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Old 03-18-2012, 08:08 AM
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Background:

I am 68 years old and have had two heart procedures. My wife is 60 and disabled. Only an evacuation order will get us out of our home and I am prepared for a 7 day event with a well equipped BOB. I have .22, .223,.308, 9mm,and my beloved 5.7 as defensive weapons.

My home has a hard-wired alarm system, with a wireless camera system for viewing outside. I have 70 gallons of water for non-personal use (sanitation, crops,etc). I have 12 gallons of water for drinking and cooking. I have a 16 x7 foot raised garden as I can't take care of anything larger.

I have a dehydrator for food storage.

My question are:

1. What are your opinions about food storage and pre-packed emergency foods with a long (years) shelf life?

2. What tools such as hammers, screw drivers, etc. should I have? Should any be "cordless" with extra batteries?

3. Are small "indoor" gardens with grow lights and ventilation viable?

4. I would like to get a stash of prescription medications (legally) for my wife. The medications I would like are the HIGHLY regulated class (Oxy's and Vicodin) which she has a script for now. Any ideas?

I have just joined this forum and am really impressed by the wealth of knowledge and experience here.

Any suggestions, opinions, criticisms, anyone cares to offer will be greatly appreciated.
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:53 AM
Bullets~n~Beans Bullets~n~Beans is offline
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First, Let me say WELCOME! So lets see if I can answer some questions for you.

Prepackaged foods. I have found that some are better than others. Freeze dried seems to be popular with Mountain House being the leader. The problem with it is the extremely high sodium content in them. At age 68/60 you may want to stay away from it. The commercial dehydrated foods are lower in sodium. What I do is dehydrate my own then store in mylar for long term. Other than having a few cases of MRE's I can't say much more about the long term prepackeaged foods since I don't have any. We store whole grains and such.

In my humble opinion there is no such thing as too many tools. You need to have at least one of all the common tools that you can get or afford. Without power to either run the tool or charge the battery any power tool is useless. A small generator or even good quality solar panels would work. With solar you will need an inverter and maybe a few other small items to go with it.

Small indoor gardens. Absolutely they work and are viable! We grow year round both indoors and in a hoophouse. We have so much fresh salad greens, in March in Idaho, that some is starting to make it's way to the compost bin. I just looked over and noticed that I have to stake a tomato plant today. Yes, it's indoors.

Sorry, I have no suggestions on those level of meds.

So I hope that maybe I answered a few things for you, or at least gave you an opinion. You might want to add to your drinking water or get a good filter. 12 Gallons will go fast.
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:03 AM
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I agree that you need more water storage, or get a water source. My parents added a hand pump to their well they have for the sprinkler system so they can get all the water they need that way.

A good set of hand tools will be important, along with a few contractor packs of nails and screws. Having a stash of lumber is good too. Lowes and Home Depot may not always be there to get supplies from.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:11 AM
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At you and your wife's age and heath condition I would suggest storing more of the foods you eat now. However do not go overboard since you need a functioning society to really survive long term. So prep for likely short term disasters. The tools, if you already do not have them and use them regularly, are probably a waste to pick up now. Your 12 gallons of water is low if you need to get by for more than a few days. Remember that your HWT can be tapped for a source of fresh water. Likely it is 30 gals or more.

Looks like you plenty of guns.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:14 AM
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More water, more long term food and any fuel necessary to prepare meals.

Are you able to join up with any family members nearby if troubled times are realized?
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:19 AM
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You need water & methods to collect & purify water. \
You need to form friendships with younger more healthy people and find things that you can contribute & they can contribute. Everyone has a better chance of surival in an emergency situations if they are part of a group where everyones strenghts can be utilized. Because you both have health issues you may need help with certain things. If you are financialy able to store extra things for barter items I would do this. Good luck. And welcome to the board.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:28 AM
Kris in Edmonton Kris in Edmonton is offline
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Meds,..Oxy is very addicting, and Vicodin is as well. If she is close to using her prescription amounts, all I can suggest is that you ask your doctor for more and try and regulate the use and store the extra.

Mountian house or other freeze dried food is good, but like it was said it is high in salt. A small indoor grow room might help with fresh veggies.

Tools - Buy as many hand tools as you can afford and know how to use. I would also reach out to family for help as you will need it if SHTF.

Welcome!!
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:59 AM
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I would reccomed Honeyvill Grain freezes dried and dehydrated products.
The have no preservatives or sodium in the vegetables and fruits.
You need a lot more drinking water and a few thousand rounds of ammo.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:08 AM
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Welcome!

Excellent Set-Up Post!

If I may Underline the Issue nearly common in posts in reply: Your Water is Woefully short supply.

Only spend money on tools you can use. If rechargeables are a necessity, then you need to have in place a proven way to recharge them. If you don't have Knowledge to set up a Direct Recharge capability, then having Solar charge a battery, then Inverting to AC, and then through the dedicated charger you get with the tools is a Tremendously Lossy way to get it done. You will loose more than you save!

A little Plastic sheeting and Your South Facing Windows will provide a Lot of Veggies.

Be careful selecting Friends to Help with Survival.

Wishing You the Best.

Big Ugly Guy
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:13 AM
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welcome from ky my imho preps for myself are kept basic simple. any thing else is for barter
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:14 AM
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everything seems to be covered already by others. The only thing I may suggest is your wife trying to take half a pill two times a week instead of a whole. If she is able to do that she will be putting one pill a week up for hard times when they aren't available. Also welcome and I wish the best for the both of you old coots
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:26 AM
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Welcome. I would say increase your potable water supply. Stink you can live with, dehydration you can't.

As for the long shelf life meals, a lot of it is VERY high in sodium, which I imagine your docs have advised you to steer clear of. Check the nutritional info on whatever you are thinking about buying before you buy. Most of it is available on the web.

I would go all in Amish on the tools. Hand crank drills, etc. just to be safe.

As for the meds, I think you are going to be hard pressed to find a Dr that is going to write you a script for more than you need. Those two you mentioned are under great scrutiny at the moment for being dispensed with abandon and you are unlikely to find a practitioner who is going to put his license on the line for you.

In your situation, it seems a bug out would drastically reduce your odds of survival. I would focus on continuing to make my home a hard target, and consider constructing a panic room some where in the house.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldsmithy View Post
Background:

I am 68 years old and have had two heart procedures. My wife is 60 and disabled. Only an evacuation order will get us out of our home and I am prepared for a 7 day event with a well equipped BOB. I have .22, .223,.308, 9mm,and my beloved 5.7 as defensive weapons.

My home has a hard-wired alarm system, with a wireless camera system for viewing outside. I have 70 gallons of water for non-personal use (sanitation, crops,etc). I have 12 gallons of water for drinking and cooking. I have a 16 x7 foot raised garden as I can't take care of anything larger.

I have a dehydrator for food storage.

My question are:

1. What are your opinions about food storage and pre-packed emergency foods with a long (years) shelf life?
Some are good, some aren't so good, some have extra salt in them. One thing that is pretty constant is you will pay more for processed dehydrated and freeze dried food, and pre-packed collections of food, than by buying bulk food like rice and beans and canned goods, or dehydrating and canning produce, and storing them yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldsmithy View Post
2. What tools such as hammers, screw drivers, etc. should I have? Should any be "cordless" with extra batteries?
I believe in the basics: Hammers, saws, wrenches, screwdrivers, nails, braces and bits, tape measures (oh GOD, tape measures!), cuss words... While electric tools are great time and labor savers they do little if the power goes out, and I'm never had much luck with cordless...

Sheets of plywood and supplies of 2x4s are also nice to have on hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldsmithy View Post
3. Are small "indoor" gardens with grow lights and ventilation viable?
Certainly! Green houses, pots on a shelf against a window, these can provide fresh produce when outdoor gardens can't be used. Don't overlook sprouting, either: Moistening seeds in a jar or plate, letting them sprout and begin to grow, then using them for greens. Not only is this a quick and easy way to add to your diet, they're pretty tasty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldsmithy View Post
4. I would like to get a stash of prescription medications (legally) for my wife. The medications I would like are the HIGHLY regulated class (Oxy's and Vicodin) which she has a script for now. Any ideas?
This is difficult. I would approach her doctor - preferably after news of a disaster elsewhere that caused major disruptions in supply, so you can use that as an example of what you're worried about - and request a prescription for a larger than normal amount so you can have some in stock. He might go along. especially if you've demonstrated you are responsible patients. Whether insurance companies would be willing to cover such a script would be questionable.

You CAN order from overseas 'pharmacies', but there you don't know what you'll be getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldsmithy View Post
I have just joined this forum and am really impressed by the wealth of knowledge and experience here.

Any suggestions, opinions, criticisms, anyone cares to offer will be greatly appreciated.
You need more stored drinking water. Water can be cut off in a disaster, contaminated by chemicals and pathogens, required in higher than normal amounts during heat waves... You can last a while without food, not long without water. I would add more, and don't overlook your hot water heater.

Good luck!
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:39 AM
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Most of the important points have already been covered, some more than once.

My only addition would be to add battery backup to your alarms and cameras, with a solar panel to charge. The defensive advantage they allow is useful to anyone, but especially to you folks as you can't be everywhere and alert all the time. If the power goes out, you need to be able to use this advantage. A big battery (or bank) should allow for at least 3 days of no power. The solar panel can be added if you're concerned about long term loss of power. Keep in mind that in a really bad situation, the alarm is not really so much about calling for help as much as it is to give you guys time to react and defend yourselves.

The only other thing I can add is on the meds. I have been in the position of relying on strictly controlled meds, and didn't like the fact that I had no surplus. I learned to do without on some days, where they were less necessary than other days either because it was a good day healthwise, or because I had few obligations and could just tough it out and be miserable on my own. This allowed me to keep a few in surplus for whatever situation might come up. It was also good practice for the day when I may run completely out, and for rationing a fixed supply to put off that day. I don't know your circumstances, and this may not be of any use to you.

Good luck to you.

Az
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:55 AM
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Goldsmithy, I think that you have an excellent start!
I would increase the water; and maybe buy some bottled water. Hubs and I just went through a few days with a broken water pipe, and some of the larger water containers were very heavy; your wife may appreciate smaller containers!
I would also get canned goods and 'easy' foods: peanut butter, ravioli, tuna, anything that is easy and can be eaten cold if need be.
Look into a solar oven (we use a Sunoven); they make it easy to prepare food, even boil water, without any extra fuel.
Also, stock up on the basics: toilet paper, TRASH BAGS, tarps, duct tape, old newspapers, and fill your old soda bottles with water, etc.
And maybe look into 'square-foot-gardening'; a raised garden the size of the one you have could yield an amazing amount of food!

Happy prepping, and "Welcome!".

And one more thing: if something did happen (knock wood), be careful to pace yourself. Heart trouble and overexertion don't mix. Having plans in place is a great way to stay cool and realize what is important and what can wait. :o)
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldsmithy View Post
Any suggestions, opinions, criticisms, anyone cares to offer will be greatly appreciated.
First off, welcome to the forums. I haven't been here too long myself and am amazed at the insight that can be gleaned from here.

Second, you are to be congratulated for doing as much as you already have. Given your situation, it looks like you are well ahead of even most able-bodied people. Good job!

The best you can do is be ready for a short term (3-6 month) interruption in society. After that, your physical limitations and your wife's medical needs will be very difficult if not impossible to work around on your own. I totally agree that banding together with others should be very high on your to-do list. Even if you do not have many physical abilities, a guy your age has a lot of "soft skills" to offer: Leadership, wisdom, knowledge, etc.

Hand tools are inexpensive and easy to come by but obviously they will get you only so far. I suggest relying on power tools only to the minimum needed and of course have some way to power them. I'm kind of on the fence regarding cordless vs. traditional corded tools. A good compromise that I suggest to friends is getting an inverter, connect it to your car battery, and run the power tools off that. Corded versions are less expensive and you do not have to be concerned with having a different battery for everything. A cheap square wave inverter is fine for tools. Connect it directly to the battery with jumper cables; do not use the 12 volt dash plug. Make sure the engine is idling if you need juice for more than just a quick job.

Food storage: It is true most of the storage food is not that healthy. Still, any food is better than none, so go ahead and buy yourself some. Sample the selections so you know what you are getting. Of course, have a way to cook the stuff. Some prepackaged foods just need hot water added and others must be simmered over heat for 20 minutes or so. This may matter if fuel is scarce.

Medication: Wow, this one will be hard. No ethical doctor is going to write script for controlled narcotics so you can have it "just in case". I have two ideas:

1. Skip a dose every now and then and save the extra pill for "just in case". I'm not a doctor and I know this is horrible medical advice, but it is an option.

2. Come clean with the doctor regarding your concerns. You do not have to talk about the end of the world or anything like that. Just casually drop the question: "Hey doc, what should I do if the Vicodin supply gets cut off?" Ask if there are any possible alternates you can stock up on. There may be alternatives out there you don't know about. You are paying good money for medical care; make them earn it and not just default to the standard. It may help if you research some of this yourself and bring the information to the appointment.

Again, you are to be commended on your insight. Good luck!
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:44 PM
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I've seen where you can order drugs from overseas. Can't find the site now!!!
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldsmithy View Post
1. What are your opinions about food storage and pre-packed emergency foods with a long (years) shelf life?
I would go freeze dried for emergency foods that store well. The nice thing is they not only store well, but they are generally easy to fix/use too - the pouch meals are usually already cooked so at most you just add hot/warm water, at worst you add water period and let it sit in the pouch while you are still moving. You don't need to stop, just add the water and keep moving and eat on the go when it is rehydrated. Some of the foods, like the fruits and desserts, you may not even have to rehydrate if you are really in a hurry - you can just munch on them as is.

The fact that they are very light and store well is a plus for an emergency food you might have to put in a BOB.

I would get enough in pouches for your BOB and just be careful to not treat them roughly - they will last well past the 7 year rating (at least Mountain House will); I had one that was well over 20 years old and it was fine when I ate it.

Beyond that I would consider a mixture of dry staples (rice, beans, etc.) with rotated canned goods and some cans of freeze dried foods. I bought some FD (freeze dried) fruit, meat and eggs - the FD food I bought in cans was not meals (except the eggs) but rather what I could use with the dry staples and canned goods to make a meal.

Quote:
2. What tools such as hammers, screw drivers, etc. should I have? Should any be "cordless" with extra batteries?
It depends on what you need to do. Is this for fixing your car or your house or what?

Certainly you need at least a hammer of each type (carpentry type claw hammer, ball peen, sledge, mallet), a few screw drivers of different sizes and types (flat blade, phillips), some wrenches, pliers and cutters. Some saws (hack saw, wood saw, etc.) and so on. Start with the basics and get a diversity of basic tools.

Generally what is offered is "sets" for things like wrenches and screwdrivers.

My advice is not to get the bargain basement brands for most tools. They will break/wear out too fast. Find someone who actually uses these tools on a regular basis and have them tell which ones to avoid. You don't need to necessarily get the absolute best either - good enough is good enough. It also depends on your budget.

Some power tools are good. A battery multi tool - like a power driver can serve as a screwdriver or a drill. These can come in handy if you have to put up something quickly - like screwing down a shutter over your windows.

Quote:
4. I would like to get a stash of prescription medications (legally) for my wife. The medications I would like are the HIGHLY regulated class (Oxy's and Vicodin) which she has a script for now. Any ideas?
If you keep them out of the sunlight/heat, maybe put a desiccant in with them, they should last for a while. I have some that I had for various medical procedures and they were still good some ten years later - although their effectiveness did diminish over time. So if you can, try to get and put back extra and rotate them. I guess it depends on how often she has to take them. I am lucky in that I rarely have to use mine so I still have a decent emergency supply - but then 20 tablets of each may not last me long either.

I would recommend you maybe talk to your physician about giving your wife a little extra with each refill so you can set some back.
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Gjune09 Gjune09 is offline
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Default Supply of Meds

Most control drugs are only a 30 day supply. Most docs will not increase those, because of the regulations involved. However there is a method of building up your supplies without skipping dosages or at least only a few times a month.

If you refill your or spouses script once a month. Most can be refilled abt 4 or 5 days in advance. Get your refill as early as you can, place the leftover pills aside and began using the new script. Next month do the same and the pills will slowly build up. Be sure to keep all pills in their original bottles so you know what, why and dosage of each kind. May need to keep excess pills well hidden from others tho.
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:58 PM
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Goldsmithy, it sounds like your off to a good start and the replies have covered just about everything.

Just wanted to say Welcome to the forums! The information here is invaluable.
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