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Old 07-05-2020, 11:53 AM
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Camelfilter Camelfilter is online now
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
THESE things are PIERCING in noise and would be easy to set up as trip wire noise makers.

and
they are CHEAP

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
How would you set them up? Not seeing easy here, as to why Iím asking is all. So obviously am missing something.

Thanks!
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Old 07-06-2020, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Camelfilter View Post
How would you set them up?..
The alarms Base unit uses a 'Hall Effect Sensor' (magnetic transducer, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor ..) to 'sense' when the little 'alarm-disabling fob' is touching it (even thru their plastic shells..) - or pulled away.. When it gets too far away (and the Hall sensor can no longer 'pass' the "ok status" signal..) the alarm-activation part of the circuit kicks in. Super-simple.. (and Could be adapted to trigger "other things", via relay, Ker-Boom, etc..

..As-to 'how it would set up on a trip wire' (vs the 'typical application', a Door or Window..) just need to find a way to a) Secure the 'fob' next to the sensor-point on the Base, and then b) yank the 'fob' away from the Base, ie, here's a stupid-simple sketch I just threw together:



..Where the 'grey circles' are eye-screws / attachment points, the Yellow lines are the 'trip wire', the Blue square is the 'fob', and the Red is the Base unit.. So, in this example, anyone crossing the yellow 'trip', would yank the line (hard-fixed to the Right side, but passing Thru the eye-screw on the Left..) and pull the fob away from the Base, activating the alarm..

..Since the fob is encased in plastic, should be pretty-well 'weather proof', and the magnetic-signal is strong enough, that I think you could prolly even 'zip-lock baggie' the Base unit inside (zip-mouth to the Bottom..) and make That pretty-well weather-proof, also...

(Note: not sure of 'battery life' / circuit durability in extreme-temps, as I'm sure these were primarily designed for Indoor use, but.. Something to experiment with..) You'd need to find a way to 'secure' the fob Next to the Base-sensor, ie: via a bit of scotch-tape over the sides of the fob (not All the way around, just the 'seams', where it mates with the Base..) which would also help reduce 'lightweight trips'.. ya know, like when the Cat walks up and gives it face-snuggles..

Point being: pretty easy / cheap way to have a 'reusable' (as-opposed to the 'one time use till reloaded' 209 shot-primer / other pyro-based-type trips..) perim-trip set up, that Should be a loud (and 'Unique enough'..) alarm to be useful at Base camp..

.02
jd
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Old 07-06-2020, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SoJ_51 View Post
The alarms Base unit uses a 'Hall Effect Sensor' (magnetic transducer, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor ..) to 'sense' when the little 'alarm-disabling fob' is touching it (even thru their plastic shells..) - or pulled away.. When it gets too far away (and the Hall sensor can no longer 'pass' the "ok status" signal..) the alarm-activation part of the circuit kicks in. Super-simple.. (and Could be adapted to trigger "other things", via relay, Ker-Boom, etc..

..As-to 'how it would set up on a trip wire' (vs the 'typical application', a Door or Window..) just need to find a way to yank the 'fob' away from the Base-unit, ie, here's a stupid-simple sketch I just threw together:



..Where the 'grey circles' are eye-screws / attachment points, the Yellow lines are the 'trip wire', the Blue square is the 'fob', and the Red is the Base unit.. So, in this example, anyone crossing the yellow 'trip', would yank the line (hard-fixed to the Right side, but passing Thru the eye-screw on the Left..) and pull the fob away from the Base, activating the alarm..

..Since the fob is encased in plastic, should be pretty-well 'weather proof', and the magnetic-draw is strong enough, that I think you could prolly even 'zip-lock baggie' the Base unit inside (zip-mouth to the Bottom..) and make That pretty-well weather-proof, also...

(Note: not sure of 'battery life' / circuit durability in extreme-temps, as I'm sure these were primarily designed for Indoor use, but.. Something to experiment with..) And I could see putting a bit of scotch-tape over the sides of the fob (not All the way around, just the 'seams', where it mates with the Base..) to help reduce 'lightweight trips'.. ya know, like when the Cat walks up and gives it face-snuggles..

Point being: pretty easy / cheap way to have a 'reusable' (as-opposed to the 'one time use till reloaded' 209 shot-primer / other pyro-based-type trips..) perim-trip set up, that Should be a loud (and 'Unique enough'..) alarm to be useful at Base camp..

.02
jd
Ahh, scotch tape or eye hooks! As, I honestly couldn’t think on how those contact magnets would reasonably hold a length of line & such.

Dunno, maybe they can?

Anyhow, now that you’ve given a couple ways to set them up, see how they could help. Thanks!
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:11 PM
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me and a few friends have thought this through somewhat. what we arrived at is somewhat of a hybrid strategy.

1. well-placed sentry posts that can cover roughly 60% of the ground within rifle distance and a good deal beyond under surveillance. both sentries and home base are in direct radio communication.

2. area-denial tactics to reduce the likelihood of infiltration from the other 40% of area that has reduced visibility and is harder to keep covered

3. both the sentry posts and the area-denial tactics are not intended to be visible from any distance until you come into direct contact

4. the intent of the sentry posts and the area-denial is to make the defensive team aware of the threat with enough time to rush to pre-determined ambush points based on the sentry's intel. this would have to be practiced to get down - it needs to be fast and quiet. a well-deployed ambush should be able to handle a group even larger than yours with minimal risk.

to summarize: detect (sentries) -> delay/divert (barbed wire, vietcong-style punji stick traps) -> destroy (ambush).

fighting from within the house is not tactically sound. you have to ambush them somewhere outside, preferably from cover+concealment. i am not an expert but i have a lot of confidence in this plan. the biggest downside is that it requires a bit of manpower to manage. even if the sentries are on 12 hour shifts and you have just the 2 posts that's 4 people just for sentry duty, and ideally your defensive team that will set up the ambush is not currently on sentry duty. for groups under 10 this means some of your women are going to have to be involved. turns out, protecting their children is a powerful aggressive motivator. for a group of just 2, i think some of this still works, but some of the more manpower-intensive portions will have to be cut. the plan you make has to be tailored to your geography and area.

so in a sense the house itself is not being up-armored or fortified because the plan is to ambush enemies outside, because they expect people to fight from within their homes, or to be caught unaware while in their homes. there is some fortification done to the property or adjacent properties that get absorbed into the larger compound, but not in an attempt to fortify the fighting structure, but to divert or delay incoming enemies to give time for the ambush team to get into position. if they hit a kill/maim trap before that, they might decide to GTFO and be done. and a dude screaming for his mother is a pretty good perimeter alarm.
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Old 07-06-2020, 12:31 PM
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I think the only way to do the In plain sight and fortified would take something different than a standard house. Maybe, as mentioned above, interior fortifications in the main "house" where actual living area is below ground. Barbed wire can be painted black to make it additionally difficult to see in the above room scenarios. Also chemical irritants could be placed in pipes hooked to a air compressor or pressurized tank to allow you to spray the area. Create additional visual issues along with adverse reactions. My initial thought would be lye, but it can cause combustion during reaction. Finely ground pepper might be a cheap option. If the areas are not used, normal looking doors can be nailed shut or have hidden locking points. Creating a funneling effect. A hidden set of pathways that give protected firing points would be good if building the building from scratch. Think hidden hallways like old mansions had sometimes. Armor up the walls so that enemies firing back can't get at you. Additionally, you need to work out fire resistance and retardation. Given enough grief, some enemies will say F It and burn the place down. Not good if you are living below it.

Now obviously this requires a lot of planning and cost. That would be in addition to constructing your underground dwelling. At a certain point you spend so much that you don't have cash left to buy things they would want to pillage.

One thing that I do think would be viable if you are building a new structure. Look into hardening at least some walls. Something as simple as sealed bags of dry sand would help if thick enough. Structurally, you would have to accommodate its weight, but it would simply be there on the off chance you need some bullet resistance. Most stick built homes are pretty much cardboard boxes when you hit them with rifle rounds. Brick or block is better, but still not impervious to even concentrated 5.56 round. Ideally multiple layers of AR500 steel in the walls would be great, but try pricing 4x8 ft sheets of it. lol
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Old 07-06-2020, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Camelfilter View Post
Ahh, scotch tape or eye hooks! ...honestly couldn’t think on how those contact magnets would reasonably hold..
Actually, I'm glad you posted that, as my 2am brain wasn't recalling an important point I should have been clearer about in the first post, derp..

The purpose of the fob's magnet Isn't to 'stick it to the Base' - it's there soley to provide the magnetic-field for the Hall-sensor, so..

..Indeed, something 'lightweight hold' (scotch tape, or perhaps 2 beads of 'low tack' hot glue, etc..) is Needed in this 'non-window / door setup concept', to provide that 'hold it in place' (which is Usually accomplished via the adhesive pad on the rear of the fob (and Base, also..)

..Alternatively, if the 'Base-post' / side is, say, a steel plate, etc, I suppose the fob might 'adhere' to that, and keep it aligned to the Base sensor-point (or, if-say, in a Wood-post / tree, etc, you could 'embed' a small button-size neodymium mag - to hold the Fob, in place - but that would take some Experimenting (to ensure the 'fob-holder mag' didn't 'influence' the Base-sensor, etc..) In all, I'm betting the 'scotch tape' / small beads of low-tack hot melt will be the best 'KISS' solution.. Again, a 'rainy-Sunday homework project'..

I'm sure you likely already 'extrapolated this', but.. For the benefit of others that might-not / clarity, yeah - in This config / concept-shift, you Need a way to 'low-tack stick it to the side' - the magnet is there for signal-field Only..

.03
jd
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Old 07-06-2020, 03:48 PM
SkunkWerX SkunkWerX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoJ_51 View Post
Actually, I'm glad you posted that, as my 2am brain wasn't recalling an important point I should have been clearer about in the first post, derp..

The purpose of the fob's magnet Isn't to 'stick it to the Base' - it's there soley to provide the magnetic-field for the Hall-sensor, so..

..Indeed, something 'lightweight hold' (scotch tape, or perhaps 2 beads of 'low tack' hot glue, etc..) is Needed in this 'non-window / door setup concept', to provide that 'hold it in place' (which is Usually accomplished via the adhesive pad on the rear of the fob (and Base, also..)

..Alternatively, if the 'Base-post' / side is, say, a steel plate, etc, I suppose the fob might 'adhere' to that, and keep it aligned to the Base sensor-point (or, if-say, in a Wood-post / tree, etc, you could 'embed' a small button-size neodymium mag - to hold the Fob, in place - but that would take some Experimenting (to ensure the 'fob-holder mag' didn't 'influence' the Base-sensor, etc..) In all, I'm betting the 'scotch tape' / small beads of low-tack hot melt will be the best 'KISS' solution.. Again, a 'rainy-Sunday homework project'..

I'm sure you likely already 'extrapolated this', but.. For the benefit of others that might-not / clarity, yeah - in This config / concept-shift, you Need a way to 'low-tack stick it to the side' - the magnet is there for signal-field Only..

.03
jd
I was thinking Velcro. small strip so the Fob can be ripped off easily, but reset as easily.
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Old 07-06-2020, 04:18 PM
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For many people...bugging out is simply not an option....there are ways to fortify your house and still hide in plain sight.

Homes usually have windows that can be broken out quickly......3M make a 3 mil security film that makes the windows very hard to break.....at the very least....it will give you time to react.

You can pin and lock every single window and sliding door in your house.

Any interior door can be replaced with a hard wood door that can be locked from either direction...at the very least you can turn the lock around.

Obviously things like and alarm and a pair of "ass eating" dogs will help.

Hidden storage is very very important. If you house were broken into.....your cache of what you have might be less detectable.

Like minded neighbors......your most valuable asset along with community watch programs.

Adequate security lighting and wi-fi enabled cameras on an independent hidden wi-fi network.

Pin your garage doors.

Anything in your garbage that indicates you are prepped needs to be shredded...that includes amazon packing slips and the like.

Plant bushes with hard long thorns for hedges and around windows.

Have communications to call for help if your phone and cable is down.

Have an escape route out of your house.

In the end there is not ultimate protection......if a mob wants in bad enough that will figure out a way or burn you out. That being said.....mobs are generally "low effort" people.

HK
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Old 07-06-2020, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWerX View Post
I was thinking Velcro. ..
Sure, just so-long as it still allows good, close contact with the 'sensor point' on the side of the Base unit (and, the velcro adhesive holds-up thru heat, if used for Outdoors etc..) ..otherwise.. WeeeOoooo-WeeeOoooo-WeeeOoooo!!

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jd
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Old 07-06-2020, 07:11 PM
hardcalibres hardcalibres is offline
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The clothes pin switch can be adapted to many types of alarm.

Here is a discussion of a clothes pin switch used to indicate if mail deliveries have been dropped at your mail box.

https://www.instructables.com/id/Mailbox-Signal-System/

It has some good pictures of how the switch is made and used.

The friction of the insulating tab separating the contacts/jaws when set, will determine the sensitivity/tension required to trigger the switch. If you use a smooth plastic tab, the tension to trigger will be low and if you use a tab with rough surface (like sanding cloth) then the tension to trigger will be high.

If you use stainless wire in the contacts, the switch can be quite weather resistant.
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Old 08-09-2020, 07:32 PM
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There are some decent fortifications you can make that will make it harder for people to break it, without necessarily "showing your hand"... as others have mentioned, you can set up some "agricultural defense" to funnel people through bottlenecks, as well as set up some hidden security cameras. I've always liked the ideas of buying a *ton* of fake security cameras, and leaving them on all the neighbors door steps in the middle of the night. The hope being that if everyone in the neighborhood has fake cameras, everyone will think that all my cameras are fake as well (especially if I put up the same brand fake cameras as they do, while hiding my real cameras), which will hopefully also work as "neighborhood camouflage", so that in the event SHTF, my house won't look any more "worth protecting" than my neighbors due to visible security cameras (real or otherwise), and the perceived presence of cameras may help reduce threats during non-SHTF times, since it will hopefully make the whole neighborhood look less appealing than the next one over.

Another big one that's somewhat "parallel" to the notion of this thread, is making it hard to break in, but in ways that aren't obvious from the outside... obviously that won't deter people from *trying* to break in while doing blanket looting... but it will give you extra time to react, as well as provide some extra peace of mind during non-SHTF life. Things like "security screens" can go up outside your windows, and don't look obvious like bars (though you can also put up some "decorative" bars, if you want to make your house look slightly more difficult than your neighbors). Also, you can get the clear adhesive sheets that will prevent your windows from fully breaking out (basically it just holds the broken window together).
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Old 08-09-2020, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelfilter View Post
Ahh, scotch tape or eye hooks! As, I honestly couldnít think on how those contact magnets would reasonably hold a length of line & such.

Dunno, maybe they can?

Anyhow, now that youíve given a couple ways to set them up, see how they could help. Thanks!
Hall effect sensors consume power. Easier to use a speaker/ headphone jack or a loop switch. Then a sonalert and battery. No current draw until tripped. You can tension the line using a Extension spring, such that when the string Stretches, the remaining trip wire is attached to the loop switch or to the pin in a headphone jack.
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:11 PM
John Matherson John Matherson is offline
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I'll be adding raised L shaped bed cinder block planters at certain corners of my house. The outside of them will have Trex for aesthetics . The inside will be rolled with elastrometric roof sealant to hold the cinders together if shot. The interior filled with soil at least two feet thick. They'll serve as either interior or exterior hardened positions.

Large planters that can be filled and moved to a position can serve as cover and not look too obvious.
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Old 08-11-2020, 09:27 AM
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I'll be adding raised L shaped bed cinder block planters at certain corners of my house. The outside of them will have Trex for aesthetics . The inside will be rolled with elastrometric roof sealant to hold the cinders together if shot. The interior filled with soil at least two feet thick. They'll serve as either interior or exterior hardened positions.

Large planters that can be filled and moved to a position can serve as cover and not look too obvious.
that's a pretty good idea. low profile, dual use, highly effective.
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Old 08-17-2020, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Dynomike View Post
Also, you can get the clear adhesive sheets that will prevent your windows from fully breaking out (basically it just holds the broken window together).
My wife says "transfer tape" will do the same thing...and costs significantly less than those clear adhesive sheets!
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