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Old 10-11-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
whats wrong with the NKJV?

Not as bad as most of the newer versions but still plenty wrong with it. Long story which probably deserves it's own thread. The AKJV is hands down the most accurate version of the Bible for any English speaking truth-seeker.

https://archive.org/search.php?query...t%3A%22NKJV%22


"New Age Bible Versions" is the most exhaustive study on the issue of various translations that I've ever read. I wasn't as convinced that the KJV was the best choice for me until after reading that book. Super eye-opening!!!


https://www.amazon.com/New-Age-Bible.../dp/0963584502
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Old 10-11-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
whats wrong with the NKJV?
Nothing is wrong with the NKJV just like there is nothing wrong with a Size 6 shoe. It's just that it does not fit me.

I found the word choice and sentence structure of NKJV incompatible with the way people talk today, the way I talk today. Let's take Joshua 1:9 for instance.

Have I not commanded you? Be strong and of good courage; do not be afraid, nor be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.Ē
NKJV

  1. Usually, people today ask positive questions. 'Have I commanded you' is in line with today's speech patterns. Throwing in a "not" is not.
  2. Be of good courage? Archaic.
  3. Dismayed? Archaic or academic.
  4. For <the person> is with you wherever you go? Archaic.
Honestly, I am not a language expert but to suffer through verse with a foreign way of speaking - EVEN with words I know is not beneficial. There is no way I'm going to read a variant of Middle English when I have 4 objections to every verse wording. If the Bible translations were only like this, I would NEVER read it.

And the pressure to do so from the KJV-ism only is ridiculous! There are at least 3 dozen translations of the Bible into English and I am only being asked to justify why not read a translation with James in the title.

By contrast, there are translations that use words and sentence structures commonly used today in America. The CEV fits me. I like how the last sentence, implies a relationship God has with us. Compare "the (impersonal) Lord your God" in NKJV to the personal CEV, "I am the lord your god." I even like the emotional emphasis of the 2nd sentence.

Iíve commanded you to be strong and brave. Donít ever be afraid or discouraged! I am the Lord your God, and I will be there to help you wherever you go.
CEV
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Nothing is wrong with the NKJV just like there is nothing wrong with a Size 6 shoe. It's just that it does not fit me.

I found the word choice and sentence structure of NKJV incompatible with the way people talk today, the way I talk today. Let's take Joshua 1:9 for instance.

Have I not commanded you? Be strong and of good courage; do not be afraid, nor be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.Ē
NKJV

  1. Usually, people today ask positive questions. 'Have I commanded you' is in line with today's speech patterns. Throwing in a "not" is not.
  2. Be of good courage? Archaic.
  3. Dismayed? Archaic or academic.
  4. For <the person> is with you wherever you go? Archaic.
Honestly, I am not a language expert but to suffer through verse with a foreign way of speaking - EVEN with words I know is not beneficial. There is no way I'm going to read a variant of Middle English when I have 4 objections to every verse wording. If the Bible translations were only like this, I would NEVER read it.

And the pressure to do so from the KJV-ism only is ridiculous! There are at least 3 dozen translations of the Bible into English and I am only being asked to justify why not read a translation with James in the title.

By contrast, there are translations that use words and sentence structures commonly used today in America. The CEV fits me. I like how the last sentence, implies a relationship God has with us. Compare "the (impersonal) Lord your God" in NKJV to the personal CEV, "I am the lord your god." I even like the emotional emphasis of the 2nd sentence.

Iíve commanded you to be strong and brave. Donít ever be afraid or discouraged! I am the Lord your God, and I will be there to help you wherever you go.
CEV

One of the biggest problems with modern Christians is that they want the Bible and the gospel to conform to them instead of conforming themselves to God's truth. The fact that KJV readers almost unanimously believe that Jesus Christ is God vs. New Age Bible readers denying that fact is evidence that the version of the Bible a person reads is very significant.



It's like comparing the Christian hymns of old to modern "Christian" rock. Two different worlds and two different messages.
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ActionJackson View Post
One of the biggest problems with modern Christians is that they want the Bible and the gospel to conform to them instead of conforming themselves to God's truth. The fact that KJV readers ...
Give me a break! Some want to read in our 21st century language. This doesn't mean we are self-centered.

You sure are KJV-centered. You do know that Jesus did not speak Middle English, right?
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:53 PM
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Some new world translations leave out original Hebrew words. Such as "not" in the KJV. And sometimes whole passages.

Joshua 1:9*in the KJV. Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.*

The word translated "have not" is "lo" in the Hebrew. The original documents have that word in there. That was the inspired word God gave Joshua. It wasn't a word the KJV translators added on their own.

When a new world translation leaves out words and/or changes words, is it still the word of God.

Christ said in Mat 4:4* But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

What other words and/or passages of God's Word are left out? And How would you know?
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkerpv View Post
Some new world translations leave out original Hebrew words.
Suddenly this thread on the old covenant has turned into a discussion about translations.

OK then. I am 100% OK with what you wrote. 100% OK with thought translations. Literal translations are bad form today. (Don't make the translation an idol.)

Thought translations were made for people like me. Literal translations were made for people like you, AJ, etc.

Like the proliferation of denominations, the proliferation of translations serve God and diverse people.
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Old 10-11-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Give me a break! Some want to read in our 21st century language. This doesn't mean we are self-centered.

You sure are KJV-centered. You do know that Jesus did not speak Middle English, right?
Jesus didn't speak modern English either. The KJV was translated by 54 top scholars and translated directly from the Textus Receptus. The New Age versions were translated by single individuals or a very small handful of translators who had curious backgrounds in many cases. Some were tied to the "spiritualist" movement while others had certified mental issues. Most of them believed in blending eastern religion with western religion thus forming a New Age, global religion.

The danger with reading the New Age versions is that the reader doesn't know what portions of the Bible they're missing.

The book "New Age Bible Versions" does numerous side-by-side comparisons between the KJV and the New Age stuff. Great read if you ever get the chance and have the time.
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Old 10-11-2019, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Suddenly this thread on the old covenant has turned into a discussion about translations.

OK then. I am 100% OK with what you wrote. 100% OK with thought translations. Literal translations are bad form today. (Don't make the translation an idol.)

Thought translations were made for people like me. Literal translations were made for people like you, AJ, etc.

Like the proliferation of denominations, the proliferation of translations serve God and diverse people.

I think that knowing what God literally meant is extremely important. Just getting a general "feeling" of what He meant is missing the mark. In the OT, the Israelites were required to know exactly what God commanded. Not just a general idea of what he sorta meant.
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Old 10-11-2019, 04:46 PM
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I think that knowing what God literally meant is extremely important.
Not an answer to my question of whether or not you realize Jesus did not speak Middle English.

I do agree - hence thought translations, which translate what he literally meant not said using a foreign language in ancient syntax. Otherwise, you should only be reading the original Hebrew and Greek.
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Old 10-11-2019, 05:36 PM
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When God's people disobey God, and teach others to disobey God, isn't that called lawlessness? Where do we learn to obey God? Easy, in the Torah (the first 5 books of the Bible).
Most religious leaders, Stanley included, teaches that we are no longer under the law of God.
And many are teaching that the Son (God of the New Testament) has replaced the Father (God of the Old Testament). More lawlessness.
Problem is that God will not hold His people guiltless just because a leader gave them bad information. We still have access to God's Word which contains the Truth, and designed to be read by a 3rd grader. So, are we as smart as a 3rd grader?
Then, go read what God has to say about lawlessness and His people.
BTW, God's people are already saved by God, and aren't trying to earn good favors from God.
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Fire View Post
When God's people disobey God, and teach others to disobey God, isn't that called lawlessness? Where do we learn to obey God? Easy, in the Torah (the first 5 books of the Bible).
I have to admit my CEV Study Bible notes in the Old Testament truly open up the meaning of the text. I get a lot from it. Reading Jeremiah now, which deeply delves into what you are saying.

One poster suggested we would tithe more, not being under the law. Several others said it no longer applies to us. I think the lessons of disobedience apply to us. Fascinating subject.
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Old 10-12-2019, 01:44 PM
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Default Jeremiah 10:8 Applies Today?

Idols are worthless,
and anyone who worships them
is a fool!

Jeremiah 10:8 (CEV)


CEV Study Note:
The gods Jeremiah spoke against then were made of material things and today's gods are also made of materialistic things. People who make idols are so stupid ... merely a joke, and when the time is right, they will be destroyed (v 14-15). This applies now as it did back then.
Agree or disagree? Why or why not?
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:40 AM
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Old Vs New Covenant Short answer.
Quote:
It was something along the lines of the New Covenant completely replaced the Old Covenant.

the Nazarene assembly held the 10 Commandments and tithing to be rules of conduct still in effect. So, this brings up the bigger question of how to apply old covenant principles today?

IF there are no old covenant principles that apply today, what then is the purpose of reading the Old Testament? Is it just reference? Understanding historical context? I look forward to your thoughtful reply.
This is truly a great topic, but I believe one that will take several posts or even threads to fully explore.
Here is my short answer.
The God of the Old Testament (covenant) is the same God of the New Testament (covenant). -
Quote:
Mal 3:6* For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.*
Even in the Old Testament, salvation was by faith.
Martin Luther was reading Rom 1:17*
Quote:
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.*
when God opened his eyes to how salvation really was obtained. Rom 1:17 was a quote from Hab 2:4*
Quote:
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Even in the Old Testament, salvation was by faith.
And God doesn't break His covenant.
Quote:
Psalms 89:34 - My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
Jesus Christ said Mat 5:17*
Quote:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The Law and covenant are still active today.

I am not sure how this all fits together, but I think it has to do with Christ's return and the establishment of a new Heaven and new earth.

The Law of Moses was given to the Hebrews, not the world.
Quote:
Lev 26:46* These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.*
Quote:
Psa 78:5* For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:*
The Law was for the Hebrews and has not been done away with. However, Christians are under a new law, a law of grace.
Quote:
Rom 6:14* For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(Paul was writing to the Christians at Rome.) Only Christians are under Grace. A person is saved thru grace, but the whole world is not under grace, only Christians. The whole world is still under the curse of sin.
Quote:
Rom 5:12* Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
This was before the law was given. So, the world was under the curse of sin before the Law was given. Thus the Great Flood during Noah's time and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah during Abraham's time.

And the world still is under the curse of sin.

The law was only given to the Hebrews.

Christians are not under the Law but under Grace.

As to the principles of the old covenant or Old Testament,
Even though the Law was only given to the Hebrews and is not required for Christians, there are some principles that are good and valid for today. Though not keeping them will not condemn anyone to Hell.

An example is tithing. The principle of tithing, giving one tenth of income, possessions, time, etc was a requirement of the law. In fact the requirement was for even more than a tenth. However, there is no mention of tithing in the New Testament. As a Christian is under Grace, a Christian does not have to tithe. However the principle of tithing was evident before the law was given.
Quote:
Gen 28:22* And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
*
Quote:
Heb 7:1* For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;*Heb 7:2* To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;*
So the principle of tithing was evident before the Law was given. Not required but given out of respect, love, honor to God.

Giving is a principle and a requirement for the Christian, not for salvation, but to show the Love the Christian has for God and other brothers and sisters in Christ. Jesus Christ said in Luk 6:38*
Quote:
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Paul said in 2Co 9:6*
Quote:
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.*2Co 9:7* Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.*
So giving for the Christian is a requirement, not for salvation, but for blessing from God. It is done out of obedience, respect, honor and worship to our God and Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why read and study the Old Testament. I agree it is good for reference and historical context. There are other reasons also.
The experiences of the Old Testament people are good as examples of what to do or not to do. The calamities of the tribes of Israel.
Quote:
1Co 10:11* Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.*
The faithfulness of Daniel and his three friends. The fiery furnace and the Lion's den.

The Scriptures (Old Testament) prepared Timothy to become a Christian
Quote:
2Ti 3:15* And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
They testify of Jesus Christ.
Quote:
Joh 5:39* Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.*
There are other reasons to read and study the Old Testament. But this post is getting too long and others sometimes don't read long posts. So they will be the subject of another post/thread.
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