DOD directive 5210.56 - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

General Discussion Anything non-survival related - news and information, current events, general chit-chat stuff.

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-25-2019, 09:19 PM
Greyscale's Avatar
Greyscale Greyscale is offline
Úlfhéðnar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 416
Thanks: 191
Thanked 854 Times in 255 Posts
Default DOD directive 5210.56



Advertise Here

"Arming and the Use of Force"

This little gem that almost no one knows about has provisions for soldiers on installations to receive approval to carry a concealed weapon while on post. However, it specifies that approval must come from the Arming authority on the installation.

Pursuing what exactly this means has led me to some interesting results...

1. No one is aware of this policy. At all.

2. No one knows who the arming authorities are, including the Pentagon department which is supposed to be in charge of appointing them. "Maybe the CG?" is a common response.

3. Some (maybe most) bases dont respect LEOSA, with MPs having instructions to arrest anyone with a gun, no matter what documentation they have, even if they're law enforcement.

I find this interesting considering that the army has cited this exact directive as a response to people wondering why soldiers are unable to defend themselves following violence on bases, at recruiting stations, ect.

Just posted this for discussion, and in the hopes someone has more info on it than I've been able to dig up.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Greyscale For This Useful Post:
Old 09-25-2019, 11:02 PM
tedlovesjeeps71's Avatar
tedlovesjeeps71 tedlovesjeeps71 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 16,709
Thanks: 13,726
Thanked 47,026 Times in 13,484 Posts
Default

The military isn’t willing to risk soldiers (or dependents or others) having a firearm on base. Much like the civy world, they prefer only a select few be armed and push the (false) idea that they will be protected.
Perhaps there are some CONs to the argument of allowing soldiers to possess firearms. The only ones I can think of immediately are drunken barracks parties, suicides, and the optics of one being used giving the military a black eye. But it sure seems hypocritical to issue them govt weapons but deny personal ones in possession. Anything that “could” happen can just as easily be done off post.
I remember first hearing about the possibility of allowing possession on post. It was about 2014 and I was stationed in VA. Being that close to DC and MD meant I always had to plan my trips so I wouldn’t run afoul of any legal issues. I knew back then the idea would be shelved and ignored. Still is.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to tedlovesjeeps71 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-26-2019, 04:24 AM
debatedc debatedc is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 25
Thanks: 57
Thanked 50 Times in 19 Posts
Default

It depends on each installation commander. The base where I work allows concealed carry for LEOSA holders, with some building excepted. Individuals with concealed weapon licenses can conceal/carry in their vehicle, but not out of their vehicle.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to debatedc For This Useful Post:
Old 09-26-2019, 08:29 AM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gulf coast and/or Nomadically
Posts: 33,071
Thanks: 32,296
Thanked 73,336 Times in 22,606 Posts
Default

Base commanders discretion.

It's known, but most generals aren't going to take the "risk"
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Nomad, 2nd For This Useful Post:
Old 09-26-2019, 08:44 AM
America's Patriot's Avatar
America's Patriot America's Patriot is offline
LEGAL citizen
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,269
Thanks: 3,002
Thanked 30,189 Times in 9,940 Posts
Default

It's noted in the same manual as the "code red". LOL
Quick reply to this message
Old 10-30-2019, 12:35 AM
leadcounsel's Avatar
leadcounsel leadcounsel is online now
Comic, not your lawyer!
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,368
Thanks: 30,133
Thanked 40,829 Times in 9,443 Posts
Default

I was first aware, generally, back in my Army days over a decade ago that one could seek permission from the installation Commander, CG level. That would go through a very "public" process in which all relevant chains of commands, the Provost Martial, Mayor Cell, etc. would have visibility on the request.

It would likely, almost certainly, be summarily denied.

And then you'd have outted yourself as a gun carrier and draw extra "random" vehicle searches and scrutiny which I most certainly did not want.

So it would have been almost surely a pointless exercise and resulted in drawing extra negative attention.

Further, even in the unlikely event it was granted, it would probably have to have been a "renewed" request with every subsequent change in command at any level which occurred every 1-2 years or more frequently as rotations were very regular.

And, since the UCMJ makes carrying a concealed weapon a crime, it's not entirely clear who has the authority to override that since it's Congressional and Presidential level law. Can the base Commander, CG, etc. over ride that, or would they just be selectively not enforcing the law on a case-by-case basis? And is it reasonable to think they want to open the flood gates because once they grant it for 1, they could likely expect hundreds of applicants. I doubt any CG or leaders, knowing the following headaches of guns on base, storage issues, NDs, and injuries, wants to put their careers on the line. So again likely summarily denied and added scrutiny.

In short, a waste of time.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to leadcounsel For This Useful Post:
Old 10-30-2019, 10:43 AM
Exarmyguy Exarmyguy is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Within view of the Pacific Ocean
Posts: 5,263
Thanks: 6,459
Thanked 11,361 Times in 3,583 Posts
Default

Most of the times when we had weapons on base we had no ammo,ie for drill or non shooting training. I always carried a box of hunting ammo with me. It was a chargeable offence but having them made me feel better. I think it came about from reading stories of when the British army unit was slaughtered when they where on a church parade in Indian . They cut rifle mounts into the church pews after that event.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Exarmyguy For This Useful Post:
Old 10-30-2019, 12:00 PM
charliemeyer007's Avatar
charliemeyer007 charliemeyer007 is online now
reluctant sinner
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rent Free in your head
Posts: 15,657
Thanks: 34
Thanked 29,034 Times in 10,172 Posts
Default

I could keep the ammo for my 700 Varmint Special in 223 Rem. in my locker. The rifle had to be stored in the company's locked arms room with mine and everyone M-16 and the bayonet. It was no big deal to go get it to clean. To take it off post (to get to the rifle range about 30 miles away) required signed orders from the company commander and transport had to be in a private owned vehicle or military no public transportation.

So once I was on CQ and we had an alert. Usually we just sat in our truck for a few hours, someone from NATO would drive by and do a head count and it would be over. However, on this one (they only time I ever saw it happen) they open the back gate and the "strike trucks" drove away.

There was some talk about how to issue ammo from the on post dump. I suggested we have the trucks drive by the dump on the way out of the post and we issue ever truck the 2 wood crated 50 cal ammo cans of 5.56, that they set on the passenger side floor of the deuce and half. It worked slick - just like a John Wayne movie.

I took both my rifles and my M-16. We spent a day on the side of a big wide straight stretch of the autobahn awaiting air transport that never came.

Very exciting times, a real move out alert.

They only times I was issued ammo on guard duty was at the ammo dump (shotgun and 3 rounds of buck) or at headquarters (10 rounds of 5.56) for the M-16. The rest of the time the M-16 was carried with no ammo or no weapon at all except maybe a pick ax handle.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to charliemeyer007 For This Useful Post:
Old 10-30-2019, 12:19 PM
Cornly2's Avatar
Cornly2 Cornly2 is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Guadalupe Co Tx
Posts: 1,524
Thanks: 20,001
Thanked 7,603 Times in 1,378 Posts
Default

If you're a civilian on post and want to carry I can see that. Mainly because your life is likely stable.

But as a soldier I don't see the point. Not that I'm against carry or anything but it's the moving around all the time that makes it pointless.

You're likely gonna PCS to Germany or Korea, deploy to some war or peacekeeping mission God knows where, or be assigned to a base in New York for example. Who knows where you'll wind up.

I have no idea of the laws concerning going to different bases or if you can even bring your guns to these places at all. New York alone sounds like it'd be a pain in the ass to figure out.

When I joined I just left my guns with my parents and one of my brothers. Seemed alot easier than dealing with all of that.

I sure did miss them though.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Cornly2 For This Useful Post:
Old 10-30-2019, 12:19 PM
Explainist Explainist is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,016
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4,381 Times in 1,337 Posts
Default

excess testosterone plus lethal skills lead to a condition known as "testosterroneus"

if you were riding herd on a bunch of raging bulls with raging balls, would you want them armed?
Quick reply to this message
Old 10-30-2019, 01:24 PM
Texas_Man Texas_Man is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 18
Thanks: 1
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Default

I don't think it has anything to do with "on base". Imagine a soldier having a mental breakdown, leaving post with a firearm and then start killing people in the local Walmart. They are making sure it's an impossibility. It would be a PR nightmare.
Quick reply to this message
Old 10-30-2019, 02:49 PM
Cornly2's Avatar
Cornly2 Cornly2 is offline
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Guadalupe Co Tx
Posts: 1,524
Thanks: 20,001
Thanked 7,603 Times in 1,378 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas_Man View Post
I don't think it has anything to do with "on base". Imagine a soldier having a mental breakdown, leaving post with a firearm and then start killing people in the local Walmart. They are making sure it's an impossibility. It would be a PR nightmare.
It has everything to do with "on base". The Army can control what you have or do on a U.S. military installation but they sure as heck can't control your rights like that off post. And certainly not your 2nd Amendment rights. Once off post military folks are subject to laws like everyone else.

Granted the military has rules that apply off post in certain cases like wear/appearance of uniform or when certain bars or hangouts are off-limits.

The military has never said you can't own a firearm. Pretty much everyone I've ever known owns them. They leave them in their off-post homes when they go on base. If they're single and live on base they leave it with family or I think they can store weapons in the arms room.

Also soldiers commit crimes using guns all of the time. It's rarely a PR nightmare.

Lastly the OP clearly stated "soldiers on installations to receive approval to carry a concealed weapon while on post." Both "on installations" and "on post" are synonyms to "on base" in this context.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Cornly2 For This Useful Post:
Old 10-31-2019, 05:47 PM
SeaBeeDaddy's Avatar
SeaBeeDaddy SeaBeeDaddy is online now
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,540
Thanks: 13,904
Thanked 19,890 Times in 5,949 Posts
Default

It would have to be a DOD-wide policy or nothing. No CO is going to go maverick when today every personnel incident gets major scrutiny and media attention that falls directly onto their shoulders.

Some guy or gal accidentally shoots a hole in their barracks room wall etc and your career is down the drain. Maybe a Commander in Chief should implement it. They already take the blame for everything in society.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to SeaBeeDaddy For This Useful Post:
Old 10-31-2019, 07:21 PM
curt mini14 curt mini14 is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: nth az
Posts: 378
Thanks: 1,012
Thanked 803 Times in 253 Posts
Default

irony teach me how to shoot and care for a gun and then not trust me to carry one.then in battle if i kill the enemy with a gun i go to jail.really screams come join the forces.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to curt mini14 For This Useful Post:
Old 10-31-2019, 08:59 PM
Old fart's Avatar
Old fart Old fart is offline
Isaiah 41:10, Acts 5:29
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Land of 40,000 mosquito hatcheries
Posts: 5,539
Thanks: 28,220
Thanked 9,804 Times in 3,600 Posts
Default

Don't know how it is now, but it used to be if you had weapons, the Army would move them with your household goods, or allow them in a DITY move. Had to list make, model, and S/N on inventory. No ammo would be shipped/allowed to be moved, though.

MPs were very accommodating for temp storage, or we could use the unit arms room. All personal weapons stored in MP or unit arms room had a weapons card, so paperwork was minimal

Once upon a time, the crime/gang/rape problem on a particular installation was so bad, the installation Commander decreed that female solders couldn't be alone outside after dark/8 p.m., whichever came first

The policy didn't last long... within 24 hours there was a huge pile of IG and EO complaints from the female soldiers. Some also came from male soldiers after they found out female solders had been removed from some duty rosters to comply with the order.

Another fine GOGI
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Old fart For This Useful Post:
Old 11-01-2019, 09:39 PM
Cracked Cranium Cracked Cranium is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: MIDLANT
Posts: 84
Thanks: 30
Thanked 137 Times in 56 Posts
Default

If they would at least allow carry from home to base locked in the vehicle during the day it would be a good thing.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cracked Cranium For This Useful Post:
Old 11-02-2019, 02:30 PM
NW GUY's Avatar
NW GUY NW GUY is online now
Born 120 years too late.
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,650
Thanks: 106
Thanked 11,666 Times in 2,864 Posts
Default

IT ALWAYS amazed me the difference in how soldiers are perceived...

In country you could be wandering around with enough guns and munitions to allow you to invade a 3rd world country single handed and no one bats an eye.("Why you carrying 10 frags?" "Because I can't fit eleven onto the harness.")

Stateside the same soldier just a month later "What is the length of the blade on that pocket knife soldier? Why you carrying that?" ( a little facetiousness here)
Same person, same uniform, same trust level he has or has not earned...
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to NW GUY For This Useful Post:
Old 11-02-2019, 03:00 PM
InfScout's Avatar
InfScout InfScout is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northeast
Posts: 10,630
Thanks: 19,122
Thanked 33,979 Times in 8,242 Posts
Default

Even though I'm retired, I don't make a habit of going on any base because you never know if they will do a vehicle inspection and I am usually armed. It's not worth the hassle it can cause.

I do remember a trip to West Point while a member in the Blue Knights when we got pulled into the MP station at the front gate. The LT said, most of you are cops so keep your pistols covered and enjoy the evening parade. Nothing more was said. But that was well before 911.

I was in the Army Guard and most cops carried back and forth to base. We were simply requested to keep the weapons in the vehicles and not to take those into the barracks. So we carried onto base without a problem.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to InfScout For This Useful Post:
Old 11-02-2019, 04:44 PM
ForestBeekeeper's Avatar
ForestBeekeeper ForestBeekeeper is online now
off-grid organic farmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: forests of Maine
Posts: 23,682
Thanks: 30,136
Thanked 36,682 Times in 14,469 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
... it specifies that approval must come from the Arming authority on the installation.
That is the Base Commander.

The same phrase is used in all Base Regulations.

I served as Military Police. So I had to study Base Regs frequently.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to ForestBeekeeper For This Useful Post:
Old 11-02-2019, 08:56 PM
Rifleman69 Rifleman69 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Glynco
Posts: 2,206
Thanks: 7,655
Thanked 4,434 Times in 1,331 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
3. Some (maybe most) bases dont respect LEOSA, with MPs having instructions to arrest anyone with a gun, no matter what documentation they have, even if they're law enforcement.

Honestly, I have seen nothing like that and considering the area where I work I half expect it sometimes.



I"m Fed LEO in the DC area, I carry concealed on every installation I drive onto. MCB Quantico yesterday morning. Big sign right at the gate, No concealed weapons, Pulled up to the Marine MP, Showed my Creds, Stated I am carrying concealed, No worries, Your good. stopped in the bank and spent about and hour in the PX and Commissary. Fort Belvoir Octoberfest, Pushing my grandson in a stroller up to the metal detector at the entrance to the Fest. Showed my Creds, Have a nice night Sir, Went around the metal detector and bag check as my wife and daughter in law went thru full screening. Met them on the other side, Wife asked, Are you carrying? Always, So I honestly haven't seen anything like you suggest.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rifleman69 For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net