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Old 02-13-2020, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Broadwing View Post
You were talking about filter/mask cleaning! I’m inquiring about why perfectly suited up health care professionals are getting infected while using standard disciplined disease protection protocols! BTW, these infection control protocols are recommended by WHO and the US CDC! If you have an answer for that beside washing your mask and changing filters that might help. Sorry if you were offended by my pervious comment but I was a Nuclear Biological Chemical NCO trainer for my unit and I attended the US Army NBC Basic and Advanced Course.....I doubt you’ve had the dubious pleasure of living in a chemical protection suit at MOPP 4 level for 72 hours strait while performing under simulated chemical attack.
I worked for a year in a smelter as a young guy to earn money for college, 100% wearing of an MSA Comfo respirator with organic gas and dust filter add ons in the most extreme conditions imaginable that you might actually survive.

SO2, Sulfurous and sulfuric acid gases, oxygen depletion, massive lead and zinc fine dust exposure, extreme heat and shoveling piles of lead and zinc dust with extreme heat and humidity. Any defect in a mask seal or valve seal and your airway would simply close from the acid gas exposure causing airway spasm. No air. Monthly blood tests for lead.

I know a little bit about respirators.

None of the doctors in china wore the right PPE. The WHO and the CDC are wrong if they think disposable no face seal N95s are the right PPE for airborne virus exposure.

I hate to keep repeating this but it is vitally important that the message gets out to the medical profession especially that they are not protected by those stupid disposable masks that have at least 10% flow bypassing along the cheeks.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:57 PM
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Virus-death-toll-nears-1400-in-China

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
I worked for a year in a smelter as a young guy, 100% wearing of an MSA Comfo respirator with organic gas and dust filter add ons in the most extreme conditions inaginable that you might actually survive.

SO2, Sulfurous and sulfuric acid gases, oxygen depletion, extreme heat and shoveling piles of lead and zinc dust with extreme heat and humidity. Any defect in a mask seal or valve seal and your airway would simply close from the acid gas exposure causing airway spasm. No air.

I know a little bit about respirators.

None of the doctors in china wore the right PPE. The WHO and the CDC are wrong if they think disposable no face seal N95s are the right PPE for airborne virus exposure.

I hate to keep repeating this but it is vitally important that the message gets out to the medical profession especially that they are not protected by those stupid disposable masks that have at least 10% flow bypassing along the cheeks.
Good for you on your knowledgeable experiences! Thatís great! Iím not trying to play my dogs bigger than your dog here.

Since your not, nor am I an epidemiologist or micro biologist specializing in corona virus prevention all you can do is speculate. Your not an expert on masks even if you think you are as Iím not an expert in filter maintenance but I do know how to take care of my equipment through training and practice in a NBC environment.

Iím just asking questions that I really donít think your qualified nor am I to answer on these Doctors and Nurses getting infected. If I was you I would still be very careful on citing 3M studies and then telling others especially with children this is what they need to do. God forbid your wrong and someone becomes infected because you say this is the way to go!!!
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:03 AM
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Good for you on your knowledgeable experiences! Thatís great! Iím not trying to play my dogs bigger than your dog here.

Since your not, nor am I an epidemiologist or micro biologist specializing in corona virus prevention all you can do is speculate. Your not an expert on masks even if you think you are as Iím not an expert in filter maintenance but I do know how to take care of my equipment through training and practice in a NBC environment.

Iím just asking questions that I really donít think your qualified nor am I to answer on these Doctors and Nurses getting infected. If I was you I would still be very careful on citing 3M studies and then telling others especially with children this is what they need to do. God forbid your wrong and someone becomes infected because you say this is the way to go!!!
You keep saying I'm not an expert. I am an expert.
I'll send you a PM so as not to derail any further.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Earnie View Post
I wonder how this will affect tax filing deadline on 15 April? May not be anyone in the IRS office to process returns. Unless it's all automated now.
Get submitted NOW so can avoid a shutdown. Which may be the only want to ever balance the FED budget. Sent the swampies home and they won't be granting/spending.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:25 AM
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You keep saying I'm not an expert. I am an expert.
I'll send you a PM so as not to derail any further.

Maybe take all the mask stuff to the relevant thread?

https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...d.php?t=936636
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:31 AM
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Maybe take all the mask stuff to the relevant thread?

https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...d.php?t=936636
Because I am trying to get the doctors to finally realize they need to improve their PPE before they go into battle and fall on their swords. But yeah, I think I am done trying.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:36 AM
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US MARINE CORPS


https://www.marines.mil/News/Message...-for-2019-nov/

02/12/2020


R 112111Z FEB 20
MARADMIN 082/20
MSGID/GENADMIN/CMC WASHINGTON DC PPO PS
SUBJ/U.S. MARINE CORPS DISEASE CONTAINMENT PREPAREDNESS PLANNING GUIDANCE FOR 2019 NOVEL CORONAVIRUS (2019 nCoV)//
REF/A/MSGID:DOC/YMD: 20190115//
REF/B/MSGID:DOC/YMD: 20190328//
REF/C/CONGRESS//
REF/D/CONGRESS//
REF/E/MSGID:DOC/YMD:20200207//
REF/F/MSGID:DOC/YMD:20171204//
REF/G/MSGID:DOC/YMD: 20190612//
REF/H/MSGID:GENADMIN/OSD/042146ZFEB20//
REF/I/MSGID:DOC/DOD GCP 3551-13/YMD: 20130226//
REF/J/MSGID:DOC/YMD: 20161122//
REF/K/MSGID:GENADMIN/HQMC PP&O EXORD//YMD:030003ZFEB20//
REF/L/MSGID:DOC/YMD: 20130807//
NARR/REF A IS THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICESí NATIONAL HEALTH SECURITY STRATEGY 2019-2022 WHICH DISCUSSES STRATEGY TO PREVENT, DETECT, ASSESS, PREPARE FOR, MITIGATE, RESPOND TO, AND RECOVER FROM HEALTH SECURITY THREATS. REF B IS DOD INSTRUCTION 6200.03 PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT WITHIN THE DOD, WHICH PROVIDES DIRECTION TO ENSURE MISSION ASSURANCE AND READINESS FOR PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCIES. REF C IS TITLE 42, U.S.C. SECTIONS 243, 249 AND 264, 265, AND 271. REF D IS TITLE 42, CFR PART 70 AND 71. REFS C AND D CONTAIN REGULATIONS FOR COOPERATION AND PREVENTING THE INTRODUCTION, TRANSMISSION AND SPREAD OF COMMUNICABLE DISEASES AND/OR OTHER HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCES FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES INTO THE UNITED STATES. REF E IS UNDERSECRETARY OF DEFENSE MEMORANDUM; FORCE HEALTH PROTECTION SUPPLEMENT 1 - DOD GUIDANCE FOR MONITORING PERSONNEL RETURNING FROM CHINA DURING THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK, WHICH PROVIDES DISEASE CONTAINMENT RESTRICTION OF MOVEMENT GUIDANCE FOR ALL SERVICE MEMBERS RETURNING FROM MAINLAND CHINA. REF F IS MCO 6220.2 DISEASE CONTAINMENT PLANNING WHICH PROVIDES GUIDANCE TO RESPOND TO AND MITIGATE BIOLOGICAL EVENTS WITH PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY IMPLICATIONS AND ALIGNS ORGANIZATIONAL ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES WITHIN THE MARINE CORPS FOR DISEASE CONTAINMENT PLANNING (DCP) ACTIVITIES. REF G IS DOD INSTRUCTION 6055.17 DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT PROGRAM, WHICH OUTLINES REQUIREMENTS TO MANAGE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCIES IAW THE PROVISIONS OF THE INSTRUCTION. REF H IS OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE GUIDANCE WHICH CONTAINS OVERARCHING INFORMATION ON THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS. REF I IS GLOBAL CAMPAIGN PLAN 3551, WHICH DIRECTS USNORTHCOM TO EXECUTE ITS PANDEMIC PLAN AND SUPPORTING GEOGRAPHIC COMBATANT COMMANDS TO EXECUTE THEIR PANDEMIC PLANS IN RESPONSE TO THE NCOV OUTBREAK. REF J IS MCO 3440.8A, INSTALLATION CHEMICAL, BIOLOGICAL, RADIOLOGICAL, NUCLEAR AND HIGH YIELD EXPLOSIVE (CBRNE) PREPAREDNESS, WHICH PROVIDES ADDITIONAL GUIDANCE ON THE PLANNING AND MANAGEMENT OF BIOLOGICAL THREATS. REF K IS HQMC RESPONSE TO NOVEL CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK EXORD WHICH PROVIDES AMPLIFYING COORDINATION INFORMATION. REF L IS MCO 3504.2A, OPERATIONS EVENT INCIDENT REPORT (OPREP-3) REPORTING. POC/CHRISTOPHER BURCH/CIV/UNIT: PP&O PS PSP IP/TEL: (703) 692-4491/NIPR E-MAIL: [email protected]//
GENTEXT/REMARKS/1. Situation.
1.A. General.
1.A.1. Commanders will take specific actions to review and validate Disease Containment Plans to prepare for and respond to a potential occurrence of the 2019 Novel (New) Coronavirus (2019-nCoV).
1.A.2. The current threat of the 2019 Novel Coronavirus has raised concern that this virus could result in a pandemic disease. In such a scenario, nCoV could spread, infecting U.S. personnel, and threaten the operational readiness of the U.S. Marine Corps.
1.A.3. The Marine Corpsí response to a pandemic outbreak focuses on five major areas: 1) Force Health Protection (FHP); 2) Disease Containment Planning (DCP) and Readiness; 3) Continuity of Operations (COOP); 4) Defense Support of Civilian Authorities (DSCA); and 5) Support to U.S. Government response efforts.
1.B. Background.
1.B.1. An outbreak of a new (novel) coronavirus is rapidly evolving, but currently poses a LOW RISK to personnel located in CONUS. The 2019-nCoV is a viral respiratory disease related to Middle-East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS-CoV) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS). Symptoms of 2019-nCoV may include fever, cough, and shortness of breath.
1.B.2. Chinese health authorities identified 2019-nCoV as the cause of the pneumonia outbreak in Wuhan, China. There are confirmed cases in over 20 countries, including the United States, with validated cases in Arizona, California, Illinois, Massachusetts, Washington State, and Wisconsin, with one reported death of an American citizen in China.
1.B.3. The U.S. State Department issued a LEVEL 4 DO NOT TRAVEL advisory to China on 30 January 2020. The World Health Organization (WHO) has categorized risk as VERY HIGH for China, and HIGH globally, and declared that nCoV constitutes a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC).
1.B.4. Although the United States Government, in conjunction with private industry, is conducting research to identify protocols that may treat the 2019-nCoV disease, there are no U.S. Food and Drug Administration-approved treatments at this time. Standard treatment for 2019-nCoV includes prompt implementation of recommended infection prevention and control measures and supportive management of complications. Per the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a person under investigation for 2019-nCoV infection should be isolated, and healthcare professionals, and local or state health departments, should be notified immediately.
1.B.5. Presently, the U.S. Marine Corps is planning, conducting routine surveillance, and commencing engagement activities, to assure and solidify collaborative relationships, and inform all personnel, to be prepared for disease containment operations and support.
1.B.6. This MARADMIN aligns with validating Disease Containment and Installation CBRNE Protection Plans IAW references F and J.
2. Mission. The U.S. Marine Corps will prepare for potential outbreaks of 2019-nCoV. If an outbreak occurs, the Marine Corps mitigates, responds, and recovers from the effects in order to maintain force readiness.
3. Execution.
3.A. Commanderís Intent.
3.A.1. Method.
3.A.1.A. Plan, and take preparatory and precautionary actions to ensure that an outbreak of 2019-nCoV does not incapacitate Marine Corps forces, installations, and facilities. If 2019-nCoV is introduced on USMC installations and facilities, or within the Fleet Marine Force (FMF), execute plans and procedures to improve Force Health Protection (FHP) and readiness.
3.A.1.B. Planning will address protection of all Marines, government civilian, contract workforce personnel, and military family members.
3.A.1.C. Planning will address FHP, both in garrison and during deployment. Per reference E, the following prescriptive measures must be adhered to:
3.A.1.C.1. Identify all Marines returning from mainland China after 2 February 2020 and place service members under a 14-day restriction of movement (ROM).
3.A.1.C.2. During the 14-day ROM:
3.A.1.C.2.A. Restrict Marines to their residence for a 14-day ROM period, starting from the day of departure from mainland China.
3.A.1.C.2.B. Marines will be assessed by cognizant medical staff (by phone consultation or in person), as soon as possible, within the first 24 hours of arrival to home station or their final destination, for the development of fever or symptoms of 2019-nCoV.
3.A.1.C.2.C. Marines living in open-bay settings, or rooms with shared bathrooms and/or kitchen facilities, will be placed in separate lodging to span the 14-day ROM period. The command to which the Marine is assigned will arrange for the separate lodging.
3.A.1.C.2.D. Marines will be assessed daily for fever and symptoms by cognizant medical staff (by phone consultation or in person). For all in-person assessments of members, (including those which are asymptomatic), medical personnel should wear appropriate PPE.
3.A.1.C.2.E. Marines will separate themselves from other people in the home/dwelling if residing with roommates/family members to avoid sharing personal items, to the extent possible pursuant to existing guidance.
3.A.1.C.2.F. Marines may not travel, visit public/crowded areas, or use public transportation and should avoid interaction with pets or other animals, to the greatest extent possible.
3.A.1.C.2.G. Medical evaluation and care will be immediately arranged if the Marine displays fever and symptoms consistent with the 2019-nCoV, as per CDC guidance.
3.A.1.C.2.G.1. The Marine will call ahead before going to a medical treatment facility (MTF), informing the MTF of his/her symptoms and travel history.
3.A.1.C.2.G.2. MTF staff should follow CDC guidance when assessing Marines who display fever and symptoms consistent with 2019-nCoV.
3.A.1.C.2.G.3. If a Marine or Sailor is identified as a patient, per previously published guidance, appropriate reporting will be initiated.
3.A.1.C.3. Until further notice, it is recommended that civilian employees and contractor personnel, and family members returning from China follow existing CDC guidance. Key aspects include voluntarily: remaining at home, avoiding congregate settings, limiting close contact with people and pets/other animals to the greatest extent possible, avoiding travel, self-monitoring, and seeking immediate medical care if symptoms develop.
3.A.1.C.4. Potentially affected personnel will be identified in coordination with Federal, State, and local medical planners, healthcare providers, and Public Health Emergency Officers (PHEOs). Actions will mitigate the spread of 2019-nCoV to unaffected personnel.
3.B. End State. The U.S. Marine Corps is postured to mitigate, contain, respond to, and recover from the effects of a public health crisis, and is capable of conducting assigned missions in a pandemic environment.
3.C. Concept of Operations. The concept of operations in response to a viral disease crisis retains the phased approach structure outlined in NORTHCOM CONPLAN 3551, IAW reference I.
3.D. Tasks.
3.D.1. Commanders will:
3.D.1.A. Review, update, and validate existing disease containment plans and policies in order to implement procedures for response, isolation, quarantine, restriction of movement, and community-based intervention.
3.D.1.B. Restrict travel and movement of personnel to areas experiencing 2019-nCoV outbreaks. Provide appropriate medical and non-medical screening of, and protection for, personnel returning from affected areas. Monitoring and screening of individuals potentially exposed to 2019-nCoV should be based on the guidance set forth in reference E.
3.D.1.C. Develop measures to contain and treat U.S. service members DOD employees, contract employees, and family members exposed to, or possibly exposed to 2019-nCoV.
3.D.1.D. Interim guidance and recommendations for reporting, testing and specimen collection can be found at the CDC website: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-criteria.html.
3.D.1.E. IAW reference K, report suspected cases of Marines and Sailors meeting the CDCís definition of a patient or confirmed cases of 2019-nCoV through service and combatant command reporting channels, and to COMMARFORNORTH for tracking and reporting to CDRUSNORTHCOM. OPREP-3 and/or SIR formatting guidance is contained in reference L.
3.D.1.F. Ensure DCP is incorporated into COOP plans, including continuity of essential services.
3.D.1.G. Coordinate with MTFs in development and execution of DCP responses.
3.D.1.H. Commanders will protect personally identifiable information and protected health information, as applicable, in accordance with U.S Law and DoD regulations and policies.
3.D.1.I. Coordinate with Navy Regional Medical Command to request PHEO support.
3.D.1.J. Become familiar with authority to declare a public health emergency, restrict movement, quarantine and isolate. Coordinate with Federal, State, local, and military treatment facilities and public health emergency officials outlined in Section 3 of reference B.
3.D.1.K. Validate Public Health Emergency Preparedness and Disease Containment Response Plans for 2019-nCoV that incorporate the requirements of this MARADMIN.
3.D.2. Coordinating Instructions.
3.D.2.A. The U.S. Marine Corps will follow CDC guidance for healthcare providers at: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-criteria.html. Additional reference material for protective equipment that may go beyond current CDC guidelines are available at: https://health.mil/Reference-Center/...olicy-Guidance. Due to the dynamic nature of this outbreak, individuals should frequently check the CDC 2019-nCoV website for additional updates at: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html.
4. Administration and Logistics. This MARADMIN has been coordinated with HQMC Operations Division, HQMC, Health Services Ė Preventive Medicine, and HQMC Judge Advocate.
5. Command and Signal. A. Command. This MARADMIN applies to the Total Force. B. Signal. This MARADMIN is effective immediately.
6. Release authorized by SES Randy R. Smith, Assistant Deputy Commandant, Plans, Policies and Operations (Security).//
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadwing View Post
You were talking about filter/mask cleaning! Iím inquiring about why perfectly suited up health care professionals are getting infected while using standard disciplined disease protection protocols! BTW, these infection control protocols are recommended by WHO and the US CDC! If you have an answer for that beside washing your mask and changing filters that might help. Sorry if you were offended by my pervious comment but I was a Nuclear Biological Chemical NCO trainer for my unit and I attended the US Army NBC Basic and Advanced Course.....I doubt youíve had the dubious pleasure of living in a chemical protection suit at MOPP 4 level for 72 hours strait while performing under simulated chemical attack.
Look at hospital care photos starting Mid Jan. Anything BUT "perfectly suited up". Wearing near useless N95 paper masks and no closed eye pro.

ANYONE in the Army in the 80s had the pleasure of MOPP4 for extended FTX. The young'uns today haven't even SEEN a MOPP suit or even a hood for their promask.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ForumSurvivalist View Post
US MARINE CORPS


02/12/2020


R 112111Z FEB 20
MARADMIN 082/20
MSGID/GENADMIN/CMC WASHINGTON DC PPO PS
SUBJ/U.S. MARINE CORPS DISEASE CONTAINMENT PREPAREDNESS PLANNING GUIDANCE FOR 2019 NOVEL CORONAVIRUS (2019 nCoV)//
Reads like it was written by an IRS lawyer. . .
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
I linked a 3M paper which is now one of the stickies. They studied long term use of the filters for pathogens. 1 week of use did not present any problems. No sterilization of the filter was done.. They simply left the cooties on the cootie side of the filter, where they stayed without issue.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...biohazards.pdf
OK how does the wearer prevent contamination of themselves when they put the mask back on?
How do you decontaminate the outside of the 1/2 mask without affecting the filters?
I wonder if for short term storage a baggie could be put over ea. filter?

Or just clean with your dirty gloves and spray, use a cloth etc soaked in bleach/alcohol?
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bcvojak View Post
Reads like it was written by an IRS lawyer. . .
I think I need an interpreter.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Exarmyguy View Post
They sell pre filters and holders for some brands of masks. You can put disposable filters over the mask filters with elastic bands.
I have tried to find pre-filters for the rectangular filters on modern masks but have not had much luck, got any links?
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bcvojak View Post
Reads like it was written by an IRS lawyer. . .
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Originally Posted by willow View Post
I think I need an interpreter.
You need to eat a whole box of crayons - then you will be able to read it.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:47 AM
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If Singapore is experiencing what we can expect in the USA, recession is incoming.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapo...s-pm-lee-hsien
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:54 AM
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coronavirus-is-probably-with-us-beyond-this-season-beyond-this-year-cdc-director-says

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/hea...cid=spartandhp
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bunkerbuster View Post
coronavirus-is-probably-with-us-beyond-this-season-beyond-this-year-cdc-director-says

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/hea...cid=spartandhp
Well then. Its official. The CDC has already thrown in the towel and welcomed this disease as an ever present part of our lives from here on. We'll just have to accept 10% or so of the population dying or spending time in an ICU each year during Wuhan Virus season.
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:51 AM
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Does anyone know? I noticed the R0 is lower than SARS, so is it spreading faster solely because of asymptomatic carriers? I couldn't find what I was looking for with Google.
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:10 AM
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Just heard a snippet on CBS news that WHO is meeting with tech giants like Facebook and Google to make sure "correct " information is shared. I can't find an article on it though.
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:14 AM
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Well then. Its official. The CDC has already thrown in the towel and welcomed this disease as an ever present part of our lives from here on. We'll just have to accept 10% or so of the population dying or spending time in an ICU each year during Wuhan Virus season.
Thatís been my impression for the past few days. Unfortunately, I havenít figured out what to do with that thought process.

Still topping off prep stuff because it feels better to do something. I kind of figure my spouse and adult/near-adult kids will likely wind up going about 80% of their normal business eventually, but Iím likely to keep the younger kids on practical lock down for quite some time.

I just watched someone elseís youngish kid openly sneeze in a big line of kids the other day. I adore children (I made quite a bunch), but they are disgusting. I havenít been able to look at any but my own without just seeing a giant ball of potential infection.
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