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View Poll Results: What is the Best Boat for a River Rat
17 ft Canoe 3 20.00%
Kayak 0 0%
14ft Jon Boat 5 33.33%
14ft Utility Vee 6 40.00%
Folding Row Boat 1 6.67%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-21-2019, 11:50 PM
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Default What is the Best Boat for a Coureur des Bois?



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One of the low probability futures is a complete break down of society in the US. With the failure of the power grid, communications, and transportation, it is possible we would also loose law enforcement.

It occured to me that if crime gets bad enough, I might be forced to keep moving, and one way to do that is to travel along a major river. This does not sound like much fun, but what thpe of boat would work for someone constantly moving up and down a major river with a large store of supplies.

No power and no transportation means this boat must be easily propelled by oars, paddles, or sail, and I would also want to carry a small outboard motor.
I figgure I need to carry two people, a 450 lb grub stake, and 200 lbs of gear. What boat would Pasquinel use today.
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:09 AM
manny manny is offline
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Don’t see where any of the boats listed would be suitable for carrying the roughly 1000 lbs of people and gear you want to move. The 450 lb grubstake pretty much does in those small boats, though you might manage with two smaller boats.
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Old 09-22-2019, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
No power and no transportation means this boat must be easily propelled by oars, paddles, or sail, and I would also want to carry a small outboard motor.
I figgure I need to carry two people, a 450 lb grub stake, and 200 lbs of gear.
it is a fact of life....that all boats are a compromise.....you will not find a boat that will do all of what you wish for.....so.....ya gotta give up sumptin….

the closest your gonna get is an old fashion aluminum fishing boat....with leeboards if you want to sail....

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/boa/d/a...983697281.html

but for the most utility..give up any idea of sailing..and go with two Grumman canoes(17 foot is rated for 755lbs)....a frame to make them into a catamaran...for stability....with outboard between hulls...mounted to the frame...to meet the cargo weight requirements...and still could row/paddle... use as separate vessels when useful.....can make the rig narrow or wide...with cargo netting between to spread the load

https://fortsmith.craigslist.org/boa...951393950.html

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Old 09-22-2019, 07:26 AM
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The problem with using a sail for a boat that is not designed specifically for
it, is that it usually can't point very far up wind. That really limits you.

Hobie makes sailing kayaks that also have pedals that propel fins. This allows
you to either use the wind, your upper body with a two sided oar, or
your legs. I own a Hobie tandem that I can do that with. But like I
said, it only has one sail, no jib so it won't point up in the wind like
the dedicated sail boat I used to race back in the 80s (Thistle).

What I would like to own, (that I don't have) is a Aluminum Jon boat
with 2 electric motors, and oar locks so I could row it. This Jon boat would
be the longest I could fit in back of a Pickup, and would stick out the end.
Maybe 17 feet. That way, in a SHTF situation you wouldn't need a trailer or
boat ramp as long as you have 4wd. When you get to your camp site you roll
out the solar panel and charge it back up. Electric motors are quiet, which is
a huge advantage. The Hobie Tandem I mentioned is not rated to handle
1000lbs, but the Jon boat probably would.

Another option I am thinking about is pulling a single person Kayak behind
my Tandem, like a pack mule. I have regularly pulled my wife in her Kayak
when she gets tired, and it works well.

With today's solar panel Technology I really think electric motors are the way
to go because who knows how long you will get gas in an event.
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Old 09-22-2019, 07:34 AM
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In such a situation, I fear you would be picked off from the bank and looted with any of those boats day or night. I have a small outboard boat and have considered this scenario. Would be hard to hide or move around. Better than in a city neighborhood maybe, maybe not?
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:00 AM
wldwsel wldwsel is offline
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I would think the canoe would certainly be the easiest to paddle with a load. Paddling upstream with any kind of load in any kind of jon boat would be extremely difficult, even empty of a load. Other boats listed would likely not carry the load you're speaking, if indeed, the 17 ft canoe would carry it.

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Old 09-22-2019, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeTarzan View Post
In such a situation, I fear you would be picked off from the bank and looted with any of those boats day or night. I have a small outboard boat and have considered this scenario. Would be hard to hide or move around. Better than in a city neighborhood maybe, maybe not?
Lots of good responses, but this one cuts right to the nub.

Because if society is so screwed up that it is no longer safe to live on my remote ranch in the Ozarks, it is screwed up everywhere there are people. So in addition to carrying the load, the boat also must allow me to travel far enough up stream to reach real wilderness.

I used to own an Old Towne 17ft canoe that did carry a 1,000 lb load. I sold it, because the afternoon winds nearly pushed us all the way accross Lake Tahoe. But I might buy another canoe.

But the small boat I own now is a 14ft folding row boat built by Portabote. I bought it for fishing the small lakes of the Eastern Sierras because I could easily carry it on the cargo bars of my Jeep Wrangler, lauch it from a muddy shoreline, and it really handled the winds and chop with a 5hp outboard motor.

I agree that a electric motor would be a good option. Have to look into that.
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:46 PM
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I'd go for a bullet resistant cockpit Zodiac Hurricane RHIB and M240 GPMG on pintle mount 8-)

Have twin 100HP outboards for fast exit and twin backup electric motors for quiet snooping
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:07 PM
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It largely depends on the water you're using.
lakes are relatively calm most of the time ,
rivers can be quite tempestuous especially there is white water.
Ideally it would-be prudent that one select the type of transportation best suited for the challenge at hand.
The broader the problems the more complex the solution.
A hover craft is the best over all solution for on and off land and swamps and oceans, most boats are incapable of.
Something self powered one must remember that it takes calories to burn making any power for this work. Hobi cat has what is called marriage drive and there are others that use foot power you might be interested in ,some are quite ingenious.
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Old 09-22-2019, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
Lots of good responses, but this one cuts right to the nub.

Because if society is so screwed up that it is no longer safe to live on my remote ranch in the Ozarks, it is screwed up everywhere there are people. So in addition to carrying the load, the boat also must allow me to travel far enough up stream to reach real wilderness.

I used to own an Old Towne 17ft canoe that did carry a 1,000 lb load. I sold it, because the afternoon winds nearly pushed us all the way accross Lake Tahoe. But I might buy another canoe.

But the small boat I own now is a 14ft folding row boat built by Portabote. I bought it for fishing the small lakes of the Eastern Sierras because I could easily carry it on the cargo bars of my Jeep Wrangler, lauch it from a muddy shoreline, and it really handled the winds and chop with a 5hp outboard motor.

I agree that a electric motor would be a good option. Have to look into that.
After reading your comments and doing some research, what I want is a modern 21ft Scott Frieght Canoe, powered by my 5hp motor.
http://tworiverscanoe.com/canoes.html
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Old 09-22-2019, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
After reading your comments and doing some research, what I want is a modern 21ft Scott Frieght Canoe, powered by my 5hp motor.
http://tworiverscanoe.com/canoes.html
That looks like a winner. Especially with a kevlar hull... I built a lumberyard skiff (15'6" almost 7' beam) with a 30 hp. You can build them plain, simple and cheap, haul a couple tons of oysters at displacement speed with 10-15hp. Needs a trailer but I guess a 21 ft canoe doesn't fit in the back of a pickup either. I just think if things get that bad, water will be where everyone ends up. Always been that way. Could be good if you get to water early and fortify somewhere remote. Then all of the unmanned nuclear reactors melt down and it might not matter where you go.
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Old 09-22-2019, 07:11 PM
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I haul my 18ft Hobie without a trailer. I have a frame that plugs into my
hitch receiver and gives it extra support. My truck has a 8 foot bed. If you
strap the **** out of it, you could probably do the same with a 21 footer
as long as you put the heavy end in first. Not saying you wouldn't get a ticket,
or, if your not a professional driver (like me), you won't swing into something.
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Old 09-22-2019, 07:14 PM
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Looked up Scott freighter canoes, pretty impressive boats that sound like they’ll work for what you plan to do.
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Old 09-23-2019, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck Vet View Post
I haul my 18ft Hobie without a trailer. I have a frame that plugs into my
hitch receiver and gives it extra support. My truck has a 8 foot bed. If you
strap the **** out of it, you could probably do the same with a 21 footer
as long as you put the heavy end in first. Not saying you wouldn't get a ticket,
or, if your not a professional driver (like me), you won't swing into something.
Thank you for pointing this out.

I used to transport my 17ft Old Towne on top my full sized (8ft bed) pickup, using cargo bars mounted to the shell. This left 5ft sticking up behind, and 4ft in front (tied to the front of my cab). I currently transport my 14ft portabote by strapping it to the cargo bars on my Jeep Wrangler.

Neither solution would work great with a 21ft canoe, and I really dont want to tow a trailer, or be forced to use a boat ramp. I noticed that they build shorter freighter canoes which would likely be a better compromise solution. I dont want to carry anything longer than my current boat on top my Jeep.
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Old 09-23-2019, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
One of the low probability futures is a complete break down of society in the US. With the failure of the power grid, communications, and transportation, it is possible we would also loose law enforcement.

It occured to me that if crime gets bad enough, I might be forced to keep moving, and one way to do that is to travel along a major river. This does not sound like much fun, but what thpe of boat would work for someone constantly moving up and down a major river with a large store of supplies.

No power and no transportation means this boat must be easily propelled by oars, paddles, or sail, and I would also want to carry a small outboard motor.
I figgure I need to carry two people, a 450 lb grub stake, and 200 lbs of gear. What boat would Pasquinel use today.
Man your really asking a lot out of a small boat! With that much weight you will over load a 15ft jon boat and I dont know of a Kayak that can handle that nuch weight if a Hobbie Pro angler tandam wont handle it. That much weight would be pushing your envelope on a 14ft V skiff.
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuniticFringeInc View Post
Man your really asking a lot out of a small boat! With that much weight you will over load a 15ft jon boat and I dont know of a Kayak that can handle that nuch weight if a Hobbie Pro angler tandam wont handle it. That much weight would be pushing your envelope on a 14ft V skiff.
Agreed, I picked out my gear and estimated my grub stake, based on what I figgured I need for one year, if I was living on a major river.
Next I compared that pile with the volume/payload of my Jeep, then found out I would be maxing out the capacity of my current boat.

Scenarios like this are mostly about figguring out what it take to survive for one year, then learning how hard it is to carry all that stuff.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:11 PM
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I have a 16 foot Jon boat that I built a plywood deck spanning over the front 3 seats. I put hatches in the wells between the seats and carried my food and gear in there for the trip. I went on a 6 week river trip (Santa Fe and Suwanee) in Florida a few years ago with it. Detachable shelter top on the boat.

I was able to carry a couple of hundred pounds of food and gear with ease and did not have to buy supplies even one time during the trip.

You can get Jon boats up into the 20 some foot range (and more) that would suit your purposes extremely well. I just bought a wide 14 foot Jon boat for my son who lives very close to you and we are considering the same thing you are in a time of crisis when the roads and bridges might be impassable. He and family (with luck and fortitude) can reach my place of safety via river (many miles). Our thoughts are that even though danger exists, night time travel is possible and likely safer than on the highway. He took it back home with him a few weeks ago when he was here on vacation.

One big thing you may not be thinking of is that most canoes (the attachment didn't address it) are displacement hulls and Jon boats do plane. I also have a 19 foot square stern Grumman aluminum canoe and the fuel consumption is fantastically different (probably 10 to one or more [experience]) between the canoe and the Jon boat when using a motor. Plus speed (like out running danger) is equally different. Probably 30 knots vs five.

I use the Jon boat far more than the canoe and the only advantage I experience for the canoe over the Jon is a tad bit more maneuverability in rapids with the canoe.

I use a 10 HP (9.9) Johnson on both and see no need for bigger and I am many times loaded very heavy. Plus I have an electric trolling motor which would be good for stealth. I'm thinking that one of these days I'll mount a small solar panel on the Jon to keep the battery charged (quietly).
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Old 09-23-2019, 11:34 PM
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There are places that they still transport via human powered watercraft!

https://www.sourisriver.com/quetico-185

This company makes several boats that should work for you as well as they work in The Boundary Waters!

They’re based on the freight canoes of yesteryear unlike many of the race canoe based boats others try to pass off as freight haulers!

SD
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:37 AM
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A PS to my above post is that the present plan in the case of SHTF, is for my son to take his pickup with the boat along with him and follow the river as much and as long as he is able. If he makes it all the way with the p/u GREAT!!. If the roads become impassable, the boat is a better alternative than walking. (A properly equipped boat)
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:26 AM
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I see a boat as more of a way to get food than for travel through shtf.
I have a 17' old town discovery. It has been loaded down quite heavy and been some 100+ mile trips (usually week long trips).
I would vote canoe:
It moves quietly through the water
It can be portaged easily
It can go places many wider boats can't
It can be hidden more easily (pulled out of the water and out of sight up on the bank).
I think mine is rated for 1100 pounds?
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