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Old 01-06-2020, 09:09 AM
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@ Yorkshire Boy: Just what color IS the sky in your world?
We need a lot more level thinking patriots like Yorkshire Boy in this world rather that war-mongers who think we should further all the wishes of The American Empire!
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:12 AM
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Its all a damn game guys. Always has been. Trouble is, we are the pawns... Stick together, don't get torn up by their media BS.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
You should contribute to our 9-11 conspiracy thread.
Guy comes on like a newly minted neo-Nazi who has just discovered the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. But worse - every facet of every policy of the Kristol Cabal has been front and center public knowledge since before 9/11. Failed policy to a considerable extent, it's true, but his few remaining acolytes still hate Trump for not worshiping it.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:21 AM
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I am on field placement so won't be posting much over the next few months, but thought I would chime in here.

OK 1.

Trump is undergoing impeachment and this is actually creating even more cracks in the GOP for impeachment. I think Trump is acting in a way that he perhaps thinks his presidency is in jepordy so is taking very bold actions, and trying to get a major war occuring that will distract or recharacterize the impeachment issues.

Iran didn't really want war with the US but this is being used to give Iran everything it wanted.

a. withdrawal of all foreign troops from Iraq - this opens up Iraq for Iran to act through its Shiite proxies there.

b. Iran has now pulled out of the nuclear deal - it was previously still staying in it with the EU until this happened, even after the US pulled out of it earlier.

c. It is now willing to openly target US assets - this could include Naval assets at anytime if they come into the gulf. There is an even greater risk to any US ships that enter the gulf.

d. In the event of "high level war" this would cost America many many billions.

e. congress is in the process of limiting trumps war making capabilities with Iran, and this will tie his hands moving forward in regard to any response to Iranian retallations.

While Solemani (a jewish name) (Solomon) was killed and he was a major character in Iran, the characterization that he is unable to ever be replaced I think is flawed logic. There are many capable and smart people in Iran and I would not underestimate Irans ability to draw on intelligent people to fill his shoes.

I think what many many are waiting to see is the response ---- but like theifs in the night, attacks are best done that are unseen.

It is safe to say that Americans are now unsafe anywhere in the world where Iran has access and they could be killed at any time.

Although Irans pledge to only target the military is strong,Trumps pledging to commit warcrimes if any military targets are attacked is creating a situation that is problematic to say the least.

At the very least the US just put the last nail in its coffin in Iraq. There is no doubt this Trump action achieved the policy position that Iraqi lawmakers have been trying to get resolved for years now... the unconditional withdrawal of all US forces in Iraq.

Its done.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Ashley View Post
I am on field placement so won't be posting much over the next few months, but thought I would chime in here.

OK 1.

Trump is undergoing impeachment and this is actually creating even more cracks in the GOP for impeachment. I think Trump is acting in a way that he perhaps thinks his presidency is in jepordy so is taking very bold actions, and trying to get a major war occuring that will distract or recharacterize the impeachment issues.

Iran didn't really want war with the US but this is being used to give Iran everything it wanted.

a. withdrawal of all foreign troops from Iraq - this opens up Iraq for Iran to act through its Shiite proxies there.

b. Iran has now pulled out of the nuclear deal - it was previously still staying in it with the EU until this happened, even after the US pulled out of it earlier.

c. It is now willing to openly target US assets - this could include Naval assets at anytime if they come into the gulf. There is an even greater risk to any US ships that enter the gulf.

d. In the event of "high level war" this would cost America many many billions.

e. congress is in the process of limiting trumps war making capabilities with Iran, and this will tie his hands moving forward in regard to any response to Iranian retallations.

While Solemani (a jewish name) (Solomon) was killed and he was a major character in Iran, the characterization that he is unable to ever be replaced I think is flawed logic. There are many capable and smart people in Iran and I would not underestimate Irans ability to draw on intelligent people to fill his shoes.

I think what many many are waiting to see is the response ---- but like theifs in the night, attacks are best done that are unseen.

It is safe to say that Americans are now unsafe anywhere in the world where Iran has access and they could be killed at any time.

Although Irans pledge to only target the military is strong,Trumps pledging to commit warcrimes if any military targets are attacked is creating a situation that is problematic to say the least.

At the very least the US just put the last nail in its coffin in Iraq. There is no doubt this Trump action achieved the policy position that Iraqi lawmakers have been trying to get resolved for years now... the unconditional withdrawal of all US forces in Iraq.

Its done.
I believe Iran was staging a coup to takeover Iraq and Trump stopped them.

If you would like to see a world with Iran in control of the entire Middle East, you may get your wish someday. Guessing you will not be happy about it.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:34 AM
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I see this morning that Trump is saying that Iraq will have to pay us for all the military infrastructure we've built. Which triggers this thought: The construction cost of those facilities has doubtless been hugely inflated by the typical corruption of the area. If we leave, who will they bleed for baksheesh then? Hmmm? If that thought ever enters their tiny inbred brains, they will change their tune pretty quickly, I'll wager.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
I see this morning that Trump is saying that Iraq will have to pay us for all the military infrastructure we've built. Which triggers this thought: The construction cost of those facilities has doubtless been hugely inflated by the typical corruption of the area. If we leave, who will they bleed for baksheesh then? Hmmm? If that thought ever enters their tiny inbred brains, they will change their tune pretty quickly, I'll wager.

Iraq won't pay nada. But it is reacharaterizing the US presence as an occupation again. Basically this is going to shift Iraqi sentiment totally against the west. Basically US is burning all the bridges it built since 2005.

Basically this opens up insurgeny again, and the Iraqi government isn't going to try to prevent it any attacks on foreign troops.

US started a fight in Iraqs house, and the US were guests, quite the insult. Iraq is now saying get the hell out of my home. Take your fight elsewhere.

You killed one of their family in their home. Not an act of stability, it was a grave insult. It wasn't just an Iranian general killed, it was the deputy commander of the Iraqi militia that was killed. That was the insult to Iraq.


rocket attacks in the green zone.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
Looks like the US has planned ahead:

President says US targeted '52 Iranian sites' if Iran retaliates against America after Soleimani killing
should have made it 72 -> 1 for each virgin.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:46 AM
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Daniel Greenfield has his usual brilliant backgrounder up at Sultan Knish:

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2020...n-baghdad.html

Quote:
The rise of ISIS and the attack on our embassy in Baghdad had their roots in Obama's backing for Iraq's Shiite dominated government in Baghdad. The Bush administration had tried to unite Sunni and Shiite Muslims into a political system that would sideline Al Qaeda on the Sunni side and Iran on the Shiite side. Iraqi civil society was probably always doomed, but Obama's Iraq policy was to turn the country over to the terrorists.
As usual, RTWT.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:50 AM
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As I posted earlier, partition of the country is the solution, but neither Iran nor the Sunni Arabs want that, because the Kurds would wind up with most of the oil.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tiberius View Post
I think the average American has little appreciation of what could go down from sleeper cells. Iran has had a few decades to plan.

I want the sleeper cells to be activated in America so that we can kill them.

Under your plan we leave the sleeper cells untouched and let Iran do whatever it wants. Because we are afraid and surrender.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Yorkshire Boy View Post
Sadly you're providing the tragic comedy here.

So what was the resolution passed in the USA that allowed you to go to war?
WMD, Iraq involvement in 9/11, Osama Bin Laden conspiring with Saddam, a 30 min warning time of a missile attack by Iraq on a friendly country?

Seriously, what was it?

This has nothing to do with Bush bashing. My PM was involved in this criminal farce, for which he should be in court been tried for war crimes.

Since Blair, my country has had another 4th PM's, all of whom have played their part in carrying out the plan of PNAC, to take out the 6 middle east/north African countries.



Afghanistan still under occupation, Iraq under occupation, Mubarek gone, Ghaddafi dead, other north African leaders gone, Syria attacked, now Iran to be attacked.

Syria has clung on by it's fingertips, now it's Iran's turn to face attack. All the while the same people baying for blood, believing in the self rightiousness of their cause.

19 highjackers, most of whom Saudi nationals, the leader of their terrorist group a Saudi national, Saudi's financing and arming ISIS, violent oppression, kangaroo courts and death penalties of Saudi's calling for reform, the murder and dismemberment of a Saudi journalist, Saudis waging war on Yemen. Not one call to wage war coming from the USA to attack Saudi Arabia.

Yes mate.... it all adds up perfectly.... and you think this is a joke?
Good stuff. I would recommend reading "Giants", about exactly who the global elites are in all countries, where they were educated, which government agencies in their country they worked for, etc. Thick book, came out in 2019. Most Americans seem to not comprehend the existence of an American Empire, but we have all the characteristics of one, such as military bases in most countries and bases surrounding many countries. But all empires have one thing in common. They all eventually fall. Thanks again for standing up to right wing extremists. If you keep posting comments like yours, you'll end up being hated on this site as much as me.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:23 AM
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100% agree and I said that since the beginning. We should have located a strategic base or 2 in a remote area and just told them we would simply be there in case of some invasion or slaughter of the Kurds. Otherwise, let them police themselves. Those bases would be US territory, that we took and they aren't getting them back.

Driving up and down their mine laden roads in hummers was unsafe for our men and contributed little to our main objectives, to prevent a bloodthirsty evil faction from brutalizing civilians, and to prevent a caliphate ruling the entire middle east.

Our troops, jets, tanks, warehouses, artillery, etc would be on a base or 2 out of the way. If they make too much noise, we go kick some ass again and then return to monitoring remotely.
Why is it our business to have any bases in any of those countries? How would we feel if China had military bases in a location on both our coasts. Why don't we mind our own business?
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
I believe Iran was staging a coup to takeover Iraq and Trump stopped them.

If you would like to see a world with Iran in control of the entire Middle East, you may get your wish someday. Guessing you will not be happy about it.

I'm for humanity. I'm not a supranationalist for any state. I believe what is best for humanity is people to be philospher kings and recognize that rule comes from within and from god not an idol or cult head.

I think the US is going to face some policy issues but not from Iran, long term is a Chinese game, and they are loosing that game.

For the US to get dragged down in another multitrillion dollar war on the cusp of a recession without global concenssus is just a boondoggle. IF trump wasn't pro zionist none of this stuff would be happening right now.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:35 AM
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That is because we bit off more than we could chew in terms of trying to dictate the economic, political, social, and one can argue religious order of a nation (iraq). We really didn't need to be in the cities like we were patrolling like we were their defacto police force. We should have made the mission simple. Take out the regime, degrade their military capability, and stay on the outside as we support whatever new govt were to take over. Will it have worked out? Not likely, but that is their problem not ours. However, while they make their pursuits to rebuild, we could keep tabs on who is trying to mass an anti American force and deal with them right then and there like ISIS without having to come back when they get too big. TO some extent we did end up doing that, but at the cost of getting too embedded in their business early on trying to spread democracy. Let them fight about it among themselves. We just need to pick the right horse to support and lay in wait on the outskirts gathering intelligence and hitting targets of opportunity. The mistake was trying to make the US army function in a way it was not really designed too.

Why is it that the US public made a bigger stink about IRAQ v Afghanistan? There are several reasons, but one more notable for me was that we had far less causalities in Afghanistan. WE were not doing the house to house (AFGHANISTAN) to the degree in which we thought we had too in IRAQ. Fallujah is a huge sore spot as you mentioned because we did take a heavy loss just to let the city fall right back into the terrorists hands. WE didn't have to do that because that meant fighting on their terms. It should always be on our terms..
Iraq was on your terms.

The reason why Afghanistan was morally supported around the world was because you had a legitimate mandate and at the time a clear goal. Capture Osama Bin Laden and destroy the Al Qaeda network.

Iraq was not a legitimate target, they weren't involved in 9/11, had no WMD and Bin Laden wasn't in league with Saddam. It was a war of regime change as stated prior to 9/11 in the PNAC paper, and these wars of aggression in the middle east and north Africa have been part of that ever since.

American military casualties in Iraq are insignificant compared to the numbers of Iraqi casualties in Iraq. In March you will have been there as an occupying force for 17 years.

Americans are rather proud of gaining their Independence from the British empire and believe it was a just fight for freedom from a tyrannical state. Using that same logic, are Iraqis just in their cause to free themselves from occupation?
I am talking about specific tactical engagements, not the overall military strategy which you are right was on our terms. I agree on your statement about why Afghanistan was morally supported, but if US casualties mounted that support would have dwindled at a much faster rate than it is now.

I agree Iraq was not the proper target (it should have been Iran from the jump), but it happened and like Powell said but only got it half way right. You break it, you bought it. Nope, you break it, make sure who ever puts it back together doesn’t try to design it against you as is the case in Iraq.

I am not disputing the questionable decision on going in there in the first place. What I am saying is that we did and the consequences from that allowed Iran to infiltrate this country and install their own political and diplomatic shadow structure to create a buffer. A buffer that has allowed and even encouraged them to expand their influence in the Middle East to counter Saudi and Israeli power. The hundreds of thousands of deaths in Syria has blood that is on their hands too.

That country should have rid itself of Assad early on before the Russians even considered stepping in. It was the Iranians who propped up the soon to be fallen dictator. They interfered in someone else’s affairs for their own gain. They were able to get away with that because we left. You think they could have pull that off if we stood our ground in Iraq?

The buffer the Iranians currently enjoy is because of our missteps. We did the dirty work. We shed the blood. For what? For them? Just for them to take it over? Because stupid ass Obama and his self righteous world view. But look at us now. On the brink of having to go right back in there, but this time with no real support (which is why we will win the fist to fist, but will lose the political fight). Our own countrymen can’t support us. Was reading article after article on the Soleimani killing. My God, you’d think the roof was falling. I can’t imagine the horror of republicans pouncing on Obama after killing bin laden.

This guy Soleimani was heavily involved in targeting US soldiers in Iraq during and after the war. Targeting him sent a clear message to the Iranians and now they are going to tread a lot more cautiously. I know in the long run we are going to lose the political fight. I know that our efforts aren’t going to have the same impact as it should because of the naivety of Obama and trump for that matter. They’ve change things and I don’t see any real progress anytime soon besides these reactionary courses of action, better than nothing. But one thing I can tell you is this: whether we stay taking pop shots or we leave completely. I guarantee you that we will have no choice later, but to get directly involved because the Wolf pack has grown too big and causing all sorts of havoc.

My perception is this: we might as well face the threat on our terms. Right now we are losing (maybe even pretty much lost) that ability because we felt under Obama that we needed moral standing. Whether we are devils or saints our presence there will be inevitable because of Israel whether we like it or not. They only reason Israel still exists is because the Wolfpack isn’t strong enough yet. But rest assure as we seek the moral high ground that they will be in due time. In due time. When they do, are you brits going to spearhead the rescue effort? Doubt it. It amazes me when people sleep nice and cozy under the blanket of protection provided and then questions the manner in which it was provided.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
I believe Iran was staging a coup to takeover Iraq and Trump stopped them.

If you would like to see a world with Iran in control of the entire Middle East, you may get your wish someday. Guessing you will not be happy about it.
I think you need to educate yourself with the history of The Great American Empire. You might try Googling "Empire Files", with Abby Martin where you will learn of the many ways our "great" country is currently killing lots of innocents. If you keep your eyes open you should find that American is the greatest terrorist country in the world.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by eskrima View Post
should have made it 72 -> 1 for each virgin.
People sure do like to believe everything from government sources!
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:40 AM
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[QUOT19961534]Welp I guess this high level official shouldn't have been some place he shouldn't have been. Seems to me that someone that high on the pecking order would be in his own country. One has to ask themselves what was he doing in iraq to begin with?
************************************************** **********
KALASH,

He was scouting for other targets to arrack. He was the Number 3 Man in Iran country. Hit the General assembly as they convene and finish the job. Many of the people in Iran want a political change.

************************************************** ************

Maybe the higher ups in iran decided they wanted to get rid of him and sent him to iraq knowing he'd be blown to smithereens and they accomplish two things, getting rid of him which would give them an excuse to start more crap, in other words using him as a pawn[/QUOTE]
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
As I posted earlier, partition of the country is the solution, but neither Iran nor the Sunni Arabs want that, because the Kurds would wind up with most of the oil.
What we don't need is any regime change which only benefits the military-industrial complex.
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Old 01-06-2020, 10:48 AM
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Why is it our business to have any bases in any of those countries? How would we feel if China had military bases in a location on both our coasts. Why don't we mind our own business?
Iraq invaded Kuwait, and was likely to invade Saudi Arabia next.
And he was committing genocide by gassing the Kurds.
And there were reports they were developing nuclear weapons.

The UN inspectors were getting thrown out and Saddam was being belligerent.

So the first war was to set some boundaries and remove them from Kuwait.

The second one was driven by the PNAC plan, which had no reason, other than PNAC's goal of Empire. The yellow vial of enriched uranium nonsense served as the excuse, and UN US demands for more inspections. Sadaam was an idiot and refused the inspections and inexplicably kept bragging about his military might.

once we invaded, the reason for the war changed to whatever they could say to cover the absence of WMDs. "It was to liberate the people there, it was to fight terror over there instead of at home, and also to prevent the genocide of the Kurds as Iraq would not respect the UN sanctioned "No-Fly zone" set up to prevent the extermination of the Kurds. Actually decent reasons, but was not the original justification for the war. Only that they refused nuke inspectors was the original reason for war.

Why are we the policemen now? Because we are the only power capable of it, and because orderly flow of oil to the world is vital to the global economy and well being of our fellow inhabitants of Earth.

If we leave The middle east entirely What do you think will happen?

Iran and maybe Russia and China will quickly seize the entire region.
That would be very bad for the West.

The part where I think we are really off base, is imposing sanctions on Russia and even Iran.
This really put them under pressure to take military actions. it is the first shots of war, and we are the ones starting it.
And it causes suffering of the poor in those sanctioned countries.

It basically makes peace impossible. Our Deep State absolutely required the US to impose those sanctions.
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