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Old 02-05-2020, 10:24 PM
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Leadcounsel has a valid take from his position and job in the military, but for the average enlisted guy like myself, people like that CSM were the most inspiring to us, they were badasses who had been there and done that and have everyone's respect in the unit.

I think he nailed the role personally.

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Old 02-06-2020, 02:00 AM
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"We were soldiers" Just watched it again tonight for about the third time. Very accurate attention to detail. I hate movies that are full of baloney. Even the M16s in the movie were period with the open rather than closed flash hiders. By the time I was in 1st Cav we had got rid of colored insignea and white name tags.
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Old 02-06-2020, 03:19 AM
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So here is what I could find. Based on others accounts and an article from Brietbart.

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/vie...a-vietnam.html

Quote:
We Were Soldiers’ where Sam Elliott played Plumley. Plumley’s soldiers affectionately called him ‘Old Iron Jaw’.
In the movie adaption (2002) Sam Elliot played Plumley and Mel Gibson played Hal Moore. Galloway, a reporter from the War, said of the film that one-liners made by Elliott were things that Plumley actually said in real-life; for example, the scene where a soldier greets him with a ‘good morning’ and his retort is ‘who made you the (expletive) weather man.’

Galloway states ‘Sam Elliott underplayed him. He was actually tougher than that. He was gruff, monosyllabic, an absolute terror when it came to enforcing standards of training.’

https://www.breitbart.com/entertainm...cts-war-hero/#
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Like the top enlisted man he was, Sgt. Major Plumley was always in the thickest of the fighting.
Correspondent Galloway, <snip> said of Plumley, “He was the very essence of a command sergeant major. They stand at the right hand of God and sometimes they speak with more authority than God.”
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Old 02-06-2020, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by zumhug View Post
So here is what I could find. Based on others accounts and an article from Brietbart.

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/vie...a-vietnam.html




https://www.breitbart.com/entertainm...cts-war-hero/#


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Old 02-07-2020, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by One&Done View Post
I'll buy "We Were Soldiers." Can't figure why no "Zulu." Folks just plum bumfuzzle me...

One&Done
I never say that one.

It wasn't so much about war as it was a cute comedy movie but I forgot to mention "Operation Petticoat"
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Old 02-08-2020, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFlame View Post
Leadcounsel has a valid take from his position and job in the military, but for the average enlisted guy like myself, people like that CSM were the most inspiring to us, they were badasses who had been there and done that and have everyone's respect in the unit.

I think he nailed the role personally.

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I've seen good and bad CSMs.

Among the worst was a fake tough guy that acted like the CSM in that film, "We were Soldiers." We were actually cursed with both a 1SG and a CSM who behaved the same way; they were both overweight, and very opinionated. And their opinions were stupid. For example, the CSM actually defended to me the widely known universal camouflage uniform pattern (aka digital gray). I debated it with him briefly until realized just how stupid he was.

His position was, astonishingly, that camouflage isn't important. Yes, that's just shake-your-head stupid. I disengaged before ridiculing him.

That CSM and 1SG were just gruff, opinionated know it alls and I had no confidence in their abilities.
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:08 PM
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His position was, astonishingly, that camouflage isn't important.
Dammit man! How can you not instantly realize that (from the perspective of the average E-9) personal camouflage is inherently detrimental to critical day-to-day operations?

That the typical CSM requires the ability to visually acquire work details from a distance... as they dutifully rake Sergeants Major Lines into the sand. Or pick up pine cones? Why... functional camouflage uniforms would put paid to that superpower and allow everyone to hide out and ghost. That's crazy talk. Next thing you know, we'd have cats living with dogs, troops with their hands in their pockets, and a force comprised of undisciplined sham artists wearing unshined boots.

Sometime I just don't understand the Officer Corps. Can't see the forest for the trees.

Speaking of brilliant marketing efforts, the idiots who foisted the UCP grey (ACU) uniform on the Army did it by means of an ingenious ploy. They near simultaneously issued the prototypes to most General Officers and their SEAs. This about a year in advance of the adoption decision. Those cats got to strut around like catwalk models in their Gucci Grey Pajamas (complete with cutting edge pen pockets & yards of Velcro). When the time came to deliver feedback and approve the procurement budget... the only votes that counted were those of the very command elements who'd gotten quite enamored of their private fashion statement.

You just know somebody got an Impact Legion of Merit for coming up with that brilliant buy-in ploy.

Pro Tip: If you ever want procurement approvals and budget for some widget not really needed... make sure that all top organizational bosses get their very own personal use versions... well in advance. After playing willful Staff Show & Tell with an item across many months, they'll be too embarrassed to admit that the product actually sucks for organizational issue.

(Full disclosure: I occasionally wore blue jeans, M4A1, and a very garish blue/green Hawaiian shirt out in the middle of nowhere Afghanistan. Sometimes camo really wasn't important.)
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Astronomy View Post
Dammit man! How can you not instantly realize that (from the perspective of the average E-9) personal camouflage is inherently detrimental to critical day-to-day operations?

That the typical CSM requires the ability to visually acquire work details from a distance... as they dutifully rake Sergeants Major Lines into the sand. Or pick up pine cones? Why... functional camouflage uniforms would put paid to that superpower and allow everyone to hide out and ghost. That's crazy talk. Next thing you know, we'd have cats living with dogs, troops with their hands in their pockets, and a force comprised of undisciplined sham artists wearing unshined boots.

Sometime I just don't understand the Officer Corps. Can't see the forest for the trees.

Speaking of brilliant marketing efforts, the idiots who foisted the UCP grey (ACU) uniform on the Army did it by means of an ingenious ploy. They near simultaneously issued the prototypes to most General Officers and their SEAs. This about a year in advance of the adoption decision. Those cats got to strut around like catwalk models in their Gucci Grey Pajamas (complete with cutting edge pen pockets & yards of Velcro). When the time came to deliver feedback and approve the procurement budget... the only votes that counted were those of the very command elements who'd gotten quite enamored of their private fashion statement.

You just know somebody got an Impact Legion of Merit for coming up with that brilliant buy-in ploy.

Pro Tip: If you ever want procurement approvals and budget for some widget not really needed... make sure that all top organizational bosses get their very own personal use versions... well in advance. After playing willful Staff Show & Tell with an item across many months, they'll be too embarrassed to admit that the product actually sucks for organizational issue.

(Full disclosure: I occasionally wore blue jeans, M4A1, and a very garish blue/green Hawaiian shirt out in the middle of nowhere Afghanistan. Sometimes camo really wasn't important.)
I was around for the switch. Hated ACUs. Cheaply made, terrible for the field.

Still have a few original BDU and DCU pieces and prefer them. Multi cam was great but couldn't walk away with a pair, they were still new and supply had their eye on my inventory.

There are times when it doesn't matter but concealment, like cover, are fundamental components of military doctrine, and will always have relevancy in war.

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Last edited by ForgedInTheFlame; 02-08-2020 at 08:22 PM..
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Old 02-08-2020, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronomy View Post
Dammit man! How can you not instantly realize that (from the perspective of the average E-9) personal camouflage is inherently detrimental to critical day-to-day operations?

That the typical CSM requires the ability to visually acquire work details from a distance... as they dutifully rake Sergeants Major Lines into the sand. Or pick up pine cones? Why... functional camouflage uniforms would put paid to that superpower and allow everyone to hide out and ghost. That's crazy talk. Next thing you know, we'd have cats living with dogs, troops with their hands in their pockets, and a force comprised of undisciplined sham artists wearing unshined boots.

Sometime I just don't understand the Officer Corps. Can't see the forest for the trees.

Speaking of brilliant marketing efforts, the idiots who foisted the UCP grey (ACU) uniform on the Army did it by means of an ingenious ploy. They near simultaneously issued the prototypes to most General Officers and their SEAs. This about a year in advance of the adoption decision. Those cats got to strut around like catwalk models in their Gucci Grey Pajamas (complete with cutting edge pen pockets & yards of Velcro). When the time came to deliver feedback and approve the procurement budget... the only votes that counted were those of the very command elements who'd gotten quite enamored of their private fashion statement.

You just know somebody got an Impact Legion of Merit for coming up with that brilliant buy-in ploy.

Pro Tip: If you ever want procurement approvals and budget for some widget not really needed... make sure that all top organizational bosses get their very own personal use versions... well in advance. After playing willful Staff Show & Tell with an item across many months, they'll be too embarrassed to admit that the product actually sucks for organizational issue.

(Full disclosure: I occasionally wore blue jeans, M4A1, and a very garish blue/green Hawaiian shirt out in the middle of nowhere Afghanistan. Sometimes camo really wasn't important.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFlame View Post
I was around for the switch. Hated ACUs. Cheaply made, terrible for the field.

Still have a few original BDU and ACU pieces and prefer them. Multi cam was great but couldn't walk away with a pair, they were still new and supply had their eye on my inventory.

There are times when it doesn't matter but concealment, like cover, are fundamental components of military doctrine, and will always have relevancy in war.

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Yup, spend any time in the military and it just seems like too often really dumb people and ideas float to the top. I'll never understand it.

The ACU digital UPC is just a simple easily understood example.

We were going to fight in a mostly desert terrain with small areas of vegetation in Iraq, or a desert mountainous vegetation regions in Afghanistan.

A classroom of 10 year-olds would tell you the UPC doesn't blend with any of those environments. Worse, it is so light is nearly glows in the dark.

That pattern probably cost billions of dollars to adopt and produce, and the waste of warehouses full of otherwise serviceable BDUs and DCU and Chocolate Chip camouflage which was superior in most respects. And how many lives were lost because they weren't camo'd, we'll never know.

We'd have been far better off to simply adopt two uniforms (like the Marine Corps did), one desert and one forest. Use the already excellent BDU and DCUs on hand, making minor improvements such as making them non wrinkle material, as needed. And adopt the low maintenance brown boots. Excellent uniform. Low cost.

Instead we got a poorly made and poorly designed uniform using the most non-tactical velco that was noisy and always seemed to fail.

I digress.
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Old 02-08-2020, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by One&Done View Post
I'll buy "We Were Soldiers." Can't figure why no "Zulu." Folks just plum bumfuzzle me...



One&Done


I think a couple people did list Zulu, I pointed out that it might put you off cookouts for awhile though.

Unless Iím mistaken isnít that the one where they completely coated a couple guys in clay with breathing holes then roasted them over a fire?
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Old 02-08-2020, 09:06 PM
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I think a couple people did list Zulu, I pointed out that it might put you off cookouts for awhile though.

Unless Iím mistaken isnít that the one where they completely coated a couple guys in clay with breathing holes then roasted them over a fire?
Nope, not even close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_(1964_film)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058777/

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Old 02-08-2020, 11:32 PM
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For the war in the air try "Twelve O'clock High" the movie not the series. They were crashing real live B-17s while making the movie. I've always been fascinated by that part of WWII, back when aircrews believed that they'd never survive twenty five missions. We watched it in leadership school.
For the Napoleonic Wars, "Master and Commander" lined up with the history books from that period better than anything I've seen. Capt. Sir Edward Pellew and Nelson at Trafalgar, some of the greatest leaders in history.
"The Gathering Storm" The best movie about the greatest leader in history.
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:17 AM
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Default Best military movie/show (top 3)

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My mistake then, the one Iím thinking of was set in Africa about fighting between the British and (I thought) Zulu warriors. That particular scene where they roast a couple people alive while encased in clay always stuck with me but apparently the name of the movie didnít.

I think I just found it. The one Iím thinking of is ďThe naked preyĒ.
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Old 02-09-2020, 03:23 PM
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`

This is a pretty good summation of the battle depicted in "Zulu". Only thing that stood out as being different from other sources I've read is that the Zulu didn't only have flintlock muskets but also several Henry-Martini rifles taken off of dead British soldiers, but they didn't have a large supply of ammo for them.


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Old 02-10-2020, 12:39 AM
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Back before A&E started making garbage, they made the "Horatio Hornblower" series that was based on C.S. Forester's novels, that were also based largely on the life of Capt. Sir Edward Pellew,
I don't know of any good movies about Pellew, since simulating a Ship of the Line would be difficult even today.
When we studied WWI, we watched "Paths of Glory," and "All Quiet on the Western Front".
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
That pattern probably cost billions of dollars to adopt and produce, and the waste of warehouses full of otherwise serviceable BDUs and DCU and Chocolate Chip camouflage which was superior in most respects. And how many lives were lost because they weren't camo'd, we'll never know.
Last I heard and there are "reports" so we don't know if it's true but the ACU debacle cost $5B in taxpayer dollars.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-Marines.html

TBH in some spots I liked the velcro, in others...not so much.

The USMC did a great job with thier "despat/marpat" systems.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:58 PM
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The Lord of the Rings movies are great. They give you a great feel for the huge story in the books. They also do a great job of showing the clash of huge armies of medieval and monster fighters. You can’t miss these movies.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corpus View Post
I think a couple people did list Zulu, I pointed out that it might put you off cookouts for awhile though.

Unless Iím mistaken isnít that the one where they completely coated a couple guys in clay with breathing holes then roasted them over a fire?
Thats from the movie,The Naked Prey. Africans kill a whole hunting safari except one white hunter ,with the heart of a lion. They give him a 200 yard head start then the tribe hunters go after him. He kills a bunch of them throughout the movie and escapes in the end. Good movie.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:18 AM
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I have too many to choose from on my PC....


12 O'Clock High (1949)
12 O'Clock High Season 1
12 O'Clock High Season 2
12 O'Clock High Season 3
633 Squadron
Air Force
Anthropoid (2016)
Appointment in London
Band of Brothers (2001 HBO)
Battle Of Britain (1969)
Command.Decision (1948)
Conspiracy (2001)
D-Day The Sixth Of June.avi
Destination Tokyo.avi
Dr. Strangelove Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb (1964)
Enigma
Fat Man And Little Boy (1989)
Fighter Squadron
Flying Leathernecks
FORTRESS - True Story
Guns of Navarone
Hitler - The Rise Of Evil
Hurricane (2018)
Ike Countdown To D-Day (2004)
Inglourious Basterds
Into the Storm.avi
Lancaster Skies (2019)
Memphis Belle (1990) WW2 bomber
Midway (1976)
Midway (2019)
Montezuma
Mosquito Squadron (1969)
Operation Pacific
Pearl Harbor (2001)
Red Tails
Sink The Bismarck! (1960)
The Dam Busters (1955)
The Desert Fox The Story Of Rommel (1951)
The First Of The Few (1942)
The Glenn Miller Story
The Heroes Of Telemark (1965)
The Longest Day (1962)
The Monuments Men (2014)
The Thousand Plane Raid.webm
The Wings of Eagles
The Bunker (2001)
They Shall Not Grow Old (2018)
They Were Expendable (1945)
Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo (1945)
Tora! Tora! Tora! (1970)
Torpedo Run
Yamato
Churchill (2017)
Darkest Hour (2017)
The Gathering Storm 2002
Winston Churchill Biography
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:39 AM
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Good lists.

Did no one mention Patton??
I liked
Patton
Master and Commander
Das Boot
Kelly's Heroes
The Imitation Game (Breaking Enigma)
Full Metal Jacket
Hunt for Red October
Eye in the Sky (a window into Drone warfare and micro air vehicles)
Blackhawk Down
Heartbreak Ridge
Dirty Dozen
The Last Samurai
The Sand Pebbles
African Queen.
Midway
The Battle of the Bulge
Bat21
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