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Old 12-14-2018, 11:06 AM
cat1978 cat1978 is offline
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China is an evil slave master trying actively to enslave us all, first through technology and economy and later on through military means.

Read this:

How the 'Five Eyes' cooked up the campaign to kill Huawei

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...13-p50m24.html

China is kidnapping Western people at will now (not even related to political matters):

https://ewn.co.za/2018/12/13/bring-t...ained-in-china

https://ewn.co.za/2018/12/12/sa-moth...lease-in-china

Once they enslave us they will destroy our civilization and use as as human products.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:01 PM
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sabotage39k sabotage39k is offline
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So even as time went on the US and EU still cannot effectively negotiate the right approach to confronting China after the fact. After US imposed their own tariffs and threat of more tariffs on EU. Suddenly, now a host of other things are getting in the way. The trust is gone. Plus, China negotiated their own anti-US alliance with them when colluding to change WTO rules to work against US. So, in conclusion it is appearing to be to little too late. The negotiations should have been done right from the start without imposing tariffs in arena of trust. EU is not Mexico and Canada that you can just bully around and end up negotiating USMCA. Every situation is different. I've learned that in business. Once approach for once scenario does not necessary work for another. Trump is one dimensional. His negotiating tactics might have worked with our neighbors, but with the EU? They see him as repulsive and bullying strong arm tactics aren't going to work with them. They are too arrogant and full of themselves for that. As far as social entitlements that is another discussion.
If the Europeans build a coalition with the Chinese that just shows they were never serious about confronting the Chinese in the first place. Most European countries are fair weather friends. They cry against the Russians but send them billions for energy which turns into weapons aimed at them. They join in on sanctions against terrorist nations and then sell them arms under the table.


We pay a large portion of their own protection. We pay to help bail out their banks.

They complain about tariffs but they have VAT taxes which end up working as tariffs. They create their own sets of regulations on products that also severe as trade barriers. And you are pointing out above how they are creating another tax which is essentially aimed at foreign businesses. They are a trading adversary just as China is. They are just less aggressive and don't pose a military threat.
Then why is kudlow trying to recruit them as an ally against China? With no real success thus far I might add. I agree with what you are saying about VAT, protection, etc but here is the thing. Sometimes you have to align yourself with those willing to back your play against the bigger fish. You can always address your differences with them later once the big fish is caught. It’s called geo politics. Going cowboy style coming in the door blasting at everyone with no back up is only going to get you killed.
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Old 12-14-2018, 03:38 PM
txprep txprep is online now
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The pressure is continuing to build. I dont know who will crack first, trump or the chinese, but as trump indicated, the chinese will be hurt more by a trade war than us.


Quote:
DONGGUAN, China — China’s consumers and businesses are losing confidence. Car sales have plunged. The housing market is stumbling. Some factories are letting workers off for the big Lunar New Year holiday two months early.
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On the world stage, he has been forced to make concessions to the United States as President Trump’s trade war intensifies.
China has actions which are essentially the same as tariffs. They use these all the time.

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Thanks to the government’s tight hold on important industries and the financial sector, it has more levers to pull in case of a downturn than practically any other country. Beijing’s efforts in the spring to wean the economy off debt, a major cause of the slowdown, are now being reversed.

Already, China has ramped up the sort of government-led spending that bailed out its economy in the past. At Xuzhou Construction Machinery Group, a state-owned giant that supplies many highway and rail builders, sales have jumped 50 percent from a year ago, said Wang Min, the company’s chairman.

Regulators have also ordered banks to lend more to private businesses. Ministers have promised to compensate businesses for not laying off workers. Environmental controls are being less stringently enforced, making it easier for polluting factories to stay open.

Chinese routinely lie in economic data. Im not saying they always do, but they will when it suits their agenda.

Quote:
On paper as always, the Chinese economy looks fine. Official data shows it grew 6.5 percent in the three months that ended in September, compared with a year earlier.

But beneath the surface, a sharp slowdown is building. Foreign investment plunged last month. Auto sales over the past three months have fallen by record percentages. Floor space completed, one gauge of the housing market’s health, has slumped this year. Sentiment among Chinese purchasing managers has soured.
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Old 12-15-2018, 11:25 AM
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It still amazes me that some here in America are practically drooling over the prospect that Trump must fail at all costs, even if it means America fails along with him.

Hell yes America first. People wanting cheap **** is what caused the jobs to leave. Now that someone is trying to get jobs back here it's wrong.
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Old 12-15-2018, 11:52 AM
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It still amazes me that some here in America are practically drooling over the prospect that Trump must fail at all costs, even if it means America fails along with him.

Hell yes America first. People wanting cheap **** is what caused the jobs to leave. Now that someone is trying to get jobs back here it's wrong.
Cohen learned the consequences of being loyal following blindly. I like that catchy political come back. Heard it all before on right wing propaganda. They heard it during Vietnam when people were trying to stop a war that was unwinnable killing thousands of our national treasures. They heard this during the Iraq war when people question whether or not we were really going after terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. The greatest check on political power is the people. The diversity of people voices when they see something being done wrong or the wrong way. Losing our allies to me is tragic. Sabotaging our economy in a self inflicted way is tragic. It won't hurt him, but it will the people. History has shown us that protectionist trade policies do not work in the long run. It's inefficient, intrusive, anti-conservative, anti free market, and more importantly anti-capitalism. Voicing that concern is what it means to be an American....
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:09 PM
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Free trade is wonderful, as long as its free. But when the Canadians protect their industry while we don't,.....that's not free trade. Never was.

The only way to get to free trade is to tear down their Tariffs with our own.


If we don't, we lose.


We have a better economy than China, and Canada. The Poor Chinese can't even afford to eat their own Pork, or breath their air.

They hope the Democrats will get rid of Trump so they can go back to taking advantage of us. But the people deserve a level playing field.
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:42 PM
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Free trade is wonderful, as long as its free. But when the Canadians protect their industry while we don't,.....that's not free trade. Never was.

The only way to get to free trade is to tear down their Tariffs with our own.


If we don't, we lose.


We have a better economy than China, and Canada. The Poor Chinese can't even afford to eat their own Pork, or breath their air.

They hope the Democrats will get rid of Trump so they can go back to taking advantage of us. But the people deserve a level playing field.
I am sure you feel that way. I am sure alot of people really say this to themselves to justify it, but the reality is different. If people really wanted free trade than the transatlantic trade deal would have continued to be negotiated. That was a deal proposed with EU. The trans pacific deal was for southwest Asia designed to keep china out and align ourselves with the rest of Asia, but it was abandoned. The reality is that Americans just don't want to compete with foreign labor. They essentially can't. That is the reality. They are faster, cheaper, and more reliable. Americans are fat, overpaid, lazy, spoiled, and feel entitled.

This has nothing to do with people wanting free trade. It is just a nice slogan to wear on their conservative collar until they feel the effects. Then a democratic nationalist comes along and gives them cover to come out of the free trade conservative shade. No way they were going to align themselves with a socialist led argument of the past 10 years when progressives were pushing for tariffs on China. No way..I get it though and it's a sentiment that is loyal and self preserving. But looking at it objectively, business does not have those types of emotions. Business always operate to their most efficient capacity and when supply markets are unstable and volatile they contract. Even if one succeeded and opened up the market it still does not solve the inability to compete with foreign labor problem. So while we go back to an inefficient system instead of closing the free trade market to China, it evened the playing field for them to compete with us on realigning economic partnerships. They are all over Africa, south America, Almost all of Asia and we have North America. In the long run inefficiency will just lead to low confidence in the consumer base and the companies we were trying to keep in the US are going to leave anyways to take advantage of a less restrictive trade market. Companies always follow the market. The majority of the major ones don't care about made in America. They have a global outlook.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-tramples-them
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Old 12-15-2018, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sabotage39k View Post
Cohen learned the consequences of being loyal following blindly. I like that catchy political come back. Heard it all before on right wing propaganda. They heard it during Vietnam when people were trying to stop a war that was unwinnable killing thousands of our national treasures. They heard this during the Iraq war when people question whether or not we were really going after terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. The greatest check on political power is the people. The diversity of people voices when they see something being done wrong or the wrong way. Losing our allies to me is tragic. Sabotaging our economy in a self inflicted way is tragic. It won't hurt him, but it will the people. History has shown us that protectionist trade policies do not work in the long run. It's inefficient, intrusive, anti-conservative, anti free market, and more importantly anti-capitalism. Voicing that concern is what it means to be an American....
What's that got to do with tariffs or the price of rice in China?
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Old 10-23-2019, 03:04 AM
goldenegg goldenegg is offline
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summed up nicely
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