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Old 08-09-2020, 09:04 PM
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Default New marksmanship record



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For all the Jarheads out there.

Well Done, Marine!
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Old 08-09-2020, 09:13 PM
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^ Indeed. ..and he looks like Jason Bourne..

Top Respect..
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Old 08-09-2020, 09:19 PM
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Awesome shooting
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Old 08-11-2020, 04:08 PM
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Nice shooting Jarhead.
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Old 08-11-2020, 04:11 PM
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Very impressive!
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Old 08-12-2020, 10:07 PM
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Impressive but I do need to point out they get to use a 3x optic now instead of iron sights like in the past. Something I don't agree with for qualification. Which should be used to reinforce basic marksmanship. So the Marine is ready in case his optic goes TU. The optic should of course be used for combat shooting courses of fire.

From the comments it seems that their claim of record breaking might be a bit off. As in the comments section a Former Marine related shooting 248 with iron sights as a recruit back in 1988 and that said feat was written up in Leatherneck Magazine.
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Old 08-13-2020, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Impressive but I do need to point out they get to use a 3x optic now instead of iron sights like in the past. Something I don't agree with for qualification. Which should be used to reinforce basic marksmanship. So the Marine is ready in case his optic goes TU. The optic should of course be used for combat shooting courses of fire.

From the comments it seems that their claim of record breaking might be a bit off. As in the comments section a Former Marine related shooting 248 with iron sights as a recruit back in 1988 and that said feat was written up in Leatherneck Magazine.
The course has changed since 1988. Might be what record they are talking about.
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Old 08-13-2020, 07:59 PM
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The course has changed since 1988. Might be what record they are talking about.
I could be wrong but I thought Boot Camp was still the old style course of fire.

Either way I don't agree with optics for basic marksmanship quals.
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Old 08-13-2020, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
I could be wrong but I thought Boot Camp was still the old style course of fire.

Either way I don't agree with optics for basic marksmanship quals.
According to this there were some changes made in 2016. http://recruitparents.com/bootcamp/qualification.asp and some more changes were coming.
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...-need-to-know/

I do agree that optics shouldn't be used for qualing. At least not in boot camp.
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Old 08-13-2020, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Impressive but I do need to point out they get to use a 3x optic now instead of iron sights like in the past. Something I don't agree with for qualification. Which should be used to reinforce basic marksmanship. So the Marine is ready in case his optic goes TU. The optic should of course be used for combat shooting courses of fire.

From the comments it seems that their claim of record breaking might be a bit off. As in the comments section a Former Marine related shooting 248 with iron sights as a recruit back in 1988 and that said feat was written up in Leatherneck Magazine.
I must agree with Steve here.

"Ferrell anticipated performing well on the range but never expected to walk away with the highest rifle score in the history of the depot. He would score a near perfect 248 out of 250 on Table One of the Department of Defense’s toughest basic marksmanship challenge, the Marine Corps rifle qualification test."

Um. Did guys in the 1990s have ANY optics? I could be wrong, and not trying to take anything from this young Marine, but are we not just moving the goal posts?

This is sorta like the NFL offense records that are constantly being shattered. Well, yeah, the Defense can't touch receivers and can't touch the Quarterback, and the game has radically shifted to benefit the offense with movements allowed, shifting allowed, etc... So it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. Just like this. Dude is using optics. No duh his score is going to be near perfect.
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Old 08-14-2020, 08:33 AM
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Optics dont actually help you shoot any better, they just help you see what youre shooting at better. Some of them anyway.

Whether or not that helps you shoot better, or not, really depends on if you can actually shoot in the first place.

Ive always found magnified optics to be more of a detriment, especially in "target" type shooting, simply because it magnifies things Id prefer werent magnified, and its more of a distraction than a help.

Of course, if thats how you plan on shooting overall, then you need to learn to shoot with what youre going to use and figure it out.

As long as you can see the target, and have a good aiming point on it, I find the irons to be easier when shooting certain types of matches. For anything beyond a traditional "target type" match, I want a red dot. Especially these days as I get older and my eyes arent what they once were.


Once you step off the target range, the advantage to some of the optics becomes instantly clear and obvious.


Inevitably, those from a previous era always seem to say that they had it tougher than those who are of the current era. And thats just human nature and how its always going to be I guess.

Shooting "expert", while it is a goal, isnt "the" goal. The true goal is getting there, and maintaining it.

That boy above is likely to be one of the few you see, with that added "rung" on his crossed rifle badge, and good on him.

If he keeps that up, he'll soon be "one of the few", among the few, and shooting a LOT more than the rest.
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Old 08-14-2020, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
Optics dont actually help you shoot any better, they just help you see what youre shooting at better. Some of them anyway.

Whether or not that helps you shoot better, or not, really depends on if you can actually shoot in the first place.

Ive always found magnified optics to be more of a detriment, especially in "target" type shooting, simply because it magnifies things Id prefer werent magnified, and its more of a distraction than a help.

Of course, if thats how you plan on shooting overall, then you need to learn to shoot with what youre going to use and figure it out.

As long as you can see the target, and have a good aiming point on it, I find the irons to be easier when shooting certain types of matches. For anything beyond a traditional "target type" match, I want a red dot. Especially these days as I get older and my eyes arent what they once were.


Once you step off the target range, the advantage to some of the optics becomes instantly clear and obvious.


Inevitably, those from a previous era always seem to say that they had it tougher than those who are of the current era. And thats just human nature and how its always going to be I guess.

Shooting "expert", while it is a goal, isnt "the" goal. The true goal is getting there, and maintaining it.

That boy above is likely to be one of the few you see, with that added "rung" on his crossed rifle badge, and good on him.

If he keeps that up, he'll soon be "one of the few", among the few, and shooting a LOT more than the rest.
IME optics give faster target acquisition and absolutely greater accuracy at range with a magnified optic.

This seems to be quite elementary.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:20 PM
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IME optics give faster target acquisition and absolutely greater accuracy at range with a magnified optic.

This seems to be quite elementary.
That scope doesnt make the gun anymore accurate. It does let you see the target better, in "perfect" conditions.

Have you ever actually shot a rifle with a high power optic at any real distance, say slung in, from prone, in the heat, with a lot of mirage, and your heart thumping and making the crosshairs bounce while you try and keep it on target? "Which" target do you shoot and at what "beat"?

You dont have as much "distraction" with irons.

Of course, on a target range, the targets are "big" and have a positive and consistent appearance and aiming point.
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Old 08-14-2020, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
That scope doesnt make the gun anymore accurate. It does let you see the target better, in "perfect" conditions.

Have you ever actually shot a rifle with a high power optic at any real distance, say slung in, from prone, in the heat, with a lot of mirage, and your heart thumping and making the crosshairs bounce while you try and keep it on target? "Which" target do you shoot and at what "beat"?

You dont have as much "distraction" with irons.

Of course, on a target range, the targets are "big" and have a positive and consistent appearance and aiming point.
Said no deer hunter with a scoped rifle, ever.

Maybe you should write the leadership at the US Army Sniper School and suggest they remove their scopes from their rifles since irons would be more useful at range.

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Old 08-14-2020, 02:08 PM
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And maybe you should actually get out more and learn some "real life" things.

Most of the deer hunters around here, are actually "deer shooters", and shoot 100 pound whitetails with a 7mm MAG and a scope that can read the small print on a pill bottle at a mile from a bench rest in their "stands". All at 50 yards, and over a week, maybe two a year. Yea boy! Natural born killers!

For about 30 years, I shot (on a weekly basis), in both practice and matches, a lot of High Power and military-type matches, with some "professional" (not your average GI) military shooters, on a lot of different ranges and doing a lot of different things. Ive shot a lot of little critters at some fairly long ranges with a scoped rifle too.

Theres a lot more to shooting, than just the gun and the gizmos you put on them. You dont learn to shoot, just reading and talking about it. And the BS really does stop at the range when youre asked to "go ahead, show me, right now". Thats always the most fun too.... STFU and shoot!
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Old 08-14-2020, 02:47 PM
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Scoped or irons,that Marine still shot very well. The old failing I found with iron sights was in low light. We never had the night glow sights.
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Old 08-15-2020, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
That scope doesnt make the gun anymore accurate. It does let you see the target better, in "perfect" conditions.

Have you ever actually shot a rifle with a high power optic at any real distance, say slung in, from prone, in the heat, with a lot of mirage, and your heart thumping and making the crosshairs bounce while you try and keep it on target? "Which" target do you shoot and at what "beat"?

You dont have as much "distraction" with irons.

Of course, on a target range, the targets are "big" and have a positive and consistent appearance and aiming point.
No but it does make the shooter more accurate. They can better see the target and all things being equal can more precisely place their shots on that target.

No more squaring up the front sight on the target at 500yds so that you have equal amounts of white all the way around and pulling the trigger. With the 3.5/4 power ACOG you can actually see where your shot will go.

We are talking about the KD course here and not some long range 1000+ yard sniper competition. And I have shoot 1000yd competition with the irons on my Garand.
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Old 08-15-2020, 07:20 AM
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What I was getting at was the distractions you get with the optics, especially the higher power optics, you dont have with the irons.

No doubt you can see better, with the optics, especially on a clear, mirage free day.
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Old 08-15-2020, 08:01 AM
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Congratulations Jarhead

This qualification was about this particular Marine in competition with other recruits on this particular day.

Not 20 years ago

Not 10 years ago

If you want to judge the course 20 years ago, he should also have been using a service rifle from that time period

The purpose of this qualification is about Marine recruits today, not ones from another time period

10 years from now, they'll be using a different rifle and a different optic to judge Marine recruits in the future


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Old 08-18-2020, 12:15 AM
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Congratulations Jarhead

This qualification was about this particular Marine in competition with other recruits on this particular day.

Not 20 years ago

Not 10 years ago

If you want to judge the course 20 years ago, he should also have been using a service rifle from that time period

The purpose of this qualification is about Marine recruits today, not ones from another time period

10 years from now, they'll be using a different rifle and a different optic to judge Marine recruits in the future


SEMPER FI
He used the M16A4 for qualification.

M16A4 was adopted by the Corps in 1998

That's over 20 years ago.

!0 years from now I would venture the M16A4 will still be the rifle used in Boot Camp. It's manual of arms, sights and ergos will allow easy transition to the M4A1 or M27 once in the Fleet and in fact there will still be M16A4s in use as well in non-infantry units.

And 46 years ago I qual'ed in Boot Camp with an M16A1 which isn't materially different from the current A4.
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