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Old 06-03-2020, 09:56 AM
Red Dirt Walker Red Dirt Walker is offline
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With all of the unrest currently in America I am seeing more and more people talking about civil war is here or is coming, but I have a question.

What are the sides? What is the reason?
Here are what I see as some issues that could drive a civil war.

Belief in racism
Belief in Inequality
Political beliefs
Law enforcement issues
Gender differences
Government corruption
Government oppression

Now maybe I'm being naive but most civil wars are about a difference in beliefs or oppression. If you look at this list (and this is a list I through out in seconds so there is likely more) most people would agree with a couple or more that would change the "side" you may need to be on.

I for example am worried about Government Corruption which I believe nearly everyone in America agrees with, so that put me on one team. I also think there is a problem with Government oppression and believe in the Constitution. This divides me from a large chunk of the team I am on, so another team is formed. I also don't adhere much to the Inequality beliefs of many. I think all of the opportunities are there in America. This further divides me from members of my second group, but also aligns me with people from the original group.

Not even touching political beliefs which can divide further.

I guess my point is.....if this is civil war or civil war is coming, who will be fighting who? The left almost weekly turns on someone in their group for something. The right can't seem to agree within it's self on overall positions.

Just feels like if a "fighting" civil war happens it will be small groups with members that float from group to group based upon the day of the week or who is winning at the moment.
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Old 06-03-2020, 09:59 AM
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It boils down to the "have's" and the "have not's". Do you have a stake in the current society and would like status quo? These are gainfully employed, small business owners, retirees, etc. Or would like to burn it all down because you have nothing to lose? This was never about race or police brutality.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:20 AM
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It is about corrupt Democratic politics. They'll burn the country to the ground just to create mayhem to give themselves a shot at the next presidential election. That is what is happening. The more poor desperate people in their collective mind the better, then they can come in a save them after creating all the problems in the first place, and more people fully dependent on government. Pretty sick to watch.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:23 AM
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People in a Minneapolis neighborhood were shot with rubber bullets or pepper balls on their own front porch by NG or MPD. Johnny B has a video up on youtube ,The People vs The Police State.

I don't think we will get back to normal for a while yet.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:26 AM
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It is about corrupt Democratic politics. They'll burn the country to the ground just to create mayhem to give themselves a shot at the next presidential election. That is what is happening. The more poor desperate people I their mind the better, then they can come in a save them after creating all the problems in the first place. Pretty sick to watch.
At this point I don't trust either side at all. I'm on the side of We the People not any State entity or agency.
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:07 PM
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6 Atlanta officers, 2 of which have also been fired, have been charged for breaking the windows of a car and pulling out a couple of black college students before tasing and handcuffing them.
They have until the 5th to turn themselves in. How long do you think they would give you and I to turn ourselves in if we had done the same?
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:13 PM
hoplite59 hoplite59 is offline
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Originally Posted by Red Dirt Walker View Post
With all of the unrest currently in America I am seeing more and more people talking about civil war is here or is coming, but I have a question.

What are the sides? What is the reason?
Here are what I see as some issues that could drive a civil war.

Belief in racism
Belief in Inequality
Political beliefs
Law enforcement issues
Gender differences
Government corruption
Government oppression

Now maybe I'm being naive but most civil wars are about a difference in beliefs or oppression. If you look at this list (and this is a list I through out in seconds so there is likely more) most people would agree with a couple or more that would change the "side" you may need to be on.

I for example am worried about Government Corruption which I believe nearly everyone in America agrees with, so that put me on one team. I also think there is a problem with Government oppression and believe in the Constitution. This divides me from a large chunk of the team I am on, so another team is formed. I also don't adhere much to the Inequality beliefs of many. I think all of the opportunities are there in America. This further divides me from members of my second group, but also aligns me with people from the original group.

Not even touching political beliefs which can divide further.

I guess my point is.....if this is civil war or civil war is coming, who will be fighting who? The left almost weekly turns on someone in their group for something. The right can't seem to agree within it's self on overall positions.

Just feels like if a "fighting" civil war happens it will be small groups with members that float from group to group based upon the day of the week or who is winning at the moment.
We've been in civil war mode the past 12 years since Sotero was foisted on the American citizenry. Its been cold to this point but its going hot quickly. Communities must/will band together to defend its citizens as they did in OR and ID.
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:13 PM
Outpost75 Outpost75 is offline
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On the riots...

Bias warning: I tend to read most of these things through the lens of classical insurrections. Shadow government, zones of liberation, discredit duly constituted authority, expand liberated zones, external financial and logistic support, transient recruiting etc. The specifics change for each war of insurrection, but the principles remain generally the same. Greed motivates more than grievance. Grievance is just the pretty wrapping on the communist package to get useful idiots into the streets “fighting for a better future.”

I've been watching these riot developments closely. Local events here are clearly orchestrated and organized to target upscale businesses and wealthy neighborhoods. Other cities appear to follow a similar general pattern. It’s not folks walking down the street to burn Ferguson, they’re traveling significant distances to loot.

Attacks on police stations are a classic insurgent move. Discredit police and simultaneously move them out of the way. Creates a temporary liberated zone and instills fear to immobilize the weak minded citizens.

If this were a foreign country my analysis would be:

A far left wing insurrection has nominal control of several major cities, including key government offices and institutions. Left wing militias conduct targeted violence to purge opposition and expand control in the liberated zone through physical and psychological means. Analogous to the Former Yugoslav purges to clear out Albanians.

Most likely COA. Consolidate territorial gains and gain concessions from constituted government, I.e. cash to rebuild and repair, purge police and opposition leadership and install insurgent friendly personnel.

Most Dangerous COA. Export violence to disputed territory in suburbs. Attack critical power and energy distribution infrastructure to discredit government and opposition citizens/businesses.

The corona re-opening ties into this. Dem calls for state bail outs are falling on deaf ears. Draconian blue state population and resource control measures are being resisted by normal folks. Dems are mad that their authority isn’t respected. Now the looters come out for a trivial event.

The death of a thug resisting arrest is painted as proximate cause by the race baiters who paint everything as discriminatory. It’s the superficial grievance to get the naive out en mass. But it is largely irrelevant to what’s really going on.

Weapons. Fire is the weapon of choice because it’s easy and cheap to make molitovs. Next steps might see escalation to some form of simple IED. Commercial Explosives and initiators are relatively hard to get in cities, so the devices will be crude and low yield. Incidents of sophisticated IED using commercial grade components is a major indicator.

Near term forecast. This probably burns out in 10 days or so, unless there is another event, like acquittal of one of the involved officers or another in-custody death.

POTUS should not over-react. Let local officials handle things until they ask for federal assistance. Develop the tactical situation and protect critical infrastructure.

Loyal local governments would be wise to begin organizing local authorized self defense forces. LE reserves and neighborhood watch teams are a good start for American culture, with a wink and a nod to “roof Koreans”. Same for fire fighters. This serves the security purpose, and more importantly instills loyalty to govt that encourages lawful self-reliance and respect for fundamental property rights.

That’s the jist of my read right now. It’s just the next phase of Obama's fundamental transformation that was interrupted by Trump.

This has all the earmarks of a classic communist insurgency:
expand when you can, contract when you must, but always agitate.
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:04 PM
hoplite59 hoplite59 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
On the riots...

Bias warning: I tend to read most of these things through the lens of classical insurrections. Shadow government, zones of liberation, discredit duly constituted authority, expand liberated zones, external financial and logistic support, transient recruiting etc. The specifics change for each war of insurrection, but the principles remain generally the same. Greed motivates more than grievance. Grievance is just the pretty wrapping on the communist package to get useful idiots into the streets “fighting for a better future.”

I've been watching these riot developments closely. Local events here are clearly orchestrated and organized to target upscale businesses and wealthy neighborhoods. Other cities appear to follow a similar general pattern. It’s not folks walking down the street to burn Ferguson, they’re traveling significant distances to loot.

Attacks on police stations are a classic insurgent move. Discredit police and simultaneously move them out of the way. Creates a temporary liberated zone and instills fear to immobilize the weak minded citizens.

If this were a foreign country my analysis would be:

A far left wing insurrection has nominal control of several major cities, including key government offices and institutions. Left wing militias conduct targeted violence to purge opposition and expand control in the liberated zone through physical and psychological means. Analogous to the Former Yugoslav purges to clear out Albanians.

Most likely COA. Consolidate territorial gains and gain concessions from constituted government, I.e. cash to rebuild and repair, purge police and opposition leadership and install insurgent friendly personnel.

Most Dangerous COA. Export violence to disputed territory in suburbs. Attack critical power and energy distribution infrastructure to discredit government and opposition citizens/businesses.

The corona re-opening ties into this. Dem calls for state bail outs are falling on deaf ears. Draconian blue state population and resource control measures are being resisted by normal folks. Dems are mad that their authority isn’t respected. Now the looters come out for a trivial event.

The death of a thug resisting arrest is painted as proximate cause by the race baiters who paint everything as discriminatory. It’s the superficial grievance to get the naive out en mass. But it is largely irrelevant to what’s really going on.

Weapons. Fire is the weapon of choice because it’s easy and cheap to make molitovs. Next steps might see escalation to some form of simple IED. Commercial Explosives and initiators are relatively hard to get in cities, so the devices will be crude and low yield. Incidents of sophisticated IED using commercial grade components is a major indicator.

Near term forecast. This probably burns out in 10 days or so, unless there is another event, like acquittal of one of the involved officers or another in-custody death.

POTUS should not over-react. Let local officials handle things until they ask for federal assistance. Develop the tactical situation and protect critical infrastructure.

Loyal local governments would be wise to begin organizing local authorized self defense forces. LE reserves and neighborhood watch teams are a good start for American culture, with a wink and a nod to “roof Koreans”. Same for fire fighters. This serves the security purpose, and more importantly instills loyalty to govt that encourages lawful self-reliance and respect for fundamental property rights.

That’s the jist of my read right now. It’s just the next phase of Obama's fundamental transformation that was interrupted by Trump.

This has all the earmarks of a classic communist insurgency:
expand when you can, contract when you must, but always agitate.

I've been calling this an Insurgency for the past few years and some on these boards have sneered at that assertion.
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:12 PM
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If this escalates into what some refer to as civil war,I think it will be a "war" fought on many sides with no defining lines.

Just my thoughts, it could be any and all combinations of a race war,gang wars fighting over territory, poverty against working class,working class against poverty, opportunist looking to kill and steal from anything. This would be a total chaos situation that the government would possibly take sides against all opposing conflicts, making themselves targets. No doubt there would be separations of governing bodies.

This has been my concern since childhood,therefore why I prep.

So many variables could happen in this situation it's unpredictable. Then add the current crisis,food shortages, disruption in supply,natural disasters,failing economies,etc. If the current crisis doesn't trigger catastrophe,maybe the next one will. Who knows. Again,just my personal thoughts and opinions.

Stay safe.


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Old 06-03-2020, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dirt Walker View Post
With all of the unrest currently in America I am seeing more and more people talking about civil war is here or is coming, but I have a question.

What are the sides? What is the reason?
Here are what I see as some issues that could drive a civil war.

Belief in racism
Belief in Inequality
Political beliefs
Law enforcement issues
Gender differences
Government corruption
Government oppression

Now maybe I'm being naive but most civil wars are about a difference in beliefs or oppression. If you look at this list (and this is a list I through out in seconds so there is likely more) most people would agree with a couple or more that would change the "side" you may need to be on.

I for example am worried about Government Corruption which I believe nearly everyone in America agrees with, so that put me on one team. I also think there is a problem with Government oppression and believe in the Constitution. This divides me from a large chunk of the team I am on, so another team is formed. I also don't adhere much to the Inequality beliefs of many. I think all of the opportunities are there in America. This further divides me from members of my second group, but also aligns me with people from the original group.

Not even touching political beliefs which can divide further.

I guess my point is.....if this is civil war or civil war is coming, who will be fighting who? The left almost weekly turns on someone in their group for something. The right can't seem to agree within it's self on overall positions.

Just feels like if a "fighting" civil war happens it will be small groups with members that float from group to group based upon the day of the week or who is winning at the moment.
The issue is that you are probably going to have to give something to get something.

So you say hate government corruption. But if say the Black Panthers are the biggest dog in in that fight. You may have to put up with a bunch of guys you don't agree with to get the job done.
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:43 PM
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Otherwise if you could have a terrorist war as well. Think IRA. which considering the uneven fight anybody is going to have with one of the world's largest military. Is probably a lot more likely.


And then you get a whole different set of societal hurdles.
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
6 Atlanta officers, 2 of which have also been fired, have been charged for breaking the windows of a car and pulling out a couple of black college students before tasing and handcuffing them.
They have until the 5th to turn themselves in. How long do you think they would give you and I to turn ourselves in if we had done the same?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe.../#40c252892f91

When the laws do not apply to those who make them or enforce them, you are not being led, you are being RULED.
I just found out apparently police are basically protected from civil suits as well .

A federal level clean up wouldn't be a bad thing at this point.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
6 Atlanta officers, 2 of which have also been fired, have been charged for breaking the windows of a car and pulling out a couple of black college students before tasing and handcuffing them.
They have until the 5th to turn themselves in. How long do you think they would give you and I to turn ourselves in if we had done the same?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe.../#40c252892f91

When the laws do not apply to those who make them or enforce them, you are not being led, you are being RULED.
I keep saying we have been Ruled not lead or represented for a long time. People stick pick a party and believe it is different.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
I just found out apparently police are basically protected from civil suits as well .

A federal level clean up wouldn't be a bad thing at this point.
The SCOUS has a case this year on Qualified Immunity. If they hear it and rule the right way, we might see some decrease in QI.

I wouldn't hold my breath though. TPTB work pretty hard to protect TPTB.

I didn't used to think that we would ever see a second civil war. But I'm not so sure now.
I think the divide in beliefs systems is being manipulated by powerful people with bad agendas (Soros, NWO types, etc...) And generally from the Left.

Basically, Conservatives/Republicans, i.e. 'normal' people, just want to live their lives and be left alone. Less gov't, less BS.
But the Left, they want intrusive gov't, they want to control what people do, what they say, even what they think.

These are fundamentally incompatible. The way we have worked it out so far is that people generally silo in States that align with their systems. Libs in what we call the Blue states, more conservative folks in the Red states. Of course there's overlap and mixture, but in general it works that way.

The issue is that, while Right leaning people are happy to let the Left do what they want as long as it doesn't impact them, the Left isn't happy unless they're controlling everything. Thus Left leaning groups pushing to break things down so they can build it back to their liking.

I'm not going to let that happen, nor are many people who feel as I do. I think the Right is slow to anger, slow to act. But when we do, it'll be decisive, and I do have concerns that the pendulum might swing too far.
Not that I'm totally against Pinochet style helicopter rides for many of the evil Libtards on the Left, I just don't think it's a healthy way to get us back to normalcy so should probably be avoided.

I just don't know if it can be at this point.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good beer View Post
People in a Minneapolis neighborhood were shot with rubber bullets or pepper balls on their own front porch by NG or MPD. Johnny B has a video up on youtube ,The People vs The Police State.

I don't think we will get back to normal for a while yet.
So you align yourself with the rioters and antifa idiots then?
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:18 AM
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I've been calling this an Insurgency for the past few years and some on these boards have sneered at that assertion.
Would you care for a cookie?
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:09 AM
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As with most civil conflicts.... the average person will be forced into one camp or the other out of necessity. Like joining a gang to survive prison

A year after the first shots are fired, there are few true believers left.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:13 AM
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There is going to be more than one side in the next civil war.

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Old 06-04-2020, 02:44 AM
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So you align yourself with the rioters and antifa idiots then?
Why do you people act like asses?


Watch the ****ing video ,the people were on their own ****ing PORCH!

*******!

You must be a damn nazi if you think the cops have a right to tell people on their own to go inside and the fire paintballs at them!

What the hell is wrong with you stupid crayon eater?
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