia sinking into the sea?

Jef, what are you doing in Hillsborough? Please tell me you got the memo about taking over Grafton?
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Old 03-21-2015, 07:52 AM
Jef_NH Jef_NH is offline
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"The move hasn't been triggered yet". What are you guys waiting for? A worse electorate,
Lower/Higher unemployment or Georgia sinking into the sea?

Jef, what are you doing in Hillsborough? Please tell me you got the memo about taking over Grafton?
Cute.

The move is triggered when 20,000 people sign the statement of intent. As one might expect - it is pretty hard to convince 20,000 people to uproot their lives and commit to moving to NH even given how awesome NH is.

There are FSP participants all over the state. Keene get's the most (bad) press. Grafton is probably highest per capita but I believe the highest by total number is in Manchester. I'm not an FSP participant. I predate the FSP in NH by quite a bit (been here for ~23 years) but certainly support much of what FSP, Inc does and have many friends who are FSP early movers. There are also plenty of movers who I have little to no desire to be around on a regular basis. Just like the population in general.
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:14 AM
Jef_NH Jef_NH is offline
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Oh and as for your original list of things that FSP participants should do to 'prove' their worth -

* shiresharing.org - Has been doing annual food drives and food deliveries to families across the state for thanksgiving for a number of years - Started by an FSP participant - staffed with FSP and liberty friendly locals.
* The Nashua Liberty group has raised and donated money to the Nashua Soup Kitchen
* I know the NH Liberty Alliance (not affiliated with FSP Inc but certainly many NHLA members are FSP participants) has a 3 miles stretch of highway out by the seacost.
* I've personally done multiple unofficial 'litter pickups' in Nashua and Manchester that were organized by FSP participants (as well as several of my own)
* Many have volunteered on mainstream political campaigns.
* I have several close friends who have been volunteering with First Robotics teams as mentors for years who are FSP participants.
* Many have started businesses and provided jobs for NH. I suggest trying to get some Ablee Ebeneezer (http://www.ableebenezer.com/) "Burn the ships" beer at a local restaurant - started by an FSP participant.
* The New Hampshire Liberty Alliance reviewed every bill in Concord and generates a 'Gold Standard' voting guide that it distributes to legislators on voting days. (http://www.nhliberty.org/gold_standard)

There are a lot more. At least once a month there is something going on (fund raising for a local school, volunteering, etc)

I am aware of a few in Grafton who I do not choose to associate with on a regular basis. You may have run into some libertarians for FSP participants who you think have 'misused' parliamentary procedure or are obnoxious. I've got no reason to question that assertion. Meanwhile, the statists that surround you are locking people in rape cages for growing plants or chaining women to poles for taking video in public places. Freedom is a bit of a messy thing. Statism is messy and violent.
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Old 03-21-2015, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jef_NH View Post
Something I think is worth mentioning is that there are families, professionals and all already great people that have already made the move. I get the point about the way some people feel the need to collectivize and group 'everyone' based on interactions with a small number of people. I also need to remind myself from time to time that not all Republicans are bigoted statist theocrats.

For the most part I remember it - but from time to time it is hard so I certainly understand where you are coming from...
Thanks its kind of hard to say to much being out of state but felt the need to chime in as a pledge. I am hoping to move later this year.
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Old 03-23-2015, 06:46 AM
steve marshall steve marshall is offline
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Keep coming up with lists that no one's ever heard of. The idea was for the FS/FT people to win hearts and minds. You come into my town wanting to make a difference? Do something positive that the town can see. Instead of the constant blathering of big government, instead of disrupting town meetings with parliamentary tactics, try doing something that will help the average citizen. You guys are alienating the average citizen. Good tactic that.
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:27 AM
Jef_NH Jef_NH is offline
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Originally Posted by steve marshall View Post
Keep coming up with lists that no one's ever heard of. The idea was for the FS/FT people to win hearts and minds. You come into my town wanting to make a difference? Do something positive that the town can see. Instead of the constant blathering of big government, instead of disrupting town meetings with parliamentary tactics, try doing something that will help the average citizen. You guys are alienating the average citizen. Good tactic that.
As long as you insist on collectivizing from the behavior of the few and disregarding evidence that does not fit your preconceived notion, there is little that can be done.

In this thread, you've provided nothing but vague/hand-wavy assertions of negative intent while in each case, I have provided actual evidence. You make vague reference to ballot initiatives that are somehow supposed to be bad. I post those actual initiatives that you request and there is no specific response.

You provide a vague list of things that you wish FSP participants were doing. I post specific list of things that are actually being done that meet your criteria and you instantly dismiss it.

Honestly it is pretty clear at this point that you really have no interest in honest discussion.
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:23 AM
steve marshall steve marshall is offline
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Yeah. Talking to wanabees doesn't interest me. I like how you dismiss possible solutions and prefer citing "accomplishments" that I or the average NH citizen has never heard of. DO YOU WANT to take the State or even a small town like Grafton? Or are you content to merely think of what might be? Yeah, that's what I thought. If living, I'll be reading the same we're going to do this and that 20 years from now.
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Old 03-23-2015, 09:51 AM
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Granted you are a NH native and 64 years of age, isn't it your generation that has failed and allowed the leftists and collectivists to pollute the Granite state's principles of small government and rugged individualism?

There is a fresh crop of liberty minded individuals moving into the state, as a counter to the big government types and socialist-democrat minded that have been occupying the state for many many years now. Perhaps though you don't agree with them all as you shouldn't, but doesn't this give you a little encouragement? Or are you perfectly satisfied with the current status quo and you do not want that disturbed?

So what are you doing? What are your accomplishments in expanding liberty in the state of New Hampshire?

Have you created or founded any of these volunteer services, programs, or groups that you would like to see? Or would you prefer politicians do that for you?

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Political hotline for State issues without proselytizing
Food Pantry
Soup Kitchen
Day Care
Sponsor a mile in Grafton
Neighborhood Watch
Hunter sight in day
Contribute to the fireworks fund
Meals on Wheels
Bookmobile
Clothes Exchange
Reading for Shut -Ins
Shuttle
Tax Overwatch with periodic statements
Safety instructions
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:04 PM
steve marshall steve marshall is offline
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When a life long resident offers advice on how to woo the State we get more verbiage.

Instead of acting like Messiah's, try saying or doing something an average citizen can grasp. You guys can't even understand something as simple as that. I'm not trying to take over Grafton or N.H., yet my efforts are in question. Try relating to people instead of talking down to them.
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