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Old 01-01-2020, 11:02 PM
j_aubrey j_aubrey is offline
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Hello,

So I came across an abandoned, extremely remote airstrip in the middle of the NV desert which provides some fantastic long-range shooting for my iron-sight-bound Springfield M1A.

I attempted to shoot targets at the 600+ yard range, but could barely make out the target in the iron sights!

So I said 'Well, how about we add a scope to this bad boy!' and decided to solicit opinions from this forum, you all being the experts on all-things firearm related.

Id like to keep it under $600 (to keep the wife from complaing more than usual), not including mount/rings, and wish to shoot at ranges about 600+ yards (for the fun of it). I also demand any scope/hardware I buy be made in AMERICA!! (suck it libs!)

Edit: yes I feel kinda guilty adding a scope to what was intended on an iron-sight rifle, but oh well.

Ideas? Thanks for your input!
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Old 01-01-2020, 11:50 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is online now
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Based on my experience once one goes over 300 yards quality of lens become very important. They are not cheap but $400 should get you what your want. I would not spend more until you are sure you know what you want.

Other that that there are several that post here who can give you good advise. The replies will come. Take your time and read them all.
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Old 01-02-2020, 12:03 AM
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Oh yes, to be young again at Lejeune on the Charlie range and shooting 600+. Sounds like you got a good setup out there. Since I'm not young any longer my sons and I shoot at about 200-400. Me at 200 and them at 400. And at 200 its hard for me to see. But its fun for open sites. As to your question, I have an old Redfield 3x9 and a vortex 3x9. Both are just fine, but I still like open sites the best . The Redfield cost about $30 and the Vortex is about $275. Have fun in your range.
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Old 01-02-2020, 12:26 AM
rustednail rustednail is offline
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I will keep my M1a stock with iron sights....use it for what it was intended to do...so...for those really long shots....I have a heavy barrel Winchester M70 in 308......with the scope that will do the job at those extended ranges...
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Old 01-02-2020, 12:40 AM
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fragout fragout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_aubrey View Post
Hello,

So I came across an abandoned, extremely remote airstrip in the middle of the NV desert which provides some fantastic long-range shooting for my iron-sight-bound Springfield M1A.

I attempted to shoot targets at the 600+ yard range, but could barely make out the target in the iron sights!

So I said 'Well, how about we add a scope to this bad boy!' and decided to solicit opinions from this forum, you all being the experts on all-things firearm related.

Id like to keep it under $400, and wish to shoot at ranges about 600 yards (for the fun of it).

Ideas? Thanks for your input!
Start with a good quality optics mount before you buy anything else. ( A 2k plus optic won't do you any good if it sits on a junk M14 mount. )

SADLAK
SMITH ENTETPRISE INC
ARMS 18

A few other suggestions........

1. Watch out for the arms 18 lookalikes.
2. SAI gen 1 2 and 3 mounts are junk.
3. If you decide on an ARMS 18, the stable screw can be replaced with the M14 front sight set screw if you desire a flush fit, which allows you to remove the handguard without the need to remove the screw first.
4. There are 2 types of ARMS 18 mounts as well as a few different Sadlak mounts. The pics below show the gen1 split rail ARMS 18. The current version = gen2 full rail.
5. 600 yard stationary targets with those iron sights is very capable, provided the shooter is also capable.
6. 400 bucks is enough to cover cost of scope mount, rings , and optic.
11B
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Old 01-02-2020, 12:49 AM
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I would shop used in that price range for that distance. In order to hit the target one needs to be able to see the target. The clearer the better. Finer adjustments help, a .25' click is about 1.5" at 600 yards. Having an adjustable base to zero out windage can help too, for longer range a base made for that type of work can be handy too.
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:01 AM
j_aubrey j_aubrey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustednail View Post
I will keep my M1a stock with iron sights....use it for what it was intended to do...so...for those really long shots....I have a heavy barrel Winchester M70 in 308......with the scope that will do the job at those extended ranges...

Way to make me feel guilty!
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:04 AM
j_aubrey j_aubrey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surveyor View Post
Oh yes, to be young again at Lejeune on the Charlie range and shooting 600+
Sounds like you've got some good stories, please share with us!!
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:23 AM
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ONE OF the greatest things a person can do to hurt their ability to get the most out of a good rifle is to go CHEAP on the glass.. not that $400 really fits into that category but still you want to really get the most out of the gun.

you can do it once, right the first time and be done with it without kicking yourself later about "I wish I had..."

The better the glass and mounts the better you will shoot, especially when it comes to putting long legs on a rifle.

THe M1A is a little more finicky than most when it comes to mounting glass in my experience so DO NOT cheap out on the mount.

I have done all the named scopes of quality and they are all worthy of praise for what they are, but what most of them are not is flexible.

FOR long range easy shooting nothing beats a Shepherd scope. IT does all the elevation figuring right inside the glass in front of you. YOu just fit the target in the appropriate circle and pull the trigger.
now
it is not a scope if you want to shoot an egg at 1000, but if you foresee a need to shoot at something approximately 18" deep or wide... the average chest depth of the standard white tail or the average width of a person at the shoulders, it will get you on target faster with the correct elevation than anything other scope out there not running a computer.

But whatever you choose... save up , spend more and just do it once and be done.

and welcome to the legs club.
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Old 01-02-2020, 03:42 PM
j_aubrey j_aubrey is offline
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Thanks for the input. I think Ill bump my budget up to $600 based on your advice!
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Old 01-03-2020, 03:04 AM
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I'd read fragout's suggestions, and others he has posted. He is our resident M1A/M14 guru. His advice is rock solid.
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Old 01-03-2020, 08:32 AM
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SWFA SS 10x, a Bassett Machine mount, and your cheek pad of choice.

Simple, cheap-er, and gets the job done.
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Old 01-03-2020, 09:30 AM
wldwsel wldwsel is offline
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look at the Nikon M762. It's designed for the round and is around your price range. Shot one with Mildots and like it a lot. They have several versions, so check them all out.

On thing to look for is, will it stand up to the recoil of an M1A? Nikon does.

WW

shoot straight - stay safe
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Old 01-04-2020, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wldwsel View Post
look at the Nikon M762. It's designed for the round and is around your price range. Shot one with Mildots and like it a lot. They have several versions, so check them all out.

On thing to look for is, will it stand up to the recoil of an M1A? Nikon does.

WW

shoot straight - stay safe
Dunno if you know or not, but Nikon is getting out of the scope game. Warranty support might not be there in the future should it take a poop on you.
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Old 01-05-2020, 09:15 AM
wldwsel wldwsel is offline
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^^^^^^^

In a full blown SHTF, EVERYBODY, including Weaver and Leopold will be out of the scope game. That's why some have extra scopes, red dots, etc. Not me, of course, all my stuff went down in the middle of the river.

WW

shoot straight - stay safe
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Old 01-05-2020, 12:35 PM
Doc_Jon Doc_Jon is offline
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Fragout gives great info about the M14 series. I have sought his advice when I was rebuilding a few rifles.

My own experience on scoping an M14 type is using SEI, Springfield, Armscorp and ARMS mounts.
-I prefer the ARMS 18 split rail types because it offers the lowest profile mount I have found...you will have to buy on the used market and I have seen as cheap as 125 and as high as 399. Most (if not all) of the older split rails have weaver spaced rails that will not work with picatinny rings unless you open the space up some. I careful did this and used ARMS 20 medium height steal rings with Leupold MK4 4.5-14, 40mm obj, scopes and it's a great fit and function.
-Newer ARMS 18 have a continuous rail and are picatinny spaced.
-The steal Armscorp mounts are weaver type rails on some, picatinny on others (I think). They are very similar dimensions wise to SEI, which are great mounts.
-Springfield aluminum mounts are basically junk. I have used one of their newer steal mounts and liked it and it mounted up fine but reports are all over the place on how others like them.

ARMS products get alot of hate online. I have only used their older 18 model scope mounts and the newer model 22 rings. Both have worked well for me personally.


-I don't think it is essential but my person rule for rings is to use steal rings on steal mounts, aluminum/alloy on Aluminum/alloy mounts.
My favorite rings are Leupold, SEI or ARMS. La Rue and American defense are good too.

For scopes I personally like a 4.5-14 with a 40mm objective Leupold V3 or MK4. My V3s have had 1 inch tubes and Mk4s have had 30mm tubes.

I have bought all my scopes used and sent some off to Leupold to be cleaned/serviced. They will change a duplex reticle out for a mil-dot, I think the price was $200 ballpark, but email their customer service to be sure.

Vortex makes good scopes too.

The general rule for a scope is it should be at least half the value of the rifle.
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Old 01-25-2020, 02:57 PM
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1 thing I forgot to mention.

SAI receivers as well as a few chicom M14S receivers may not allow you to properly install an optics mount.

Too be honest, I have not seen one out of spec enough to stop one from proper installation Btw.

One can still get a measuring kit from Sadlak to find out for certain, and they can build you a mount based on the measurements you send them if you require a custom mount for an out of spec reciever.

If you decide on an ARMS 18, the same can be accomplished by several gunsmiths who specialize in the M14.

If you already bought an ARMS mount, look closely at the pic below.

The mount should line up with receiver as shown.

Note: This is a Norinco M14S receiver Btw.


There should not be any gaps exceeding 1 32nd of an inch along the side of receiver, and receiver slot mount raceway. In short, the tighter it fits, the better the mount will serve.

On a side note, iron sights have full use with ARMS18 mount installed/ optic removed.

Note: DO NOT use any permanent " Locktite", JB weld, etc to hold the mount in place. If it is fit correctly, it went shoot loose over time, and with proper PMCS applied. ( In short, inspect mount just as you should inspect rings/ optic.)

Do not over tork the primary bolt that runs into the reciever s optics mount point either. Especially a cast reciever. ( Don't ask how I know this.) Torque specs should be inside box if you buy. New mount.

Note: You will end up loosing your rifle's cartridge clip guide, as the cartridge clip guide slot is another mounting point for the arms18 and must be removed first.

I use fingernail polish on all pertaining screws as quick reference if anything is trying to loosen. IF you notice that the polish is cracking any time your half yay thru a 20rd mag, then it is possible that your receiver is out of spec. ( The ARMS mount will not be 99.9% of the time.)

Note: While there is little reason to remove the mount, the few reasons why you might remove it are important.

1. Proper maint, especially if you do alot of shooting in cold, damp places.....rain, snow, etc.....

2. Full rail gen2 ARMS mounts are a PITA when you want to remove the bolt.

Fwiw. ......I use a Leupold VX1 Hog scope on mine most of the time, unless hunting them at night.

8.1 ounces.
Once zeroed properly, hold oversaw correspond well with 168gr OTM, and 168gr TTSX via the rifle's 18.5in Criterion chrome lined tube.

In short.....the lowest holdover = 613 yards exact.
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Old 01-26-2020, 05:55 PM
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Here is the best deal going on these Nikon’s. They are getting out of the scope business. These are a steal at this price point.

https://www.eurooptic.com/Nikon-BLAC...FFP-16511.aspx

Don’t scrimp on the mount.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:21 AM
augoldminer augoldminer is offline
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Get a mil-dot type scope and work up a range card for it.

Get a scope with at least 2-16x**

That should allow you to sight in at 300 yards and hold over or under using the mil-dots for other ranges from 50 yards to 800 yards without adjusting the scope for range.

And use the mil-dots for wind deflection or lead on a moving target.

this is better then what the military used on the M21 sniper rifle.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:48 AM
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How's your eye sight at distance?

You ought to be able to walk your rounds into a 600yd gong using impacts in the dirt.

I found my 100yd zero with my M1A would get me to 400yds without adjusting the rear sight elevation or using hold over, shooting from a sandbagged bench.

At 500 to 700yds I need to adjust elevation up on my rear iron sight.

Using your 100yd zero, count the clicks it takes to turn the elevation knob down to flush with the base of your rear sight. Write that number on a piece of paper that will go into your buttstock cleaning kit compartment.

Turn the elevation knob back up to your 100yd zero by counting the clicks back up.

From there shoot at the 600 target, you might start cranking that elevation wheel in 1/4 to 1/2 turns. Use the dirt hits (puffs) to give you an idea of where you are at.

Once you're on at 600, count your clicks back down to where the rear sight is flush with the base. Write that number on your piece of paper.

Do some math to figure out how many clicks you need to get from your 100yd zero to your 600yd target.

Now you have the ability to repeatedly hit out to 600 with iron sights.
Keep that piece of paper in your stock cleaning compartment.
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