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Old 06-03-2020, 03:50 PM
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1000 miles sounds like small motorcycle territory!

They don’t make the Honda Trail 90 or 110’s anymore, but something like that would be what I’d be looking into.

Likely take your couple month adventure into a long grueling weekend!

SD
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
I think the chances of walking 1000 miles in SHTF are extraordinary low regardless of your pack or physical condition.

Regardless of wether you are capable of walking 20 miles a day, day after day, remember that you are in a world so dangerous, so disrupted that you have to walk 1000 miles. This means a major, world changing event, full on apocalypse. Millions dead, millions more dying about you.

You will not be walking 20 miles a day in that kind of world. You may be hold up in a culvert all day hiding and then carefully picking your way five miles at a time during the night. There may be days when you don't travel at all. You may spend months at a time waiting out weather, forest fires, regional warfare. You would be very lucky to finish the trip in a year, and being on the road....well, you won't be on the road, you will have to be in the woods and hills to have a chance....being out and about, and trying to move, over that much distance, over that much time....virtually impossible.

Your pack is fine...but it's the least of your worries.
This was my first reaction to the OP.

I have mulled this question over a number of times over the years.

My conclusion has been that, if I cannot get home within 30 days (with my family in tow, if they are with me), then there is no point in trying to go back. At that point, it's better finding a place where you are and making the best of it. There are exceptions to that, depending, but in TEOTWAWKI, unless your BOL is truly remote, no.

Even if you manage to get there, after your arduous 90 day march, it will be looted clean.
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:53 PM
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I did a lot of highway travel in the last yrs before I retired and moved. Most trips I was 1,500 miles away from home. Always drove my old Dodge Cummins pickup, with the aux fuel tank, because it held enough fuel to make it back home.

These days I dont travel as far, but I still carry extra fuel, a get home bag, and a carbine.
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:23 AM
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Even if you manage to get there, after your arduous 90 day march, it will be looted clean.
...you shouldn't leave everything out like that.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:13 AM
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...you shouldn't leave everything out like that.
good point. if you have some caches i suppose you could always count on those. reminds me that i should look into making some.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:18 AM
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good point. if you have some caches i suppose you could always count on those. reminds me that i should look into making some.
"Deep set" and "I ran out of my house nekked, now I'm gonna grab my backup kit and kill those mother****ers" both.


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Old 06-04-2020, 01:40 AM
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OP, I guess I should respond directly, I would say this: if you are dead set on making it home for whatever reason, your 1000 mile get home bag should be set up somewhere between a BOB and INCH in terms of what it needs to cover. Basically it's an INCH bag except you've cut/dropped/removed all the tools and equipment that are designed to build a static camp. For example, you don't need stuff for trapping, because you won't be sticking around anyplace long enough to check a trap. avoid any heavy tools, either find a lightweight replacement or drop it. avoid the temptation to bring a big heavy gun and a lot of ammo. one lightweight carbine and a reasonable amount of ammo, use your best judgement.

assuming you don't get hurt and don't get lost, the biggest problem is probably going to be food. if you are having to go on foot, carrying enough food just to get you through 50 days (walking straight through with 20 mile days and no issues) is going to be hard as heck. surviving on 30lbs of food for 50 days would be lean and hungry even if you were sedentary....imaging living that lean while also slamming down 20 mile hikes day after day after day. and at those speeds you can't waste much time hunting, fishing, or foraging - just targets of opportunity, and only if it's during a productive season.

gear and water weight sans food i figure a minimum bag weight of around 25lbs for a real barebones minimalist kit. add 10lbs for lightweight carbine and 100 rounds. add 30lbs of food. so we are talking a 65lb+ minimum for that kind of trip. no comforts, little/no redundancy, only a minimal first aid kit, no fishing gear, only a basic sleeping setup, barebones mess kit, etc.

food really is going to be the hard problem here because of the length of time we are talking about. if we were talking about bugging in i wouldn't be sweating the food too much at this stage. but there's a world of difference between going a little hungry sitting at home and failing to replace lost energy and electrolytes on the trail. it'll put you on the ground. i know because it's happened to me
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Old 06-04-2020, 11:15 AM
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Definitely more food and water. Always better to be well stocked up.
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Old 06-04-2020, 08:22 PM
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Some thoughts and observations...

1. My route planning factor for military foot patrol movement was ~15 miles per main movement period within a typical 24 hours. Sometimes we'd make more ground. Sometimes less. Terrain, weather, and security conditions dictated actual rate of movement.

This with a small team (2-12 folks) of very physically fit, in-hiking shape, armed males moving discretely (tactically) across rolling temperate woodlands in 3-season weather. With 50-60 pound packs, battle rattle, and weapons. For me, that rule of thumb proved out across 35 years spent in Army SOF.

It isn't really the load that slows your pace... it's the likelihood of getting killed (or spotted) by people you might encounter along your route. Your theoretical maximum physical pace is mostly immaterial. Because you have to move cautiously enough (slower) to stay alive. YMMV.

2. My average water consumption was 3.5 liters per 24 hour period for the above type of climate/terrain. More in high summer deserts or jungle.

3. Walking across deserts in the hot sun is often suicidal. Almost always foolish. Night movements for the win. Far less water consumption, far less sweating, avoidance of heat injuries & sunburn, cooler temperatures, and you are able to make better ground gain for less effort. Dig into the soil and erect shade for sleeping under while the big heat tab is overhead.

4. Wheels can get you across a lot of terrain faster and more efficiently than feet. Whether it's a bicycle or a kick scooter.

5. The odds of a single person being able to conduct a continuously high daily rate of march, 1000 mile foot journey, adhering to roads & trails through a non-permissive landscape... approach zero. Human threats travel along (or sit astride) such routes... and the water sources that they lead to.

Sticking to roads, trails, and predictable watering points pushes you into an ever less survivable Darwinian filter. It's a recipe for disaster. Sooner or later, you're going to get zapped. Murdered, ambushed, robbed, raped, detained, assaulted, taxed, or impeded.

You must be able to move significant distances cross country. To handrail (travelling parallel to but well offset from) roadways. Avoiding people by busting brush. Or taking the most unlikely path on the next leg of your route. Avoiding man-made or natural lines of drift when possible & practical. Incorporating unpredictability into your route planning. Able to carry enough water to widely bypass obvious replenishment points. Predators hunt watering holes. If it's the most obvious water resupply feature on the map... it's the most dangerous place on the map.

6. There's a tendency on the part of most preppers to envision events playing out under fair skies, dry ground, and ideal seasonal conditions. It's a form of normalcy bias. You need to be capable of functioning year round, not just under ideal conditions. 1000 miles of winter snows foot movement is a whole 'nother animal. So is torrential, chilling rain...while trying to walk through mud.

Which is just a roundabout means of saying that you can't handle all conditions with what's carried in little bitty packs. My 365 day per year standard Army SF patrol pack was generally a 62 liter Large ALICE ruck during my time in service. Or an equally large Lowe Alpine model. Those big ticks had additional external pouches attached as well. During winter conditions, that sized pack was often replaced by something even larger. Because you needed the extra internal volume in order to carry the stuff that kept you from freezing to death or coming down with hypothermia. While moving on skis or snow shoes for weeks at a time.

7. Settlers with animal drawn wagons (carrying all their supplies) took about 4-6 months to travel the 2000 mile Oregon/California Trails. Missouri to western Oregon & California. 10-20 miles gained per day with animals hauling the load. Conestoga wagons of the old west would average 10-15 miles per day. Everyone walking (unladen) along side of those wagons and animals. Modern day Pacific Crest and Appalachian Trail hikers average 16-17 miles per day across the months of required travel. A routine 20+ miles per day is possible for in-shape hikers already well along such a trek. But they're doing a recreational challenge, with no significant human threat, and readily available resupply/retreat points.

Walking 1000 miles through an end-of-the-world-party... you won't have any of that. And there might be days where you're lucky to make a few miles. Or any at all (halted by weather, obstacles, or human threats). Much less 20.

8. Extra underwear are merely more sweat stained, bacteria laden rags to wear against your body. Plus they constitute a laundering chore. Go commando. Better ventilation and hygiene. More pairs of quality hiking socks instead.

9. I know we all like to envision backups for the gun fights in our mind. But on a 1000 mile hike with no ready mail-drop resupply points... a second pair of well fitting hiking boots would be more valuable than a second handgun. You might not ever fire a shot. But that first pair of boots is going to wear out before you get to the end of the journey.

10. Never say never. If you really believe you can do it... you can. Especially with a well thought out plan and some decent gear.
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Old 06-04-2020, 08:35 PM
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Excerpt the commando part.
Some of us need a suspension system.
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
GO TO the local airfield.
Take 3 or 4 lessons until they let you solo.
learn the basics of flying.
That way you may have alternate choices instead of having to WALK 1000 miles.
This maybe starts to drift a bit off topic, as it started with bag weight. But it's really about how to make it 1000 miles.

Yeah, I was sort of thinking of suggesting that. The problem also becomes the plane. Though even if it's an EMP event, there's plenty of older style airplanes that should still start just fine. In fact, it's probably true that even newer ones would be fine. Most use typical recip engines. They have electrical systems and magnetos, but those should still work fine after an EMP because they're not really electronic. That is, it's just a battery and the mags should still fire a spark plug. Maybe none of the avionics would work, but unless you know how to use that stuff, you'd only be flying in nice weather and by compass anyway. (And if you only had a few lessons, you better not even think of taking anything past a 152/172, maybe a Piper Archer. Anything else, you're probably going to die for a whole list of reasons.)

Then the other issue is that of theft. If you're doing things right, you're not going to be stealing aircraft. And of course, you might get shot if you try. But... if the situation is lots of bodies lying around after something and you just somehow survived, then maybe ok if the stuff is just abandoned in a land of zombies or whatever.

Note that your typical light plane with full fuel will get you maybe 700 - 800 (statute) miles at maybe 120 - 140 mph, depending on wind. (Some a bit more or less.) In short, if you throw a folding bike in the back, (a full size likely won't fit in the door), you could be home in 1-3 days.

Overall though, even the simple planes if you don't really become a proficient pilot you do have a pretty good shot and ending up in a rolled up ball of aluminum, whether it's on fire or not.
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Old 06-04-2020, 10:34 PM
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Some of us need a suspension system.
Some of us need Crotch Rot way less. Mobility kill just as bad as a sprained ankle.

Plus, tight briefs interfere with using my tackle for a monopod rest at halts...
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Old 06-04-2020, 10:46 PM
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Pt shorts dry quick.

And you should take a knee, being that low to the ground prohibits Marines from using the Tripod stance!
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Old 06-04-2020, 11:23 PM
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I agree with nylon military pt shorts.

The old 70s/80s style running briefs (still called "Ranger Panties" in the Army) are one of the few extra clothing items I carry year round in a pack. Featherweight and durable. Ideal for hiking in hot or wet weather, for opportunity swimming or water crossings, or just camp/sleep wear while main layers of wet clothing dry out. Even in winter.
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Old 06-04-2020, 11:28 PM
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We called em Ranger panties (or silkies) in the Corps too.

Much gayer looking than UDT'S, but I buy a couple extra sets every year still.

Silkies though, the issue Ones suck.
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Old 06-04-2020, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Astronomy View Post
Some of us need Crotch Rot way less. Mobility kill just as bad as a sprained ankle.

Plus, tight briefs interfere with using my tackle for a monopod rest at halts...
I learned the hard way that can be damn near crippling.

I looked into it and what happens is you get micro tears in your skin when it gets hot and wet and chafes which leaks out intercellular fluid and supports a topical yeast infection, and the yeast bioproducts cause inflammation and pain.

Clotrimizale cream cures it in a couple hours or can be used prolifically. I have a tube in all my bags.
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Old 06-05-2020, 03:18 PM
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Yes indeedily. That stuff can break out severely in mere hours and reduce anyone to hobbling along and crying tears.

I too carry trail medication. Usually anti-fungal powder (for athlete's foot & jock itch). Applied to both my feet and nethers. Sometimes the cream, which adheres better in soaking wet conditions.

It's the little things that can kill a foot movement. We all like to worry about treating combat wounds with trauma kits. But it's the more common injury stuff that can bring you to a halt. You're usually more likely to take a twisting fall, ingest bad food/water, or scuff yourself up on the local terrain... than to be shot.

Dislocations, sprains, muscle pulls, torn tendons/ligaments, slipped discs, infected cuts, blisters, dysentery, minor fractures, eye pokes, & skin problems (rashes, stings, contact plant poisons, etc.).

Things like OTC topical medicines, ace wraps, and an instant ice pack being of more likely utility than a rarely needed pressure dressing, chest seal, tourniquet, or hemostatic gauze pack.
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Old 06-05-2020, 04:39 PM
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Some of us need Crotch Rot way less. Mobility kill just as bad as a sprained ankle.
I've found the Ex Officio briefs just about perfect for hot/humid hikes. These are southeastern summer hikes where the humidity or rain keeps you pretty much soaked all day. I don't get crotch rot, but if your drawers stay soaked, you will get a rash eventually. The beauty is I just take one pair after 8-10 hours on the trail, I will rinse and hang them out to dry and they dry in just a few hours.

I also carry my Ranger Panties to sleep in and wear if needed.

If you have the balls (pun intended), I do have a Mountain Hardware hiking kilt that I used on one trip. While the psychological challenge is really the only hurdle, they are surprisingly effective, but I would limit the bushwhacking...err, ball-whacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
And you should take a knee, being that low to the ground prohibits Marines from using the Tripod stance!
What do Marines use for the third leg, I'm assuming it's inserted in the hole between their legs? I was told it was an M4 because of the adjustable stock for different heights, be we know Marines don't like carbines!

ROCK6
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