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Old 08-08-2020, 02:12 PM
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MyPrepperLife MyPrepperLife is offline
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The instructor for the Cooperative Extension food-preservation class I took warned us about making up our own canning recipes and using recipes found just anywhere on the Internet. She told us to stick to university Web sites, the Ball Web site, and of course the Ball Blue Book.

The following story is lore in this neck of the woods.

A woman grew tomatoes and canned spaghetti sauce. One evening, her family of three sat down to a spaghetti supper. The husband and son ate spaghetti sauce containing meat, while the wife had spaghetti sauce without meat.

The husband and son became very ill and nearly died. Years later, they both were still very ill.

What happened?

The problem was that the woman used a water-bath canner to can the spaghetti sauce with meat as well as the spaghetti sauce without meat. Of course, she should have used a pressure canner for the sauce containing meat.
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Old 08-08-2020, 02:47 PM
Potawami II Potawami II is online now
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Originally Posted by MyPrepperLife View Post
The instructor for the Cooperative Extension food-preservation class I took warned us about making up our own canning recipes and using recipes found just anywhere on the Internet. She told us to stick to university Web sites, the Ball Web site, and of course the Ball Blue Book.

The following story is lore in this neck of the woods.

A woman grew tomatoes and canned spaghetti sauce. One evening, her family of three sat down to a spaghetti supper. The husband and son ate spaghetti sauce containing meat, while the wife had spaghetti sauce without meat.

The husband and son became very ill and nearly died. Years later, they both were still very ill.

What happened?

The problem was that the woman used a water-bath canner to can the spaghetti sauce with meat as well as the spaghetti sauce without meat. Of course, she should have used a pressure canner for the sauce containing meat.
That is not a result of changing up the recipe, it's a result of using the wrong canner. It is very likely that she had canned the sauce with meat the same way for years. This time it didn't work.

I have a feeling that you would be shocked at some of the canning processes many of us on here survived growing up. I won't list the things my mom did wrong because I don't want someone new to canning to see it and think it might be ok.
Quite simply you can get away with it until you don't.

As long as you are using the right canner, using the right pressure, and using the time for the longest individual ingredient you are good to go.
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MyPrepperLife View Post
The instructor for the Cooperative Extension food-preservation class I took warned us about making up our own canning recipes and using recipes found just anywhere on the Internet. She told us to stick to university Web sites, the Ball Web site, and of course the Ball Blue Book.

The following story is lore in this neck of the woods.

A woman grew tomatoes and canned spaghetti sauce. One evening, her family of three sat down to a spaghetti supper. The husband and son ate spaghetti sauce containing meat, while the wife had spaghetti sauce without meat.

The husband and son became very ill and nearly died. Years later, they both were still very ill.

What happened?

The problem was that the woman used a water-bath canner to can the spaghetti sauce with meat as well as the spaghetti sauce without meat. Of course, she should have used a pressure canner for the sauce containing meat.
Pressure canners are difficult to buy overseas. Most of the world does a type of WB canning and until the pressure canner everyone in this country did WB canning. To can meat in a WB canner itís done for 3 hours instead of the 75 minutes pc. For pints. I have a picture of the time necessary for WB canning low acid foods and not something Iím interested in doing.
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:03 PM
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Pressure canners are difficult to buy overseas. Most of the world does a type of WB canning and until the pressure canner everyone in this country did WB canning. To can meat in a WB canner itís done for 3 hours instead of the 75 minutes pc. For pints. I have a picture of the time necessary for WB canning low acid foods and not something Iím interested in doing.
Good, because it isn't safe. You could water bath meat for a week and it would never get to the temperature to kill botulism spores. That said there is a way to theoretically do so but I wouldn't consider it safe.
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Old 08-08-2020, 11:30 PM
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[QUOTE=Potawami II;20506788]Canners exploding used to be a problem. Nobody from my mom's family will use a pressure canner because of an explosion that my great granny had. Same with my wife's family and an explosion her granny had and carried the scars for life. I know of other people who are equally skittish for the same reason.

My mom frequently used a pressure cooker to prepare daily meals and can various foods. Her,s was purchased in early 1960,s and had a blowout plug. A few times I saw that plug shoot towards the ceiling like a bullet. She eventually lost it and stuck a broken pencil into the hole to replace it. I saw that shoot towards the ceiling a few times too.
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Old 08-09-2020, 07:58 AM
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I have seen many pressure cookers and canners. Some of them were quite old. All of them had metal locking lids. How does one of them explode? I think they all had blow out holes, too. I can see one exploding if opening under pressure but that seems like a the operator would get burned. Since some have personal experience could you explain? I have wondered about this for years. How does a locking lid blow off?
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Old 08-09-2020, 08:17 AM
Potawami II Potawami II is online now
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Originally Posted by Cat wrangler View Post
I have seen many pressure cookers and canners. Some of them were quite old. All of them had metal locking lids. How does one of them explode? I think they all had blow out holes, too. I can see one exploding if opening under pressure but that seems like a the operator would get burned. Since some have personal experience could you explain? I have wondered about this for years. How does a locking lid blow off?
If the operator were in the same room they did get burned. In the case of my wife's grandmother she was in the kitchen when it exploded. My understanding is that it basically destroyed that side of the kitchen and that she was burned so badly that she was standing there screaming and when her husband came running into the room he grabbed her by the upper arms and yelled in her face to get her attention. Her upper arms had burned badly enough that with the skin and stuff falling of his handprints actually scarred them and never went away.

I can't verify that since I never met her, she died right after we got together. my wife had told me about the explosion the first time I got out the pressure canner to do meat. She was very scared of it and still quite nervous when we use it. One of her aunts was up while we were canning and it was she who told us just how bad the explosion was and about the burns and scars. She would not enter the kitchen while it was running.

ETA: Also I have seen some very very old ones at yard sales that locked by flip down bails that I swear had no blowout valve at all. With the valve my understanding is that when it blows out it relieves enough pressure to keep the canner from exploding and you just steam your kitchen. I've never tried to test that.
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Cat wrangler View Post
I have seen many pressure cookers and canners. Some of them were quite old. All of them had metal locking lids. How does one of them explode? I think they all had blow out holes, too. I can see one exploding if opening under pressure but that seems like a the operator would get burned. Since some have personal experience could you explain? I have wondered about this for years. How does a locking lid blow off?
Don't underestimate how powerful expanding steam is. Steel and cast iron boilers made to contain hundreds of pounds of pressure per square inch will rupture if things go out of control. A pressure cooker is actually pretty thin steel, and old ones have been weakened by years of use. A tiny flaw is all that's needed for a blast if the vent is plugged and the steam keeps building with no way to escape.
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:53 AM
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Don't underestimate how powerful expanding steam is. Steel and cast iron boilers made to contain hundreds of pounds of pressure per square inch will rupture if things go out of control. A pressure cooker is actually pretty thin steel, and old ones have been weakened by years of use. A tiny flaw is all that's needed for a blast if the vent is plugged and the steam keeps building with no way to escape.
Actually the old ones are mostly fairly heavy aluminum. The newer ones, with the exception of an American, are much thinner walled. I just cannot imagine leaving a pressure cooker long enought to happen. This is after years of using one. IF the pressure alone is truly exploding a cooker, that is sheer negligence. I personally have never seen one that does not have an emergency relief plug, which I guess could plug.

ETA, sorry for thread derail. Food is all part of this and the alternative to grocery store is doing it yourself. Fear is a deterrent and I think fear of pressure canning is basically infounded.
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Old 08-09-2020, 11:58 AM
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Don't underestimate how powerful expanding steam is. Steel and cast iron boilers made to contain hundreds of pounds of pressure per square inch will rupture if things go out of control. A pressure cooker is actually pretty thin steel, and old ones have been weakened by years of use. A tiny flaw is all that's needed for a blast if the vent is plugged and the steam keeps building with no way to escape.
The Boston Marathon Bombers used pressure cookers. I doubt that they bought old weakened ones for that use. Don't know if they modified them or not, but I would guess that a bolt nut and washer into the vent and blowout holes would do it.

You're right that much pressure can be very impressive.
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Old 08-09-2020, 07:21 PM
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Default Canning/canner comments

Comments about canners and canning have been moved here from the covid 19 grocery shopping thread
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Old 08-09-2020, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat wrangler View Post
I have seen many pressure cookers and canners. Some of them were quite old. All of them had metal locking lids. How does one of them explode? I think they all had blow out holes, too. I can see one exploding if opening under pressure but that seems like a the operator would get burned. Since some have personal experience could you explain? I have wondered about this for years. How does a locking lid blow off?
As a child, 5 or 6, I lived through a canner explosion. Luckily I was in the fridge when it happened and the door protected me except for cuts on my legs and feet. I still have the scars. My grandmother was canning green beans with an old heavy aluminum canner. To lock the lid to the canner you had to push down, compressing the seal, and twist the lid like tightening a jar lid. She had arthritis and that time couldnít twist it completely into the locked position but thought it would be ok. Bad decision. The lid blew off, went through the range hood, hit the ceiling, and bounced on the floor. Glass, beans, and hot water covered two rooms.

The best way I can describe the failure .... in the locked position you have 12 inches of locking/mating surface. With the lid half on it was only 6 inches and it couldnít withstand the stress. It was not over pressure but an equipment failure from human induced error.

I pressure can extensively and have no fear of an explosion. I also use All American Canners and exercise simple caution.
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Old 08-09-2020, 09:07 PM
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The Boston Marathon Bombers used pressure cookers. I doubt that they bought old weakened ones for that use. Don't know if they modified them or not, but I would guess that a bolt nut and washer into the vent and blowout holes would do it.

You're right that much pressure can be very impressive.
I think the pressure was induced chemically rather than with heat. I could be wrong but I don't think there was a stove top handy.
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:32 AM
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I think the pressure was induced chemically rather than with heat. I could be wrong but I don't think there was a stove top handy.
Heat and expanding pressure very quickly by chemical reaction.

I foresaw this coming and bought 16 dozen lids at under $3.50/dzn. I bought 4 flats of cans because thatís all they had. I have used up all my used cans and all the new ones bought and on the lookout for more. Been doing lots of canning lately.
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:53 AM
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Beirut is a good example of a chemical reaction.

The principles of heat and pressure are quite basic. A pc, by design, is quite safe. While an accident with one could be devastating, just basic safe use eliminates that risk. It is inevitable that bwb is brought up in these threads. Those too carry risks. Boiling water and heavy pots. Burns and a big mess if dropped.

I will say it again, safe food preservation is quite easy. People worried about food supply should be able to preserve food. While there are a few real incidents of mainly user error, most are just tales.
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Old 08-10-2020, 11:01 AM
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My wife's mother had a pressure cannier blow up. No one was hurt but the kitchen was a mess. Her brothers wife said she thought it was operator error. This would have been in the late 1950's.
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Old 08-10-2020, 06:30 PM
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I ordered 3 gaskets, lift pins and safety plugs for my Mirro canners back in March for $7 bucks each. They just got here yesterday!! The gaskets have been on back order. I found some for 25-30, but didn't really need them for that price. Only one canner needs a lift pin assembly.

2 weeks ago local Lowes had 2 pallets of ball pints. Yesterday they where down to 15or 20 cases. Haven't checked on lids lately


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Old 08-10-2020, 06:34 PM
Potawami II Potawami II is online now
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No problem with new jars here. Haven't looked for flat lids in a couple months, but haven't heard of any shortages locally.
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Old 08-11-2020, 03:07 PM
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Lids are unavailable at any price here in my little town in Central KY. I had no idea there was a shortage of lids until I went out looking for them today. I planted 2X the normal number of tomato plants this year, and had planned on putting up about 50 pints of tomato sauce (we use a lot of it). I don't know what I'm going to do.
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Old 08-11-2020, 04:09 PM
Texas23 Texas23 is offline
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Lids are unavailable at any price here in my little town in Central KY. I had no idea there was a shortage of lids until I went out looking for them today. I planted 2X the normal number of tomato plants this year, and had planned on putting up about 50 pints of tomato sauce (we use a lot of it). I don't know what I'm going to do.
Considering the extreme price for (disposable) lids online, if you can find them in stock......

Perhaps time to invest in Tattler Lids. In Stock.

http://tattlerproducts.com/Store/index.html

Good Luck!
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