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Old 01-03-2020, 12:47 PM
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HappyinID HappyinID is offline
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Originally Posted by peecmkr45 View Post
You seem convinced that these things happen in a vacuum and that everyone will turn into a complete savage so I won't try to change your mind.
The probable situation is that there will be people that will take great satisfaction in hunting, torturing and killing the type of predators you describe.
The only reason some people don't have killing predatory violent criminals as a past time now is the consequences they would face. You overlook that the law is restraining people from summarily killing violent criminals now.
You are correct, but the law also restrains the much higher percentage of predators that exist with us, but don't currently act out.

As another ex-cop that worked in neighborhoods that became war zones over relatively insignificant things, I also have a very dark view on what could happen if there ever was a true shtf.... when there is no 911.

You are correct that good people would try and respond to the predators, but the predators would also ramp up their level of violence in response. Those good people would then likely begin offering violence to anyone they even thought were possible predators. Out of fear and frankly, necessity. When you know your family's lives depend on you not making a mistake, you won't be taking any chances. Especially when you know there will be no recrimination for your decision. You will err on the side of caution. Other good people, that you don't know are good, may end up at the wrong place at the wrong time, and vice versa.

The kumbaya, peace and love community many seem to imagine, will be non existent.

Cops who've worked during riots and around particularly violent gangs, and even more so, service members who've seen the results of ethnic or religious cleansing, have at least an inkling of what things could be like. But with no 911 or QRF coming, it's going to be worse than even many of them are prepared for. Lets hope we never see it.


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Old 01-10-2020, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
I WOULD say you lived in either West Texas or Oklahoma...
You tar with a broad brush.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
DEPENDING on where you are as in urban, suburbs, rural or inner city.. the rules of behavior will all be different.



the one absolute rule you can live by is...

ALL the rules will be different for each area.
and in some areas, murder, rape, and anything else barbaric not only goes but will be the norm.
Like most muslum countries.

Most muslim countries, many third world countries.

Been there, done that...... Be Prepared !
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:22 PM
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I WAS talking to an old cop buddy of mine this past week who fled to the north once his time was done. He is just about 30 miles from the original BIG MAC... but still a troll.

He isn't into buying up supplies and such. He does have a generator and some gas and he probably keeps enough food to get by for him and his wife for a couple of weeks.

I know what he would do if things went south and it became a survival mode situation. He feels that because of the good, nice neighbors and the type of area he is in he wouldn't have trouble getting along because of what he could bring to the table, being experience with dealing with not nice people and a modicum of skill as a shade tree mechanic.

I tried to tell him that up in the northern parts of the world far from the big cities, there are LOTS of folks who wrench, not as a hobby but out of necessity. Also that he is now in a world where not only everyone has guns but also knows how to use them, and his wit and smiling face may not be enough to get by on. So, he says if it gets that bad he doesn't really want to stick around anyway. Which amazed me since I know the guy was in a couple of shootings and came out on top and was very big on surviving the street. Never thought I would hear someone like him just say "I give if it gets too bad."

Just not the mindset you expect from a long time ghetto cop.
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:19 PM
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NW GUY,

I kind of view the "well if it gets that bad i'll just die" as a way to dismiss the need to prepare without being concerned that they'll suffer or have to watch other people endure suffering

easy enough to say when they don't really believe such a thing would happen. and you know they don't really believe, because 3 month's worth of food ain't that expensive
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
I WAS talking to an old cop buddy of mine this past week who fled to the north once his time was done. He is just about 30 miles from the original BIG MAC... but still a troll.

He isn't into buying up supplies and such. He does have a generator and some gas and he probably keeps enough food to get by for him and his wife for a couple of weeks.

I know what he would do if things went south and it became a survival mode situation. He feels that because of the good, nice neighbors and the type of area he is in he wouldn't have trouble getting along because of what he could bring to the table, being experience with dealing with not nice people and a modicum of skill as a shade tree mechanic.

I tried to tell him that up in the northern parts of the world far from the big cities, there are LOTS of folks who wrench, not as a hobby but out of necessity. Also that he is now in a world where not only everyone has guns but also knows how to use them, and his wit and smiling face may not be enough to get by on. So, he says if it gets that bad he doesn't really want to stick around anyway. Which amazed me since I know the guy was in a couple of shootings and came out on top and was very big on surviving the street. Never thought I would hear someone like him just say "I give if it gets too bad."

Just not the mindset you expect from a long time ghetto cop.
It is called Normalcy Bias

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

People with Normalcy Bias cannot comprehend very much changed circumstances/conditions.

People without it cannot understand how anyone could just "hope for the best" (and not prepare for the worst).

There is quite a bit of disagreement among preppers about whether you can talk someone with Normalcy Bias into prepping (and have them sustain that over time). I personally don't think you can. In my view, once you establish someone has Normalcy Bias, you should stop talking about prepping with them - as no good can come of it (you are just breaching OPSEC for no benefit).
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:19 AM
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We have a guy at our station that we had to move from interior FF to scene support because of Negative Panic when he would go on Air he would lock up and suck a 45 minute tank dry in about 8 minutes.
His lights would be on but nobody was home.It was bad to the point, the guys were afraid to buddy up with him. Dropped his status to support and all is well.
Interesting how it works.
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Old 01-12-2020, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Srchdawg View Post
We have a guy at our station that we had to move from interior FF to scene support because of Negative Panic when he would go on Air he would lock up and suck a 45 minute tank dry in about 8 minutes.
His lights would be on but nobody was home.It was bad to the point, the guys were afraid to buddy up with him. Dropped his status to support and all is well.
Interesting how it works.
Had folks like that on the ships, could suck an OBA dry in minutes.
No one wanted them on a hose team.

Last edited by n1d; 01-12-2020 at 12:21 PM.. Reason: pam~n~toe dunt like edits so i do it
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Old 01-12-2020, 01:45 PM
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poor Dusty goes about 360 so he is a liability before he even gets started would hate for him to go down inside it would take a backhoe to get him out.
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:19 PM
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THE THING about the law abiding you have to remember...

They are law abiding because things are against the law. It is not because they never wanted to, just that IF CAUGHT.. the negatives outweigh the positives.

While some folks are died in the wool never do anything wrong because they have this internal thing that says "NO!"
I came across a LOT of folks in copland who ONLY obeyed because they had to.

NOW

remove that punishment certainty when the wheels come off the wagon and you might be surprised at the number of folks who were looking for a chance to be a little.. or a LOT bad.

Think THE PURGE.. lots of law abiding all year, but that one night...
madness.

wouldn't be a lot different if society breaks down. There will be folks who never broke the law coming off the leash.
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Old 01-15-2020, 03:57 PM
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The one's that say; ""well if it gets that bad i'll just die" . These are people that have never truly been without. Without food, without water, without a warm shelter in a blizzard, etc. Withering away is NOT a pleasant experience. I've had some close calls with Mr Death staring at me at I for one know that when true survival and or death is imminent, flight or fight mode for me kicks into high gear.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
THE THING about the law abiding you have to remember...

They are law abiding because things are against the law. It is not because they never wanted to, just that IF CAUGHT.. the negatives outweigh the positives.

While some folks are died in the wool never do anything wrong because they have this internal thing that says "NO!"
I came across a LOT of folks in copland who ONLY obeyed because they had to.

NOW

remove that punishment certainty when the wheels come off the wagon and you might be surprised at the number of folks who were looking for a chance to be a little.. or a LOT bad.

Think THE PURGE.. lots of law abiding all year, but that one night...
madness.

wouldn't be a lot different if society breaks down. There will be folks who never broke the law coming off the leash.
Meh.

Self correcting problem.

By the 3rd year "the purge night" would of been very quiet.


As has been previously stated:
Criminals don't realize how much our system of laws protects THEM.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemeyer007 View Post
What's the difference between MS-13 and the near slave labor used to make iPhones. We have un-ethical people in charge now. What will George Soreass do when his money no longer buys people.

I suspect that bad people are going to have a hard time when there is no longer a corrupt legal system to keep them alive.
I get your point. However, there's a HUGE difference between the labor in China and MS-13. MS-13 is one of the most brutal organizations known to man. People don't have ANY choice when they fall into their hands. Most if not all of the laborers making iPhones (as if they make no other products and that's the ONLY ONE that has this issue! ) do have a choice as to whether or not they stay with the job.
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Old 04-06-2020, 12:22 AM
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I am what I am. My sense of what is right or wrong has been developed over a long life of trial and error. The morals I live by the have been passed along to my adult children. They have all chosen to buy homes and raise their families right here where they grew up .We hunt, fish, raise gardens, and each has skills to contribute to the betterment of the clan.
The whole family is very self sufficient, and we take care of our own. We would be a cohesive unit, and live life our own way. Morally, not much would change.
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Old 04-06-2020, 08:02 AM
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It always amazes me when people speak of a full on SHTF scenario as if it was just like yesterday with no LEOs. All the "immoral" stuff you are talking about involves some form of available transportation (to get to your drug place and shady lady place)
and that people would have discretionary funds to make the purchase. Your example of Deadwood falls apart because this guys were mining gold.

Think of a full on SHTF being like Drums along the Mohawk (the first movie from the 30-40s) - 50+ percent of people have already died off and more on the way, so that the areas outside the cities are pretty empty. The cities are simply too dangerous to stay in. Also think of Vikings, where everybody, every day, are simply hunting and gathering to stay alive or protecting their meager little hoards to keep them for being taken. On the rare days they are not doing that, they are on patrol or standing watch. Their whole life is like primitive camping out.

Also, where are you going to get your pot/ hard drugs, etc, and how are you going to move them around?

I don't see your scenario as realistic, at least in the long term, but that's just me. If you came to my part of the world doing it, what's left of my neighbors would be your "Welcome Wagon", at least for the first day. There would be no second day.

JMO

WW

shoot straight - stay safe
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Old 04-06-2020, 10:15 AM
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I think the morals/ethics would depend on "when" you were in the timeline of a SHTF scenario. Initially, you'd still likely hold onto your ingrained sense of law and order--things might get better after all. Maybe they won't, but you are still dealing with that cognitive dissonance. Regardless, until you start seeing society come apart at the seams, you will likely stick to what you already know.

This is where one of the earlier points made about predators really comes into play. THOSE people will see opportunity and start acting on it before most other people will realize things have gotten that bad. The predators will be part of what really gets society falling apart. As people witness victimization, they will begin to get scared. I think this will be the first point at which morality is tested. Scared people are dangerous. I can easily see "normal" people getting extremely trigger-happy to protect what is theirs from real--or perceived--threats.

After the fear will come desperation. Desperate for food, water, whatever. Their morality will have been eroded by hunger pangs and fear of death. How much and how little would be up to the person. Some people may kill for food. Others may draw the line at stealing. Either way--circumstance has eroded their better nature.

Once some form of stabilization has occurred, is where people will reassess. This is also where the bulk of the OP's scenario comes into play: what do you do, NOW? Now that the unthinkable has happened and you are still here. I think this is an excellent thought exercise. Particularly if you take into account the things you may have already done to survive to this point. What if you had killed someone who simply wandered too close to your property? At the time, you were ramped up and "better safe than sorry" was the norm. Maybe things are quieter now and you can reflect. How would you deal with that? What if your neighbor was a woman who traded her sex for food--how would you feel/react to that? Would you be focused more on pity or the fact that she is bringing traffic into your neighborhood? How would you resolve that situation?

What I find interesting is that in many posts in this thread, people have drawn a firm line against sexual slavery--which I completely understand, btw. But I am curious about cannibalism. Not necessarily hunting other people, but feeding off those who have died in order to better survive. How do people feel about that?

I would like to think that I would make a rational, reasoned decision when faced with difficult moral conundrums. But honestly, I don't know. I know that the presence of the law has certainly kept me from taking my preferred form of justice a time or two. I know that I can kill and that I would do most anything to save my family. But would I slip into a darkness I couldn't pull myself out of? How far would I let the behavior of those around me, fall? I think we should all ponder these things at greater length--if anything, to mentally prepare for what may come.
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Old 05-01-2020, 10:55 AM
Bryan_Chesley Bryan_Chesley is offline
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Everyone has to do what they can to survive. As long as it isn't directly hiring others idk.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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