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Old 03-25-2020, 02:58 PM
IC_Rafe IC_Rafe is offline
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Originally Posted by soocom1 View Post
For those overseas from the US or north of our border, please understand something that Americans understand far differently than you folks do.
We have Constitutional rights that say we have the right to assemble and freedom of speech. We have a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to own firearms, that is being stripped from us constantly.
I understand, but also consider that maybe those in Italy and Spain understand some things very differently than Americans or even many places in the EU understand (myself included). The effects of an overwhelmed healthcare, shipping out bodies to cremate because local can't handle it. Spain converted an ice rink to store bodies. Till 2 weeks ago they were reacting the same as many over there: it's just a flu, it's no big problem, there's just a few sick. Now they are trying to spread this message to the world, and the world is basically replying: "you say that, but it's different here, you'll see, there's just a few cases, will be over in a week or two".
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:08 PM
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"Free speech is fine, but what if "bad advice"gets people killed?"


How about if your speech kills this country?? We have democrap dictators all over this country deciding how to harm us.
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
I understand, but also consider that maybe those in Italy and Spain understand some things very differently than Americans or even many places in the EU understand (myself included). The effects of an overwhelmed healthcare, shipping out bodies to cremate because local can't handle it. Spain converted an ice rink to store bodies. Till 2 weeks ago they were reacting the same as many over there: it's just a flu, it's no big problem, there's just a few sick. Now they are trying to spread this message to the world, and the world is basically replying: "you say that, but it's different here, you'll see, there's just a few cases, will be over in a week or two".
That almost sounds like the democrats here that are calling for socialism, hasn't worked anywhere else but it will be different this time.
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
I understand, but also consider that maybe those in Italy and Spain understand some things very differently than Americans or even many places in the EU understand (myself included). The effects of an overwhelmed healthcare, shipping out bodies to cremate because local can't handle it. Spain converted an ice rink to store bodies. Till 2 weeks ago they were reacting the same as many over there: it's just a flu, it's no big problem, there's just a few sick. Now they are trying to spread this message to the world, and the world is basically replying: "you say that, but it's different here, you'll see, there's just a few cases, will be over in a week or two".
Again, you misunderstand my point.

The situation in the EU has many parallels to the US.
Even the "it wont happen here crowd". Or some version of that thinking.

Again, most of the US actually takes this quite seriously. That's why the preppers and survivalists did what they did. In case of THIS VERY ASPECT!

But again, the attitude that we hold is far different from Spain or the EU, not because we dont think its happening or not, but because the information and actions by our governments (plural because we have Fed., state and local) has proven for far too long to be erroneous at best and dictatorial at worst. Their "advice" and "orders" again follow the tried and true list of lies and misdirection they have used for that 100+ years I stated.

We have suspicion of what they say (not the virus itself, but their motives) because of this history.
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:53 PM
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Let me make a different point from someone who is in government myself, works with spatial data and sees patterns in statistics.



Were screwed!



The numbers state as of today that were at over 450,000+ confirmed infections. 20,000+ deaths.

If you put in the aspect of the 2-17 day incubation and out of body survivability of the virus, then the aspects that I stated earlier, that means that exponentially, we will hit 1,000,000 infected by the end of next week plus, and hit 5 million infected by the end of April if were lucky.

It also means that all manner of social distancing doesn't mean squat! The isolation and other aspects are doing nothing to stop the virus, only prolong the eventual mass infection of 40-50% of the world's population, meaning 2-3 BILLION people and over 40,000,000 deaths! Calculate those numbers!

All because China wanted to play their party politics and save face.

That means that I will probably have a 1 in 20 chance of contracting it, (if I haven't already), and a 1 in 200 chance of dying from it. Those are not the best odds at this point.

But I cannot worry and nor do I concern myself with a possible end of my life because of a biological agent either evolving or weaponized in the PRC.

What will happen will happen. I instead need to make the best of the time I DO have (irregardless if I live past this or not) and enjoy what I have. Rather than dealing with power hungry, tin plated dictators with delusions of Godhood.


(Apologeze to Gene Roddenberry.)
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:02 PM
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An old friend just gave notice why he had been 'missing' the past month... was in the hospital.
Now, he's in quarantine.
It's a mild case of COVID 19... but that's only half of it.

He has been diagnosed with a brain tumor, and if he makes it to mid April, has scheduled surgery.
It could be worse - his wife left him.
[snare roll, cymbal crash]
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:08 PM
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This virus is killing .5% of those that get it (that's one in 200 for all those who failed math). Much less than the common flu that goes around each season. There is much hype associated with this particular "pandemic". And some of those who die (many actually) are already suffering and have one foot in the grave already. Putting the nation into a depression will kill far more people than this virus. So, if you follow my drift, you will see that this is a contrived event with much hoopla and bogus figures being splayed for you to consume. Odd how most of the "deaths" are in the liberal hot spots where statistics are easily manipulated by the lib politicians. I don't know, but this thing smells to high heaven.
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:14 PM
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I didn't prep for "this one aspect". I prepped for most every aspects that might happen. Unfortunately no one knows in advance what to expect. I've been monitoring posts on various blogs and haven't found anyone who knows of anyone who is sick with this. Not saying there are none, but it seems odd we don't see the usual Dateline or 20/20 stories about heart-felt stories of those who have had this touch them. Again, not saying it isn't happening...just odd as hell. No one is sick around my area and business' and people are going about day to day life as usual. Maybe we're wrong and maybe we'll all keel over tomorrow...but there has been so many lies and fake news that it's becoming difficult to just accept what we hear.
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:33 PM
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I have been shocked at the number of people, including on these forums, that have been minimizing the situation or saying that quarantine is pointless or we are wrecking the economy for no reason. This blows my mind a little since it should go without saying that china doesn't go ballistic and put an entire region of their country with 60 million people on lockdown for fun, or some kind of pressure from it's disgruntled citizens.

Also it just came out in the news recently that after a closed door briefing, several congress people sold a bunch of stocks while publicly saying everything was fine or trying to somehow reroute their discourse towards Trump. Significantly in advance of the main market panic. I don't think our politicians usually panic sell their stocks unless the news is pretty bad.

I think good information is the best disinfectant for both panic and apathy. In that light I would like to compile as concise an explanation as possible for why this is serious and should be treated as such. I am not encouraging panic, but rather a sober confrontation of reality that hopefully leads to calm and logical decision making for everyone to look out for the best interests of themselves and others around them.

1) Infectiousness and difficulty in containing the spread.

This virus is more infectious than the flu or anything we normally encounter, and those other bugs are already pretty contagious. It is well known at this point that the incubation on the sars-cov-2 virus can be 2 weeks or possibly more. As well the virus is highly infectious before symptoms appear, so you can be spreading it for days before you start to get sick, and quite some time from your initial contact, making it hard to trace back where you got it. https://www.livescience.com/new-coro...-with-flu.html The infection rate is likely around 2x that of the run of the mill seasonal flu viruses. If you understand exponential math, that is a big deal. If you have an R1.3 then the infection rate is slow, one person infects another, who infects another, who infect 1-2 more. This is over the full course of the virus from first contracting it to resolution of the case. If you are going by 1.3 for seasonal flu, over 10 consecutive cases, starting with one infected person, that is like 1-1-1-2-2-3-4-5-6-8. With an R2 that is 1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512.

If you look at how this has progressed compared to the first sars pandemic, they did very little to contain sars and it still didn't spread much.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00758-2 "The SARS outbreak went on for three months before being identified as a distinct disease. Then, for nearly two more months, it was a disease in search of a pathogen: the identification and genomic sequencing of the virus itself largely came from researchers outside China.

By contrast, three weeks after the first known case of the disease now known as COVID-19, China had notified the WHO of a spike in cases of a pneumonia-like disease. Two weeks after that, the coronavirus had been isolated, genetically sequenced, and a diagnostic test developed, giving China the tools it needed to launch one of the greatest infectious-disease containment efforts the world has ever seen."

Despite massive containment efforts in china it got out, and per the article, "It took less than two months from the discovery of the first infection for the number of confirmed cases to pass the total that SARS reached over several months." Even though many people consider world government responses to be slow, in reality they've done far more, far quicker than previous pandemics and yet it has progressed fast anyway. My state had it's first case just a few days ago, after social distancing had already started and detected cases has shot past 100 in that span anyway.

Two important cases to study are south korea and the diamond princess cruise ship. The argument often given is that far more people are probably infected than we realize, so the death rates must be much lower(though i will come back to that later.) Focusing on the infection part for the cruise ship, Out of 4000 crew and passengers, all were tested, and 712 came up positive for the virus. This is 18% infected in a rather short span.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...nfected-2020-3
https://thehill.com/changing-america...-preparing-for

Multiple people and organizations have predicted a large number of infected before this is over with.

Countries that have a better handle on this basically restricted travel way ahead of the curve and have employed draconian methods of tracking and containing the spread. South Korea has employed tracking the cell phone location history of infected people, to see where they have been and test everyone they are likely to have infected. China has everyone tracked anyway and when being admitted to places they are checking people for fevers and checking their tracking to make sure they haven't been to infected areas recently. People were placed in forced quarantine, carted off against their will to mandatory isolation, only one member of the family allowed out out of the home every 2 or 3 days and only to buy supplies. Door to door health checks.


2) The death rate is higher than doubters want to admit, but it isn't just about the death rate, it is about the rate of hospitalization and ICU.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

People have been saying as I mentioned earlier that the death rate must be much lower due to a lot of undetected cases. However the death rate isn't the only story. Current death rates are based on access to healthcare, access we might not have if the infection rate is not flattened out or wound back a bit. Giving industry time to catch up with supply, and researchers to find effective treatments, and develop a vaccine to the point it can be administered. Italy's recent surge in deaths as their healthcare system is overwhelmed is an early indication of this.

Going back to south korea and the diamond princess, by comparison to less controlled situations, there are very reliable numbers in these two countries. South korea has tracked every place it's infected went and tested everyone they reasonably could, about 250k tested for 8800 infected. There are not a lot of undetected individuals in south korea. Out of 8799 infected, 102 have died. That is a 1.15% death rate. The diamond princess cruise ship had 712 infected, 8 dead. That is 1.112% death rate. The average age of passengers on the cruise is higher than pretty much any nation, but also not a lot of 80+ year olds are on cruises. I've seen some analysis of these numbers pushing them down to say half a percent, but that is still 5x higher than the flu, and with a higher infection rate. On the conservative end of numbers that would be 130 million infected and half a percent dead, 650k dead americans. That would make it more than 20x worse than the flu and leapfrog into position #1 for cause of death in 2020.

Now, that's assuming that medical intervention is available, part of the rationale behind social distancing and partial or complete shutdowns is to flatten out the infection rate, bringing the effective infection rate from R2-3 down to somewhere closer to R1 or below. If we treated this like "just the flu" and didn't isolate at all, didn't stop flights, didn't take any actions, and millions were infected, the hospitals would be quickly overfilled, people would be dieing at home, dieing on the curb outside, or on a gurney in an isolated hallway somewhere. The international death rate for closed cases is at 12%. Studies by the CDC indicate from available data that about 6.6x as many people are infected as have been tested at any given time(exempting situations like south korea and diamond princess where it's near 100% testing.) This would again be around a 1 something % death rate.

Meanwhile italy is currently at a 44% death rate on their concluded cases, with 9% of their overall confirmed cases. It's hard to say what what these numbers will settle out to, but italy has claimed they have plenty of testing capacity, though not as aggressive as south korea, it is unlikely that italy has an absurdly high rate of those who have it but weren't tested due to mild symptoms. Italy is a good example of how death rates could go up if the healthcare system is swamped. Overall the global rate of "serious" cases is at 5%. I've seen numerous estimates though that it is closer to 5% icu, 20% hospitalization.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10....7.457910/full/
"If the infection curve is not flattened and the pandemic is concentrated in a 6-month period, that would leave a capacity gap of 1,373,248 inpatient beds (274 percent potentially available capacity) and 295,350 ICU beds (508 percent potentially available capacity)."

With an uncontrolled spread, death rates would likely skyrocket due to inability to provide care to the critical care patients.


3) This is not just an old person's disease, and the consequences are not just death.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...-new-cdc-data/
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm

Initially the numbers that came out of china led people to believe this was a disease that only affected the elderly. So much so that many spring break revelers went despite being encouraged to practice social distancing, famously saying stuff like it was getting in the way of them getting drunk and, "if i get corona i get corona, i'm not going to let this stop me, we've had this stuff planned for like 2 months." Some people have even suggested we only quarantine the elderly and have young people go out and live life as normal, act as if nothing is happening. Is that really sensible though?

"Among hospitalized adults, 1 in 5 were 20 to 44 years old, as were 12 percent of those admitted to the ICU."
"38 percent of those sick enough to be hospitalized were younger than 55."
"Earlier this week, French health ministry official JÚrome Salomon said half of the 300 to 400 coronavirus patients treated in intensive care units in Paris were younger than 65, and, according to numbers presented at a seminar of intensive care specialists, half the ICU patients in the Netherlands were younger than 50."

It seems pretty apparent that there are high rates of hospitalization and ICU use for infections in younger adults, even in the 20-44 age bracket. Even dividing these numbers by 6ish to account for undiagnosed cases is still high.

As with the overall data i was discussing above, what would the death rate be if we run out of hospital beds and equipment? I think we would go from extremely low death rates in young adults to quite high. You are still talking about around 30k needing hospitalization for every 1 million infected if you go by 15%(% of detected vs undetected cases) of 20% hospitalization rate.

Then people assume recovered means back to 100%.

https://www.sciencealert.com/even-th...ath-afterwards
"The Hong Kong Hospital Authority made the findings after studying the first wave of patients who were discharged from the hospital and had fully recovered from COVID-19.

Out of 12 people in the group, two to three saw changes in their lung capacity."

There are tons of articles out there indicating seemingly long term or permanent damage to lungs and other internal organs. Even if the rate was low, like 1/3rd of icu patients age 20-44 have some sort of reduced capacity. That could be a significant long term impact on disability rates and economic output.

On top of all this, there are of course the medical bills. Young adults are not financially fit enough in this country for days in the ICU. A huge wave of icu patients from a high infection rate would cost a ton of money. I'm not sure there is enough data yet to calculate total economic impact, but it's going to be a lot if 10's or 100's of millions in the usa get sick.
I have been following the chinese news and its worst virus that ever been found to date.
1 it can live outside the human host for 17 days human can infect their pets but data is out on the reverse.

2 once you go full bloom (infected to hostpital) you can spread this virus with a cough, a sneeze, infecting a ontact surface up to three days on some 5 days on others and in a cruise ship 17 days.
Once infected 37 days is how long the longest infected person can carry the disease is suggested.
17 days to full bloom + 2 weeks to recover+ 17 days after recovery you can give people this disease is my math thats 45 days. 17 for the environment 2 weeks in you noticed 17 days hidden.

3 the young think they are invencible and are still partying. NY hospitals report the highestnumber of young in the hospitals is 40% under the age of 40.

5 the cdcd gets two things wrong on their ad the age most affected is 50 and over but the ones in the hosptials are under that age too.
it can spread by a cough and a sneeze in the early phases of the disease to late phases of teh disease.

6 this disease is highly contagious because people ran the disinffectants out at supermaerkets and super stores.

Method to make sure your not the source of the disease is the following.

Distance 10 ft Why because a sneeze can send a stream that far so can a cough.

Sun light this disease was bread by bats in the Hubei china area (so china says thats where patient zero is from)
as long as the weather is similar to that of caves bats live it will soread liek wild fire. Sunlight and UV rays have helped kill the virus off as well as fresh air.

Taking perscribed medicationsfor malaria and lupus, and aids seems to help stop the virus from thriving.

Prevention
clean you hoomes with disinfectants and soap and water or multi surface cleaner.

do no use reusable bags unless you bealch them out or wash them. meijers even went so far as to tell the customers to leave them at home.

Wear gloves its a barrier between you and the disease set your new purchases off to the side if they ar not perishables for 3 days or disinfect them wioe them clean.

if a person should fall ill notify 911 immediately.
Just my thoughts nd info i obtained reading through out the world because this is a global fight that we must win!
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mellowde View Post
I didn't prep for "this one aspect". I prepped for most every aspects that might happen. Unfortunately no one knows in advance what to expect. I've been monitoring posts on various blogs and haven't found anyone who knows of anyone who is sick with this. Not saying there are none, but it seems odd we don't see the usual Dateline or 20/20 stories about heart-felt stories of those who have had this touch them. Again, not saying it isn't happening...just odd as hell. No one is sick around my area and business' and people are going about day to day life as usual. Maybe we're wrong and maybe we'll all keel over tomorrow...but there has been so many lies and fake news that it's becoming difficult to just accept what we hear.
That's the problem with virusses. They spread, and there's nothing you can see, until you can see the consequences. Once you start seeing the consequences, you're seeing the situation 1-2 weeks back on average. People need to stay inside, where they'd rather go out and fight whatever's attacking them. This causes people to start to think it's not that bad, and break isolation measures causing trouble in the future. They're still taking the jam packed public transportation in New York ... . Most people don't see the sick. Even in New York the numbers are still pretty low considering the population, but it is climbing at an alarming rate.

The best anyone can do at the moment, is stay inside. At worst, it's a world economical disaster then. Overwhelming the hospitals will have a much bigger impact than the original fatality rate of the virus under "controlled" conditions where you can care for everyone. Even if it is frustrating and feels ... helpless?, agitated?, can't really find a good word to describe what i mean, at being unable to actually do something.
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Old 03-27-2020, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by soocom1 View Post
As I was writing this, I received a "EMERGENCY ALERT" from the State of New Mexico on my cell phone that locked the phone until I "confirmed it". This tells me they are tracking my movements and recording the location of my phone to ensure I am not "violating" their public orders.
Umm... no. That's same as to claim that post office tracks your location because it knows where your mailbox is.

Phone operator knows only what tower you are connected to. It is kind of necessary to actually relay any data or calls to you. Cell towers have huge range depending on used band type, so...
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mellowde View Post
This virus is killing .5% of those that get it (that's one in 200 for all those who failed math). Much less than the common flu that goes around each season. There is much hype associated with this particular "pandemic". And some of those who die (many actually) are already suffering and have one foot in the grave already. Putting the nation into a depression will kill far more people than this virus. So, if you follow my drift, you will see that this is a contrived event with much hoopla and bogus figures being splayed for you to consume. Odd how most of the "deaths" are in the liberal hot spots where statistics are easily manipulated by the lib politicians. I don't know, but this thing smells to high heaven.
This Virus reminds me of a slow motion Hurricane. Those who manage
to stay out of the path will mostly survive, but those
who panic will end dead.

The Media seems to want the public to panic. First we were all ******
because we didn't have enough tests. Now we are screwed because we
have more positive tests than most other countries. No one truly knows
what country has more of this virus.

This virus has more effect on people who don't have type O blood.
It has more effect on old people who have health problems.

I agree with your post but disagree with some of the way you put it.
Yet I quoted you, because I disagree more with people who say we are
screwed.

The Media has hyped the unknown to be the killer of us all.

We, as a nation, can beat this. But there will be casualties.

My wife works as a contractor for the defense department.
She helps make wiring harnesses for companies like Boeing.
People at her work are making mistakes because they are
afraid.

We should not underestimate this virus, but I agree with our
President that the cure should not be worse than the virus
itself.

We are not China, or Italy. The Italians are some of the most
physically affectionate people in the world, with men who kiss
each other on a daily basis.

This virus IS SERIOUS, but the Media hype is doing as much
damage as help. Its truly a shame how many people are not
intelligent enough to get their news from different sources.
I expect the suicide rate to go up by a large amount in the
next month.
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:32 AM
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That almost sounds like the democrats here that are calling for socialism, hasn't worked anywhere else but it will be different this time.
Republicans just became the greatest socialists of all time with their Corona Relief Bill. At this point, saying one party is better than the other is like saying one blob of mud is superior to the blob of mud beside it.
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Old 03-28-2020, 09:11 AM
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Republicans just became the greatest socialists of all time with their Corona Relief Bill. At this point, saying one party is better than the other is like saying one blob of mud is superior to the blob of mud beside it.
If you have a kitchen fire, and the only available water to put it out
is in the toilet you just ****ed in- do you put out the fire? Or wait
until the fire department can put it out with clean water?

The Democrats would have been happy to pass nothing,
and rule us from the ashes just like they did in 2008.
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Old 03-28-2020, 09:17 AM
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If you have a kitchen fire, and the only available water to put it out
is in the toilet you just ****ed in- do you put out the fire? Or wait
until the fire department can put it out with clean water?

The Democrats would have been happy to pass nothing,
and rule us from the ashes just like they did in 2008.
Nothing you said changes the facts. If you believe in a set of principles you don't abandon them because it's convenient. If you do, then you were just pretending.

Republicans have been just pretending for years. That Democrats have been, also, does not change that. Or that those who believed their lies were fooled.

Those who now continue to believe such lies show themselves to BE fools, however.
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Old 03-28-2020, 09:25 AM
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Nothing you said changes the facts. If you believe in a set of principles you don't abandon them because it's convenient. If you do, then you were just pretending.

Republicans have been just pretending for years. That Democrats have been, also, does not change that. Or that those who believed their lies were fooled.

Those who now continue to believe such lies show themselves to BE fools, however.
Saving our Country is more than just convenience.
When we dropped an A bomb on women and
children in Japan, we didn't do it because we
liked killing women and children.

If China or Russia replaces us as the number
one Superpower, more people will go into
slavery than just Americans.
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Old 03-28-2020, 09:58 AM
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MRBEALE MRBEALE is offline
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Thread back on track.............

Speads quickly and lasts for a very long time on surfaces and in the air (according to several different sources)

It will kill communists, socialists, capitalists, democrats, republicans, and scientologists all the same.

This is a serious situation no matter what political, or economic views you have.


Uggh.... stating the obvious again..............
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Old 03-28-2020, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBEALE View Post
Thread back on track.............

Speads quickly and lasts for a very long time on surfaces and in the air (according to several different sources)

It will kill communists, socialists, capitalists, democrats, republicans, and scientologists all the same.

This is a serious situation no matter what political, or economic views you have.


Uggh.... stating the obvious again..............
That is stating the facts that matter, no matter our differences, we're all in this together
__________________
Read AND Follow the rules.
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Old 03-28-2020, 04:25 PM
BCseacow83 BCseacow83 is offline
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Recovery time for serious cases is a huge negative for this as well. Normally people on vent, acute need not talking longterm trach patients, are off quickly as their condition improves due to treating the cause.

For instance, a severe CHF patient presents to the ER with an extreme SOB and a respiratory rate of 35 per minute and a SpO2 (oxygen saturation normal is 96-100 and clinically acceptable is >90 with rare exceptions) of 88%. The PT also has +3 pitting edema(extreme fluid retention) and audible course crackles when breathing.

This patient is in severe fluid overload. Amongst other things, we may put this PT temporarily on a vent or BIPAP while we diuresis the PT. As fluid is pulled out the PT improves and we step down the respiratory support, sometimes they are off that day.

With corona, these folks are taking FOREVER in relative terms to get off. I simply never saw this with flu patients.

PT's unable to be driven to hospital by a relative or friend may overwhelm ambulance capabilities. I would hate to be in a car accident and have to wait an extended period of time due to a shortage at my time of need. I have NOT heard of this yet but certainly a possibility.
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Old 03-28-2020, 11:29 PM
ScottPreps ScottPreps is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mellowde View Post
This virus is killing .5% of those that get it (that's one in 200 for all those who failed math). Much less than the common flu that goes around each season.
This is changing fast. You have the very temporary benefit of being slightly right. Sadly, that will likely be wrong within a few weeks. Though I'm sure everyone would be thrilled if you were right and they were wrong, it's not looking like that's going to be the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mellowde View Post
There is much hype associated with this particular "pandemic". And some of those who die (many actually) are already suffering and have one foot in the grave already. Putting the nation into a depression will kill far more people than this virus.
How? Yes, it's true that in the past, there's evidence that financial hardship can of course cause death. There's scholarly articles in well respected places like The Lancet that show cancer deaths can increase due to lack of care for those without insurance who can't afford it. And financial hardship was thought to be a major contributor to thousands of suicides in past economic crises. I'm sure there's more, but you tell me... what are they? And how do they add up to the thousands dying now from this the tens of thousands more that will be gone inside the next few weeks as we double a few times, from a couple thousand today, to 16K. And then if we don't slow it down, 64K in a couple more doubling periods; taking you equal to flu deaths in 1/2 the time, (6 months vs. 12), and then quickly racing past that ratio.

The economic hit can't go on forever. Within another 8 - 12 weeks, the new case rate has to level and then go down and we need to get more back to work. Otherwise of course there will be increasingly longer term consequences. But if not, then not, because economics don't matter at all when you're just dead.

So show me/us the numbers? How, specifically, will more die from a few more months of economic hardship vs the virus itself?
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