Should I Pull Money out of My Home? - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Financial Forum Economics and Precious Metals

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2020, 12:14 PM
Mogli's Avatar
Mogli Mogli is online now
Daughter OfThe Revolution
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Ca. Land of the lost.
Posts: 31,489
Thanks: 110,540
Thanked 110,823 Times in 27,252 Posts
Default Should I Pull Money out of My Home?



Advertise Here

Hi Everyone, I’m have a dilemma and would value your insights. My goal has always been to be debt free and I’m almost there having paid off debt with the exception of a tiny mortgage on my home.

I feel like we’ve had a paradigm shift with the national debt, continues QE to infinity, unimaginable unemployment of which many jobs are not coming back, continued assault on small business while promoting large corporations, and the like. I believe we likely are headed for a Venezuela type collapse. I’m worried about a worst case scenario situation.

I’m located in the SF North Bay Area. 90 miles from SF but still with a tremendous Collectivist mindset.

I’m pondering pulling money out so if things continue to degenerate I have a way out. This money would be earmarked for a BOL. I believe real estate values may crash and pulling money out later may be very difficult.

The new loan would be 1% lower than my current interest rate. So that helps especially if we get into hyperinflation later down the road. Or lending may freeze up.

I really see communism taking firm hold in California. The 2nd Amendment is under extreme attack and I believe confiscation is supported by the majority. There’s talk of forced vaccinations and other clearly Authoritarian measures.

I feel like I need to secure a way out and if our situation continues to degenerate at these accelerated rates I may lose this opportunity. I understand this is paranoid thinking but I have a seriously handicapped daughter and I need to be looking at this with my eyes wide open. I can’t afford rose colored glasses with this.

Finally, the division and hostility has increased to a critical level. I see posts on Facebook daily calling for conservatives, or anyone protesting this level of personal liberty assaults, to be gotten rid of. Truly frightening. I’ll leave you this video which clearly states what I’m talking about. Notice the audience doesn’t laugh as if she’s joking or go, “Huh???”, as if they’re shocked. This narrative is something they’re used to hearing. Let that sink in. It’s ‘normal’ discourse to this audience! Acceptable!!!

So my question is, what are the pros and cons to pulling money out of my house? Should I do it? Would you do it?


__________________
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Mogli For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 12:19 PM
charliemeyer007's Avatar
charliemeyer007 charliemeyer007 is offline
reluctant sinner
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rent Free in your head
Posts: 15,653
Thanks: 34
Thanked 29,015 Times in 10,169 Posts
Default

During the great depression people that only owed a little on the farm lost it if they couldn't pay it off. People that owed lots usually got to stay because the banks figured they would take care of the place.

Owe all you can owe or pay it off. You still need to be able to pay the taxes or they take it away after a while.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to charliemeyer007 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 12:28 PM
Rural Buckeye Guy Rural Buckeye Guy is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: rural ohio
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 40
Thanked 7,339 Times in 2,587 Posts
Default

You describe a pretty severe situation potentially, so digging in deeper with another mortgage vs selling and going debt free seems antithetical to your situation. If you are correct in your predictions, you will have to restart somewhere else in any case, the only variable being the timespan between now and then.

So, liquify your big ticket items now, at a favorabled amount. I kept just enough in stocks to hold them open so tbat I can grt back in when a crash sputters out. Debt free is your best option in your scenerio. If you want to stay, then double down on thr mortgage for the reasons above. Regardless, your choice should only be determined by your goals, not our opinions! Your first impression is slways the most accurate.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Rural Buckeye Guy For This Useful Post:
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-21-2020, 12:33 PM
Mathetes Mathetes is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 32
Thanks: 74
Thanked 32 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Do not rush to judge a new situation stay calm and think things thru again and again, America has been they these kind of situations before and declinism appears every time we go through a crisis yet we made it past every time.
If you are almost done with the debt finish it off and then all you have is some taxes that can be put off a while if needed, but most of all you have a place that you own, things will not deteriorate fast save your money and if they are getting worse you can still put a downpayment and buy a BOL from a distressed buyer, plenty of homes with acreage all over this vast country.
Just remember if you had sold in haste during the Great Depression then 10 years later that asset would be higher than ever, real estate is a long term hold, treat it as such and you will be safer in the long run, including having a debt free home to give to your children, the greatest gift of all for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mathetes For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 01:57 PM
Kansas Terri Kansas Terri is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,102
Thanks: 9,118
Thanked 14,552 Times in 5,478 Posts
Default

When we left California we went to a job. It did make life very much easier.

It took us a year to sell our house the next time we moved, but again we went to a job. Having a paycheck makes things a lot easier. And, Every other weekend I drove 3 hours each way to care for it and to be seen on the site.

I think that whether or not you take money out of your house needs to be part of a larger plan, part of which will involve saying where will you go and what will you do for a living? Will you sell the Ca house or rent it out? Will you have an agency help run your (possible) rental or not? What areas can give good medical care for your daughter?
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Kansas Terri For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 02:36 PM
sierra skier's Avatar
sierra skier sierra skier is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,418
Thanks: 25,409
Thanked 29,131 Times in 7,748 Posts
Default

If you decide to refinance or take out a credit line against your house will you qualify for enough to make it worth your while?
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sierra skier For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 02:42 PM
roseman roseman is online now
NRA Life 1971
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: CT
Posts: 7,848
Thanks: 9,665
Thanked 14,463 Times in 6,225 Posts
Default

I like having no debt but having none and having little or no liquid assets is not the best plan either.
One's amount would vary via individual circumstance but those I know like to keep 10-25 thousand in cash not counting precious metals.
Liquidity in these times, or any times really, is a prudent plan as it facilitates options.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to roseman For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 03:15 PM
Mogli's Avatar
Mogli Mogli is online now
Daughter OfThe Revolution
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Ca. Land of the lost.
Posts: 31,489
Thanks: 110,540
Thanked 110,823 Times in 27,252 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sierra skier View Post
If you decide to refinance or take out a credit line against your house will you qualify for enough to make it worth your while?
Yes. For $150k plus my current $48k mortgage the p & I payment is $896 monthly. That would still put me at only a 40% loan to value ratio. I wouldn’t pull anymore than the $150k out. Because that keeps the loan manageable even if things get as bad as I think they can. If they get worse than that then it likely is a lost cause anyway.

Keep in mind the 2nd A attack’s and our governor is releasing, right Now, violent criminals from the prisons. Also, the city just south of me has one of the worst homeless problems nation wide! While I live in a little town, they have been bussing homeless up here. We’re the last town north in the county. Our town square now has a daily **** duty clean up. They get off the busses and just pee right at the town hall. You cannot go to the River Park or hike the river trails. They’ve been overcome with homeless people. What was recently a small conservative ‘raise the children in’ has become a place where I have to keep everything locked. While I don’t go about my business in fear, yet, I really see it as being unsustainable.

Not long ago we were one of America’s 10 most desirable small towns!!!

As you know, I’m also considering just selling the house and leaving. But there are downfalls to that too.

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/9...s-most-visible

Quote:
In Sonoma County, there were an estimated 3,000 homeless people at the beginning of the year. The report found that 65% of the county’s homeless are unsheltered, ranking fourth behind Santa Clara, Solano and Alameda counties in the Bay Area. San Francisco has 63% of its homeless people living unsheltered, ranking No. 5 in the region.
I think the best thing for me right now is to take a week off from the news
__________________
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Mogli For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 03:17 PM
Lilychan Lilychan is offline
Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 467
Thanks: 14
Thanked 554 Times in 234 Posts
Default

Trying to live debt free is good general advice because it can keep you out of a lot of trouble. That said, debt isn't necessarily a bad thing when you know what you are doing and taking out loans and such can really advance your goals.

I think you worries are a bit extreme, but having cash on hand is a good thing. In fact, even if you have no concerns of a collapse, you should still have some cash on hand. If possible you should always have some cash for emergencies and stuff. Just imagine you get into a car accident or something and you can't work. It doesn't have to be the entire country collapsing, for you to need some cash on hand.

Also, having cash on hand means you are more flexible with what you can do. So for example, in your case flee the country if you want to. Though it could also be an investment opportunity or something that you will miss out on if you don't have cash on hand. Like if gold fell to $800 and you wanted to buy a bunch of it up. Who knows, if you have money on hand you can do stuff, and if you don't then you can't. In this case you think property values might crash, so there might be opportunities to buy properties are very low prices if you have cash on hand. So it might be worth it for that.

Also if you are worried of high inflation, and low property value, then money invested in a home is probably not good. If there is inflation, any money tied up in your home is money lost, unless the value of the home goes up more than the inflation devalued the money. A lot of the time, in a lot of places the value of homes are always raising so often times they are considered good investments. Even if there is some inflation, the increase value in the home will overcome that. However, that really depends on where you are. You really need to judge that for yourself. You clearly seem to think inflation may go up, but you need to decide if you think housing prices will go up in your area or not.

Though one thing you can consider, is that if housing values go up, you don't necessarily lose just because you took money out, since you can still sell the house for more than you owe and still make profit. You do lose however, if you completely pay off a house and the value goes down. Then again, you only lose when you sell the house as well. So if you pay off the house and the value goes down, and you wait long enough, the value will likely go back up. As long as you wait until the value is positive, you will profit.

Another thing to consider, is that if you take out all the money, and there isn't a crash, you could still invest the money into something else. The rates are really going to matter here. If you are paying 2% interest on your home but you can gain 5% in some investment, then you are better off cashing out on your home and investing in that investment, then using the profit to pay the loan since you will come out ahead. On the other hand if the economy goes to ****, and rates are insanely low, maybe it wont be worth it. If you are paying 5% on your home and the best investment you can get is a 2% return, then paying off the home first will save you more money.

If we look at things realistically, taking the cash out so you have it on hand, isn't likely to hurt you very much, even if your thoughts are paranoid. Long term, if nothing happens, you don't want to sit on the money forever. If you take the money out and sit on the money, then you will lose money. However, that is a long term thing. If you take the money out and keep it on hand for a year or two to see how things play out, and if nothing happens you invest it into something with rates higher than your interest payments, you will still come out just fine. If your worries do come true, then it could really save you.

So here is my opinion. As long as you have a plan B, some where to put the money to make money, in case things work out and there is no collapse, then taking the money out is probably going to be just fine. It is really all about the math. Do the math based on how much you owe and the rates you are paying, and compare it to how much you could make investing the money else where. Don't forget to factor things in like fees(such as paying closing costs for refinancing), and make sure whatever you new house payments are, are affordable even if you might become unemployed for some time(because it would really suck if you pull money out, put the money some where then miss a house payment and lose the house). If the math adds up in your favor, and it makes you more comfortable, then go for it.

If the math doesn't add up, then it is a much harder decision and you will have to put serious thought into if you want to risk losing a money just for a temporary safety net. It still might be worth it, if what you think might happen, does happen, but you are entering a far more risky situation. I wouldn't at all feel comfortable advising someone to do something, where they will lose money if there is no collapse. If the math works out, and it fits with your plans though, then I don't see any problems.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Lilychan For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 03:21 PM
Mogli's Avatar
Mogli Mogli is online now
Daughter OfThe Revolution
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Ca. Land of the lost.
Posts: 31,489
Thanks: 110,540
Thanked 110,823 Times in 27,252 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Terri View Post
When we left California we went to a job. It did make life very much easier.

It took us a year to sell our house the next time we moved, but again we went to a job. Having a paycheck makes things a lot easier. And, Every other weekend I drove 3 hours each way to care for it and to be seen on the site.

I think that whether or not you take money out of your house needs to be part of a larger plan, part of which will involve saying where will you go and what will you do for a living? Will you sell the Ca house or rent it out? Will you have an agency help run your (possible) rental or not? What areas can give good medical care for your daughter?
The problem is making long term plans when I’m in a fluid situation. Not knowing how bad things can get. My only plan is to have a homestead, as self sustaining as possible, and to be in a safe, stable place to do it. I have the homestead, well on it’s way and productive! The problem is the location which I think has potential to become very unstable. Medical facilities are 30 miles away. Kaiser. We’ve been with them 33 years.
__________________
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Mogli For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 03:50 PM
Hick Industries's Avatar
Hick Industries Hick Industries is online now
Live Secret, Live Happy
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern Oklahoma
Posts: 15,207
Thanks: 18,710
Thanked 38,191 Times in 10,558 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogli View Post
Hi Everyone, I’m have a dilemma and would value your insights. My goal has always been to be debt free and I’m almost there having paid off debt with the exception of a tiny mortgage on my home.

I feel like we’ve had a paradigm shift with the national debt, continues QE to infinity, unimaginable unemployment of which many jobs are not coming back, continued assault on small business while promoting large corporations, and the like. I believe we likely are headed for a Venezuela type collapse. I’m worried about a worst case scenario situation.

I’m located in the SF North Bay Area. 90 miles from SF but still with a tremendous Collectivist mindset.

I’m pondering pulling money out so if things continue to degenerate I have a way out. This money would be earmarked for a BOL. I believe real estate values may crash and pulling money out later may be very difficult.

The new loan would be 1% lower than my current interest rate. So that helps especially if we get into hyperinflation later down the road. Or lending may freeze up.

I really see communism taking firm hold in California. The 2nd Amendment is under extreme attack and I believe confiscation is supported by the majority. There’s talk of forced vaccinations and other clearly Authoritarian measures.

I feel like I need to secure a way out and if our situation continues to degenerate at these accelerated rates I may lose this opportunity. I understand this is paranoid thinking but I have a seriously handicapped daughter and I need to be looking at this with my eyes wide open. I can’t afford rose colored glasses with this.

Finally, the division and hostility has increased to a critical level. I see posts on Facebook daily calling for conservatives, or anyone protesting this level of personal liberty assaults, to be gotten rid of. Truly frightening. I’ll leave you this video which clearly states what I’m talking about. Notice the audience doesn’t laugh as if she’s joking or go, “Huh???”, as if they’re shocked. This narrative is something they’re used to hearing. Let that sink in. It’s ‘normal’ discourse to this audience! Acceptable!!!

So my question is, what are the pros and cons to pulling money out of my house? Should I do it? Would you do it?
Leave. Seriously girl I would sell out, pack up, and get the HELL OUT OF DODGE!
In fact, I did exactly that a few yrs back. While life here is tough, at least no one is planning to kill me.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Hick Industries For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 04:39 PM
dmas dmas is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,231
Thanks: 1,524
Thanked 4,641 Times in 2,509 Posts
Default

During the great depression of the 30s they did not have 20-30 year amortized mortgages covering most of the value of property. Those modern type mortgages were the solution. Back before mortgages were shorter termed with a balloon component.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dmas For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 05:27 PM
sierra skier's Avatar
sierra skier sierra skier is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,418
Thanks: 25,409
Thanked 29,131 Times in 7,748 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogli View Post
Keep in mind the 2nd A attack’s and our governor is releasing, right Now, violent criminals from the prisons. Also, the city just south of me has one of the worst homeless problems nation wide! While I live in a little town, they have been bussing homeless up here. We’re the last town north in the county. Our town square now has a daily **** duty clean up. They get off the busses and just pee right at the town hall. You cannot go to the River Park or hike the river trails. They’ve been overcome with homeless people. What was recently a small conservative ‘raise the children in’ has become a place where I have to keep everything locked. While I don’t go about my business in fear, yet, I really see it as being unsustainable.

Not long ago we were one of America’s 10 most desirable small towns!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
Leave. Seriously girl I would sell out, pack up, and get the HELL OUT OF DODGE!
In fact, I did exactly that a few yrs back. While life here is tough, at least no one is planning to kill me.
Both Hick and I moved around the same time span and lived a little over 125 miles apart. I loved the geographical area I lived and would still be there if it wasn't for California politics, illegals, high taxes and all of the associated issues that I no longer cared to try and ignore.

We have both been over this issue before and you know my feelings in regards to your staying. With the increased issues of power grid down during high winds, wild fire, homeless, sanctuary cities and state, paying taxes to support illegals before we take care of veterans, etc., etc. I am with Hick Industries that it is time to pack up and find a friendlier location to set up shop.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to sierra skier For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 05:27 PM
BrianWorf BrianWorf is offline
Business Owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arlington, Texas
Age: 53
Posts: 1,986
Thanks: 11,528
Thanked 3,345 Times in 1,308 Posts
Default

I agree totally with Hick. Sell now, if you can, and get the most you can before the bottom drops out. Get something similar in size in a more 2A-friendly red state, such as OK, TX, WY, etc and pay it off. Keep an account just for paying taxes and insurance from. That's what I am doing for my paid-off house. Eventually, I want my trust to have enough money to pay taxes and insurance from interest. Getting there.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to BrianWorf For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 05:34 PM
Kansas Terri Kansas Terri is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,102
Thanks: 9,118
Thanked 14,552 Times in 5,478 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogli View Post
The problem is making long term plans when I’m in a fluid situation. Not knowing how bad things can get. My only plan is to have a homestead, as self sustaining as possible, and to be in a safe, stable place to do it. I have the homestead, well on it’s way and productive! The problem is the location which I think has potential to become very unstable. Medical facilities are 30 miles away. Kaiser. We’ve been with them 33 years.
Other than the unrest, is there a situation where you would WANT to leave?

I grew up in San Jose, and then we lived for a while a little outside of LA. I did not WANT to leave Ca, but my husband did because the job opportunities were better somewhere else. And, I also seriously dreamed of owning land, and Ca prices make that very hard.

So, DH sent his resume out, and we moved to Iowa and later to KAnsas.

There was a real culture shock involved, to be honest with you. If I said the wrong thing folks would decide that I was a tax-and-spend Californian, though I wasn't. Nobody cares, now, as I have been here for a while and my accent has gone
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kansas Terri For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 06:43 PM
Mule Skinner Mule Skinner is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,110
Thanks: 2,146
Thanked 3,871 Times in 1,821 Posts
Default

Mogli - It reads like you're not happy with your city/town. Things are getting
dangerous there and ugly. Since house prices tend to be higher in California
than elsewhere, it seems you could sell out and buy cheaper in another
place. You could own the new place outright while still having some cash
left over.

Of course, I don't know how practical that is for you. Employment will
be a factor if you're not retired - and right now unemployment is very
high.

My crystal ball is cloudy on hyperinflation; but cash is not the place
to be if it occurs. In an inflation scenario cash loses value while
"things" do not. Whatever house you might own would still have
utility value if there is high inflation.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mule Skinner For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 06:58 PM
Mule Skinner Mule Skinner is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,110
Thanks: 2,146
Thanked 3,871 Times in 1,821 Posts
Default

Something to consider relative to hyperinflation.
[ My crystal ball is downright inky on this one~! ]
Let's say the future $1.00 becomes equal to today's one cent.
Would the bank still accept $800 for your mortgage payment?
OR
Would there be some sort of indexing law shifting that payment
to $80,000 monthly?

Here is an old song from way way back:

Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mule Skinner For This Useful Post:
Old 05-21-2020, 07:23 PM
film495 film495 is offline
Hiker
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 607
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,230 Times in 412 Posts
Default

you can get a HOLOC, and if you don't draw from it - you pay nothing, but it is there for 3 years if you want it. I set one up just to have a large surplus of funds available to me, even though I really plan to never touch it - unless, well - things keep going down hill for a long long time. I could be anywhere in the world and access those funds if need be.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to film495 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-22-2020, 11:38 AM
Jdog67's Avatar
Jdog67 Jdog67 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tampa Bay area, Florida
Posts: 3,992
Thanks: 833
Thanked 16,024 Times in 3,206 Posts
Default

I'd sell completely and move out of California while you can. Your proceeds from the sale should be enough for you to own a homestead free and clear, and then some.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Jdog67 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-22-2020, 12:06 PM
NCalHippie's Avatar
NCalHippie NCalHippie is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 15,124
Thanks: 33,248
Thanked 28,076 Times in 10,508 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdog67 View Post
I'd sell completely and move out of California while you can. Your proceeds from the sale should be enough for you to own a homestead free and clear, and then some.
Biggest problem I can see with that is if you sell your home in CA and buy out of State, you have to pay State capital gains taxes. Basically an exit tax.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NCalHippie For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net